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What's with the name?

Allow us to explain.

Holy Rusted Metal Batman!

[UPDATED] Warner Bros. Announcing Superman/Batman Live-Action Team-Up Film For 2015, Flash In 2016, Justice League In 2017


I think it’s safe to say this news couldn’t wait for our “While You Were Sleeping” roundup tomorrow. 

Just before the big Warner Bros. panel, news started seeping out of a huge announcement. According to LA Times’ Hero Complex, the follow-up to Man of Steel is going to include Batman.

Yes, it’s finally happening. A live-action Superman and Batman together on the big screen.

Henry Cavill will continue his role and Zack Snyder will direct but we know Christian Bale will no longer be suiting up as the Dark Knight so a new actor will have to be chosen to play opposite him.

The Hollywood Reporter added there are tentative plans for a Flash film in 2016, pushing back Justice League to 2017. Previously the team film was set for a 2015 release but word was the script wasn’t all that great so it’s probably for the best they’re waiting.

Just this past week, DC Entertainment President Diane Nelson spoke about how “tricky” a Wonder Woman film would be to make but it’s disappointing to not have an announcement on that front and especially disappointing to hear the Flash will get his own film before Princess Diana. However, The CW’s Amazon remains in development.

More to come as we hear it…

[UPDATE] At first it looked like the panel was going to come and go with no word on this news but at the very end, Snyder took the stage. He’s officially making another Superman movie. Actor Harry Lennix (General Swanwick) appeared and said, “I want you to remember, Clark, in all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember your hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you,” (from The Dark Knight Returns) and a Superman/Batman logo came on the big screens. Snyder said they weren’t doing an adaptation but that The Dark Knight Returns would help them tell the story. David S. Goyer will be writing.

Previously in San Diego Comic-Con

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  • http://zacshipley.com/ Zac Shipley

    I sincerely hope if the CW series gets off the ground they can bring that Diana up from TV for movie appearances. Same with Oliver Queen in Arrow.

    I’m no huge Smallville or Welling fan, but I thought it was ridiculous they didn’t stop that show at season 4 or 5 and then promote him to Superman movies.

    Marvel is just getting around to SHIELD on TV, if they use Oliver Queen from Arrow, then DC can boast they did the movie/TV universe thing first.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Wow @_@ So a batman/superman, a flash and a justice league movie announced, all a year apart, starting in 2015…Awesome!

    To those annoyed by the lack of an awesome sauce wonder woman film though, DC has a track record of doing telavision things much better than they do film and they have pulled off some pretty awesome tv shows based on their heroes so there is hope for a wonder woman tv show outshining any silly ol movie

  • Laura Truxillo

    Meh. Kind of a resounding Meh.

    Wonder Woman is “tricky” but pairing an invincible alien with a regular human in live action on the big screen is simpler? Sure.

    Three years ago I would’ve been giddy for the Flash movie, but I don’t want to see the Reboot Rogues getting to the public on the big screen. Unless word comes down that Neil Patrick Harris is playing James Jesse, I’m still kind of just…meh.

  • Anonymous

    This could probably save the writers time by introducing the new Batman here first and not a Justice League film. Since I highly doubt they’re gonna continue Nolan’s story and use JGL as the new Batman.

  • BatiHoney

    I’m so excited I could cry, oh my god. Can’t wait to know who will be playing Batman. I was never a fan of Bale’s Batman, but I am definitely a fan of Cavill’s Superman, so if everything goes well, this should be pretty awesome. Finally Bats is getting a friend! sort of. Besides, since Henry Cavill is huge and Batman is supposed almost as huge as he is (the picture of this article is the proof. Superman is just a little bit bigger), then they will have to choose someone alike, body-wise.

    I don’t think it’ll happen, but since this movie will feature a different Batman and a different universe, I… will just pray they add Robin. They totally should and then they can do a Teen Titans movie later on, come on… just give me my Dick Grayson and take advantage of the plots involving the Robins :( (how awesome would it be to bring Red Hood to the screen? come on) they are new stories to bring to the big screen, and they will give Batman a different twist as kind of a paternal figure instead of the depressing loner he always is. It probably won’t happen, but I want to believe…

    Now, I’m wondering how a The Flash movie can be a better deal than a Wonder Woman movie. Flash’s origin story is not all that exciting and he’s a pretty regular guy. Diana is a freakin AMAZON PRINCESS AND WARRIOR who even interacts with GREEK GODS and just… I’m totally cool and excited for a The Flash movie, but there is no way it can be more exciting or movie-able than a WW one. DC, you disappoint me but at least you’re finally doing instead of talking about doing something (or I hope so, I have to wait and see if they actually start to do anything).

    I still think they should introudice more DC characters before JLA movie, but oh well… this is more than I expected. My heart flutters.

  • Will Beaty

    WB doesn’t have the balls to do even one Rogue. They’re not “realistic.” It’ll be Thawne or maybe Cold by himself. How depressing is the thought of Nolanized Rogues?

    Meanwhile, Barry Allen and Hal Jordan will have their own movies before Wonder Woman.

  • BatiHoney

    Ah, and mixed feelings about the idea of having Arrow’s Oliver in the movies. Very mixed.

  • Anonymous

    Justice League will never happen. The Bricken prophesized it as a Topless Roboteer. So has it been, so shall it be. Whose responsible this?

  • Ashe

    ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssSNAP

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    I’m pleased to see some DC Cinematic Universe action… but without any positive mention of Wonder Woman, it all feels so lacking. There’s just no good excuse.

  • Thomas Hayes

    My Dad will be pleased to hear they’re doing Flash, he loved the character in the 70s. But they’ll have to make a Wonder Woman film to get my mum in the cinema…

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Regarding the part about the flash movie, I think he is getting his own flick BECAUSE he is a pretty regular guy. I mean, his origin story is that he was some sorta scientist (usually forensics) who sticks to a specific city and tries to save the day. His powerset is super speed which can be pulled off with bullet time and frankly, it takes less effort (and more importantly less money) to pull off an awesome Flash movie. (no offense to the awesome hero)

    I would imagine possible cost is one of the more tangible factors involved in the lack of a wonder woman film. alongside: past failings, the odd ‘Wonder Woman is difficult’ stigma, and the market failings of greek god based films like ‘clash of the titans’ which could possibly be a factor. For some reason studios seem more wary of fantasy movies in the past decade than they are of sci fi.

  • Anonymous

    So will it be two and a half hours of Supes and Bats trying to out-emo each other? ;)

  • Pomfelo

    Agreed. I’ve always maintained that Snyder is an excellent *cinematographer.* When it comes to putting images together as a cohesive vision, he’s kind of blah.

  • MeatyStakes

    Did they say Wonder Woman? No? Go jump back into your mother DC

  • TheChief

    I suppose they could also do Gorilla Grodd. Though for the first movie I do see Cold as the more likely villain.

  • TKS

    With this whole “A Wonder Woman movie seems so harrrrd” business, Warner Bros seems to be a little ashamed of their DC IPs being from comic books. In their movies, they try so hard to take all comic book influences out of their movies. Nolan’s and Burton’s Batman movies tried so hard to not look like a comic book movie.

    It seemed like Man of Steel tried to do the same thing. They didn’t want to feel like a comic book movie, they wanted to feel like a “realistic” and “gritty” movie. Why? Are you THAT ashamed of making a comic book movie that you’ll shoehorn Superman into an aesthetic that just flat out doesn’t work for him?

    I think that’s one reason why they think a Wonder Woman movie is “hard.” She was made out of clay, wears a spangly swimsuit, and catches criminals with a rope that makes them tell the truth. How can you do that while making it “realistic?”

    Marvel is guilty of this off and on, depending on who the director is, but I think they are better about not being ashamed of their comic bookiness. They couldn’t have made Thor or Avengers without the comic book aesthetic. Hell, the scenes from Avengers with The Other and The Other’s big purple boss look like Kirby or Buscema panel.

    That’s just my theory.

  • TKS

    half an hour of “BUT MAH PARENTS ARE DEAAAAD!”

  • TKS

    300 must have killed him. No room for pouches.

  • Anonymous

    It’s really embarassing how calculable Warners is: It’s all exactly as I thought it would happen. Now we are back in 2002 when Wolfgang Petersen proposed an SM/BM-team up movie (and was rejected in favor of J.J. Abrams “Man of Steel” which was then itself turned into Bryan Singers “Superman returns”). So Warners is absolutely not willing to risk anything. Well, I just feel as if I should just ignore Warners Superhero movies just to give them the pressure to dare sth.. As long as they get through with the umpteenths Superman / Batman movie they will just do that.

    And while I’m still angry that “Wonder Woman”, the third-biggest hero DC has, is still in development since 2003 (!!!!!) I’m not even sure if they will have really the balls to do “Flash” or “Justice League”. Last I read they were considering a “Batman Beyond” movie for 2015.

    There’s a certain temptation here to bring up some very colourful expressions concerning Warners but I try to control myself. They are not learning. They are not willing to dare something. They should be punished by the cinemagoers for this attitude!

  • Patrick Bayard

    Wow! ANOTHER FILM featuring Superman and/or Batman…why not both? This is beyond belief. Not only that they are going to piss away their MOST SUCCESSFUL version of Batman and reboot him in the middle of a franchise. But already just minutes after announcing it, critics are making fun of the Superman/Batman logo unveiled at comic-con not to mention the huge plot hole that it creates namely “where was Batman during the events of Man of Steel?”

    I don’t see how this ends well!

  • Thomas Hayes

    It looks like he’ll be co-writing the story too alongside Goyer on this one. I don’t think this is a great sign, even though I like him when he’s in the Director’s chair.

  • http://QueenOfTheInterwebs.com/ Chelsii

    Batman was getting pissed at Superman for destroying his satellite.

  • Nick Gaston

    So…thirty Quatloos says they cancel at least one of these in the next year. Ten says all of them within the next two and a half.

  • Mina

    It’s…..a step in the direction of what I want, but it’s not really there. We’ll see how this goes.

  • Laura Truxillo

    But…but the Rogues are LITERALLY supposed to be “realistic.” Ish. They don’t have superpowers (except, well, Piper and kinda Weather Wizard), they’re all science based.

    Or maybe we could just, y’know, have a fun movie with fun characters. Why does WB think every hero should be Nolanized anyway? If they’re trying to keep up with Avengers, they did notice that aside from Tony being Science Guy, they pretty much threw realism right out the window and went for fun, right?

    Argh, I just don’t get how Wonder Woman is tricky, but Thor and Captain America were so very simple.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I see them going for Reverse Flash, really. He’s supposed to be menacing and scary, but really, he’ll always be the loser who went back in time to make Barry Allen miss a baseball catch.

    Len is my favorite Rogue, but he really can’t hold an entire movie to himself. Best would be Grodd as a primary villain with Len as the Complicator. Defeat Len, but don’t take him out of play. Have Grodd create Zoom (the Zolomon one, not Thawne, let’s leave time travel out of this) at the end of the first movie (like, Zoom’s actual creation is the sting, perhaps). Second movie, bring in Mirror Master (he’s pretty scary) and probably Heatwave (taken out quick and relocated to Iron Heights within the first half hour, if that. Could even be the opening action). Possibly throw-away mentions of other Rogues. Zoom and MM are the primaries, end with Zoom being “frozen” and MM being in Iron Heights. Sting is Cold talking to Mick and Evan (or Sam, but let’s face it, Evan’s scarier). Third movie is the Rogues, with Zoom making a comeback, and the Rogues actually making a stand against him (and getting taken down, but probably helping Barry in the process).

    Curtain.

  • Laura Truxillo

    My thoughts exactly, and this BLOWS MY MIND, because shoot, Marvel’s best (most profitable) movies are the ones that are unashamedly comic-book-y. And they know that just because you can play Iron Man realistically doesn’t mean you need to do that for Thor, and so on.

    I’ve noticed it in the books of late too–Marvel seems to realize that having dozens of titles means you can tell dozens of flavors of story, ranging from gritty and serious to light and funny.

  • Laura Truxillo

    “BECAUSE he is a pretty regular guy.”

    Boring. The word you’re looking for is “boring.” Unless we’re talking about Wally. Or Bart. Or Jay. But they won’t give us those.

  • Ross Van Loan

    My parents are dead.

    Nice try, Bruce. Get back to me when your home-world explodes.

  • Jamie Jeans

    Ouch dude! That burn was so hot *I* need treatment!

  • Jamie Jeans

    So… the Flash, Batman/Superman, and Justice League, but NO Wonder Woman… because hey, Wonder Woman is… ‘tricky.’

    So lets make a bet… who else will get a movie before Wonder Woman? I’m betting that given DC’s track record in how they treat the third member of their Trinity, that either Aquaman or the Wonder Twins will get a movie before Wonder Woman does.

    Hell, people, a PORN COMPANY making a PORN PARODY of Diana actually put more time, money, and effort into making the costume, and they made the crappy New-52 costume and they made it work.

    A PORN COMPANY is putting more effort into making a Wonder Woman movie than DC Comics is!

  • BatiHoney

    THIS. I hate how DC seems to be ashamed of their own work and refuses to do a comic book-ish movie. What I loved about The Avengers is that it felt like a freaking comic book. I like Man of Steel, but it was so dark and ansgty and there weren’t vibrant colors or fun at all. Come one, have some respect for your characters and where they come from. Fun =/= Low Quality… and Dark =/= Quality.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Well to be fair, a wonder twins movie would be pretty awesome. Jana would totally kick ass~

  • BatiHoney

    Thanks for your reply! Here’s my answer:

    Even if it is cheaper to do, why go for something cheaper after everything they probably spent on Man of Steel? Especially since now the expectatives are higher. And let’s be clear, Man of Steel wasn’t Marvel-awesome, but it was good enough that people are willing to see where DC is going with this. I went out of the cinema thinking I’d like to see a sequel, but nowhere near as excited as I wanted to. And that’s what I’ve read people on the internet say, in general, as well.

    Now, I don’t agree it “takes less effort”. Flash is such a regular and simple guy that I think it’d be even more difficult to pull off an EPIC movie with him. Not impossible, but more difficult. So it’s going to take a really great vision and script to make an entertaining movie out of it. WW is easier when it comes to epicness.

    Past failings or not, there is no excuse for a WW movie. The first Hulk movie was bad, they made a better one. The Superman movies had been very bad, or so people tell me because I have not watched them. They still made Man of Steel. WW doesn’t have a failing in the big screen because she has not had the chance to even have a movie.

    About the Greek god based films… Clash of Titans, although hilariously bad, did well enough to have a sequel, Wrath of Titans, which was slightly better in the sense that I didn’t laugh so much, but still earned 302 million worldwide. They’re making a third one. Immortals earned 226 millionsworldwide (and that one was SO BAD and gross and badly written I wanted to leave the theater).

    Percy Jackson & The Lightning Thief also made around 226 millions and its sequel comes out this year. A good and fun family movie, not so good of an adaption, although the second one seems SO MUCH BETTER but holding judgement for now. My point is, as bad as they have been, they were not failings?? A lot of people are willing to go see greek gods epicness even if they writing is bad because sadly they love the action. I hated Immortals but my dad liked it a lot. So, if we are talking about making money, Greek Gods + WW = jackpot.

    Seems to me like DC is just so focused on being realistic and gritty, and they consider greek gods to be too fantastic for them. They need to put their shit together.

  • BatiHoney

    I don’t dislike Barry, but having grown up with Wally and seeing how he’s the funny guy from the JLA, I wish it was him instead…

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Not to poke holes or anything, but personally ‘Thor’ didn’t feel like the comic book to me. I mean, they dropped the ‘cursed in the form of a cripple and becomes a surgeon’ plotline, they toned down his Shakespearean speak, they kept throwing around lines about science and magic being the same thing and the fights were decidedly less awesome than one might see in the thor comics. It was very….toned down with a desperate groping for realism.

  • Mandy

    YES this. Vistually he does gorgeous work. Storytelling….I run way hot and cold on him.

  • BatiHoney

    At some point, dark, gritty and Nolan became synonymous with quality but I was in the bathroom or something and I missed that announcement.

    Truth is that since Nolan’s Batman was so successful, they probably want to play it safe

    Of course, this is ridiculous. I have wondered the same thing, why don’t they just learn from The Avengers? It is not so hard, WB. You want money? Stop trying so hard to be emo-angsty and depressing so maybe kids will be able to see your movies. (I went to see The Avengers 3 times and TDKR once and I regret just that one)

    Dark and gritty just gets old so fast…

  • Mandy

    Yes. DC needs to jump off the grim dark gritty train ASAP. Just because Batman can pull it off, doesn’t mean you need to do the same tone for ALL your other superheroes. IMO the tone and look of a Batman movie should not be the same as the look of Superman and then Wonder Woman should again be different in look from both of them!

  • Mandy

    But then Supes had holograph Jor-El randomly hanging around for like 1/2ths of his movie giving advice. So he at least got to or can still see his Dad. Batman didn’t get that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    I agree that storywise, Flash is actually much more of a challenge than Wonder Woman, but with the people who need to be sold on these movies, they would probably look at things like ‘how much will it cost to show X thing happening’ which while ridiculous, is how things seem to work in hollywood for some baffling reason.

    The same sorta logic channel Sci-Fi uses when they cancel tv shows like Euerka and Warehouse 13 to replace them with reality shows. Reality shows cost less to make with actual content taking a back seat for finance numbers.

    Depending on the writers and the actor they get though, Flash could potentially outdo Man of Steel. Would need to be pretty awesome though.

    According to box office numbers, the first two superman movies were actually successes, it was the latter two that were panned by audiences.

    And while frustratingly, Wonder Woman has not gotten a chance at film yet (unlike Supergirl and Catwoman) She did get that terrible recent TV Pilot that bombed which people against the risk are quite possibly using as ammunition against the idea.

    *facepalm* I had to look that up because I couldn’t believe that terrible film had not one but two sequels >_>
    Titans seemed so universally horribly received and I saw so many surprisingly negative reviews of Percy Jackson that I honestly did not realize they were successes ^^;

    But yeah, ‘realism’ is another annoying factor. Though Marvel has also been frustratingly bad about it
    Thor the norse god: Whaaaat? Magiiic? Nooo~ We don’t do magic! Its all SCIENCE! Why would you think a norse god of thunder banished to earth and hunting for a hammer to restore his powers would have anything to do with magic?! Its science!
    Though it isn’t like Wonder Woman lacks ideas on the non magic spectrum to draw from. Heck, in the comics she has through various incarnations: Lost all of her powers, lost amazon island (twice) Lost the amazons, had all the greek gods killed, became a disgusting psychopathic nutter who needed superman to keep her from killing all men (bleep do I hope they don’t consider that version)

    Sigh…After that first half hour of Man of Steel showing Krypton, they should be able to do a good fantastic wonder woman movie. However, I am struggling to think of any fantasy movie outside of a tolkien book that was given a budget that is even half of what the recent Superman and batman trilogy have received.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Hey~ At least Snyder can do feet! Not near as good as Tarantino, but…

  • Anonymous

    300 and Sucker Punch were all I needed to know/see. Ugh.

  • BatiHoney

    I did know some Superman movies were god but others were bad but I honestly don’t know how many are there and which one is which. Point is apparently people had lost hope in a Superman movie, but there we go.

    Wow Supergirl had a movie? The more you know. The WW pilot thing is just an excuse, of course… not the first pilot to fail and it won’t be the last.

    The Greek Mythology movies were BAD and had negative reviews, but they did well on the box office! Which is what companies want more than anything, so…

    I haven’t read the Thor comics but I did read your comment on it way up in the article. Yeah, they toned it down, but I just think comic book Thor may have been just TOO cheesy for the big screen, and toned it down so it would be taken more seriously. Of course I think the idea of the nordic gods being from another planet? and science? and all that is silly, but it is something I can overlook… point is, if Marvel made Thor, why can’t DC make WW? Greek Mythology is not as complicated as Nordic Mythology, please. And, as you say, so many storylines to choose…

    Did the Narnia movies get a good budget? I think they are wonderful fantasy movies…

  • BatiHoney

    I don’t know, I loved Sucker Punch.

  • Brett W

    And all of those changes helped the film rather than hindered it.

  • Brett W

    There’s nothing wrong with drama and gravitas. Nothing wrong with taking your characters seriously. In fact, I’d say that when you have a character who’s as iconic as Superman, he deserves to be taken seriously. Not every hero has to be as jokey as Tony Stark.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Well if you ignore popularity and just look at box office numbers, all of the superman films did well. (Heck, superman returns made back double the money put into the thing)
    Same with Hulk which despite being panned by critics and audiences, actually did make a profit for Marvel.

    Oh yeah. The original Superman movies were doing really REALLY well, and there were plans to do a spin-off featuring Supergirl. The original script called for supergirl coming to earth shortly before Superman vanishes and the heroine stepping up to fill his shoes and eventually rescue superman from the villian behind his capture.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergirl_%28film%29 But between the actor for Superman stepping away from the role and a number of the crew being replaced, it got some….pretty terrible rewrites that turned it into a weird romance about supergirl coming to earth from argo city in searched of a kryptonian energy source and forgetting about that to become a college student and compete with a witch for the affection of a dude in distress
    it was…awkward.
    A shame too, because the original script was four kinds of awesome.

    The nature of hollywood is so sad T_T

    My point is that hollywood is seemingly convinced that fantasy is a risk and i shudder to imagine the Greek gods as little green men due to some stupid hollywood logic ^^;

    Oh I forgot about those flicks…Actually, the three Narnia films thus far had a budget double that of lord of the rings (560 million dollars) Despite that though, lord of the rings made twice what Narnia did. (Despite that though, both series were great financial and critical successes)

    To make a great wonder woman film though, I think they would need to embrace some of the cheese in wonder womans story and get a writer who isn’t afraid to go epic and over the top with settings and scenes.

    It might sound odd but I personally hope they do not get to caught up with the ‘greek myth’ basis of Wonder Woman’s story because hollywood execs somehow translate that to ‘lets copy a classic great tale and put our own characters over it while butchering both the movie and the source material’

  • Laura Truxillo

    I feel like I’m alone in strongly disliking the look of his movies–they always look oily. Like the lens was dirty or the movie takes place in a world where everything has a thin film of oil and the lighting fixtures always have at least one lightbulb out. Even the camera motion seems weirdly slick.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Same here. Avengers at least 3 times (and one of those was in 3D, which I hardly ever do–my glasses make it wonky. It didn’t really improve the experience, but I liked it so much the first two times I was willing to chance it). TDKR…

    Oh, Dark Knight Returns.

    I just remember at some point about an hour or so into the movie having the conscious thought of: “I’m not having fun.” I kept *waiting* to enjoy the movie, but the only times I did were during Hathaway-dominated scenes, and as soon as those were over, I was back to…not fun.

    And then afterwards, the more I thought about the movie, the angrier it made me. I actually got into fights with coworkers who loved it because dangit, that movie really just makes me furious. There is so much about it that DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. I don’t care what magic science and plot devices you throw at me, just MAKE SURE THE PEOPLE ACT LIKE HUMAN BEINGS. Not chess pieces that you move from here to here because the script needs this person to be doing this thing now. At no point in that movie does anyone have a believable motivation for anything they do beyond, “the script said it would be more dramatic if I did this thing now.”

    Alfred. That is all.

  • Laura Truxillo

    But not every hero should be as grim as Bruce Wayne either. Superman is a character of idealism, of hope, and of love. If you’re too ashamed to make a bright-eyed movie about Truth and Justice, then you have no business making a Superman movie.

  • Laura Truxillo

    ” they toned down his Shakespearean speak,”

    I thought they got Kenneth Branagh as director specifically because he’s made his bones doing Shakespeare as an actor and a director; I thought they really managed to get a true Shakespearean feeling from the movie–the plot twists, the humor, the villainy–without as much of the “forsoothing” that people thing populated the plays.

    Science=magic isn’t that far removed from comicbooks. It’s standard geekery, really–”any sufficiently advanced tech…” and all that. The magic as done by Asgardians still looked like magic.

    And the Donald Blake story….yeah, I can see that just not working for mainstream audiences. Heck, last I remember (and I don’t know much about Thor), wasn’t Blake just a head locked in an endless lotus-eater dream because Thor ISN’T connected to him anymore? There was just something always mildly unsettling about the whole “taking over another guy’s life” aspect, IMHO.

    I dunno, different folks see it different ways, but Thor sure had more fun with itself than most DC flicks these days.

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    Oh yeah. The original Superman movies were doing really REALLY well, and
    there were plans to do a spin-off featuring Supergirl. The original
    script called for supergirl coming to earth shortly before Superman
    vanishes and the heroine stepping up to fill his shoes and eventually
    rescue superman from the villian behind his capture.

  • BatiHoney

    You are me then! I left the movie theater feeling so disappointed… so much whitewashing, unnecessary violence/gritty stuff for the sake of saying “look how bad Bane is and look how everything is so gritty and cruel and therefore so cool” to then lose all credibility when white Talia was revealed to be the villain… not to mention Nolan made OCs out of the two villains.

    Like you, I didn’t enjoy it at all. I felt angry and hopeless and just waited until Batman inevitably won (not sure how he survived)… jesus, just the way his back healed. Man.

    And Anne was amazing, but she killed like nobody’s business and the Catwoman I know has the same no-kill rule as Batman. The Catwoman I know wouldn’t be the one to bring Batman to Bane ,and thus his doom (In the comic the movie is based on, she actually shots Bane down, which just makes me angrier at Nolan), and just… no. And yet, her and Alfred were my favorite part in the movie.

    I won’t even get into my feelings for what Nolan pulled with John Blake. So glad Batman is being rebooted.

  • BatiHoney

    There’s nothing wrong, but you gotta do it with the character it feels right. Batman is one, and yet, I personally feel they go overboard.

    And making a movie all dark and gritty is not the same as taking your characters seriously. Since you use Tony Star as example.. I am pretty sure Marvel takes Tony Stark seriously. And Thor, and Cap. And yet, they are light, colorful movies. They have dark moments, funny moments, serious moments that are funny, and just a variety. They have drama and comedy, action and dialogue. I felt like Man of Steel was in the same mood throughout the movie, and it didn’t vary very much. Clark didn’t need to be jokey, but as Laura said, he’s a symbol of many good, positive things, and non-depressing or non-nostalgic or dark moments would have been nice. Man of Steel lacked character interaction (I left feeling like I didn’t know the characters very well) and non-dramatic scenes (if there were, they were very few. I’d say the closest thing was Zor-El guiding Lois through the spaceship, that was funny. More stuff like that would have been nice). That doesn’t make it bad! I liked it, I want more.

    But thinking about Supes should make me happy, not sad. I just remember the super sad and depressing moments of the movie when I see his face.I hope the sequel changes that.

  • BatiHoney

    No wonder I didn’t know that Supergirl movie. I think everyone pretends it doesn’t exist or something.

    Fantasy may be risky, but that’s the thing about DC. They don’t take risks…and that’s frustrating. Fantasy has proven to success and to fail, so it’s not about the fantasy, it’s how you do it. Just do it. If you can do aliens, you can do Greek gods. e_e

    With superheroes, cheese is necessary. It just needs the right amount. The greek gods don’t even need to APPEAR in a WW movie. Just the amazons, and the fact that, yeah, these gods exist and give her her powers. That’s all. They need a writer who believes in WW, it shouldn’t be that hard…I too do not want them to hold on to her greek basis.

  • Brett W

    Idealism =/= sunshine and sweetness. Idealism says “the world is crap, but we can make it better”. Man of Steel captures that I think.

  • Brett W

    Something else to consider is that this is Superman’s first week on the job. Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that. And I think great triumph is born of great sadness. The events of the film will force the character to grow and evolve. And introducing a force like Batman into his world will force him to grow and evolve further still.

  • Anonymous

    Be still my beating heart…

  • Anonymous

    So they’ve planned movies up until 2017 and Wonder Woman is nowhere to be seen. And that’s ignoring that if those previous movies don’t do well, Justice League isn’t going to happen.

    Okay Marvel, you have 4 years to beat DC and release a female led superhero movie. Being the only one on the block should guarantee a hit.

  • Brett W

    Maybe that’s what they’re holding off on, waiting for Marvel to take the plunge first. Then if Marvel’s superheroine does well, Wonder Woman will be green-lighted.

  • Ross Van Loan

    Sucker Punch was the poster child for pretentious movie making.

  • Ross Van Loan

    Bruce, call the Geek Squad! My dad’s crashed again. grumble, grumble…Stupid Krypton Space Ghost operators manual’s around here somewhere.

  • Ross Van Loan

    Four hundred thousand Quatloos says the dreaded power of Inertia will carry a terribly serious cascade of films all the way down to Ambush Bug & Super Horse.

  • Ross Van Loan

    The reason that you didn’t know that a Supergirl (1984) movie exists is that it is ignored as it’s terrible.

  • Amanda Murray

    What Laura said, though I’d like to add that they chose to eliminate secret identities in general. Everyone in the movies is out as a superhero, because I think everyone’s a little tired of the secret identity trope, and possibly because it was their way of saying they were never going to do Civil War.

  • Amanda Murray

    They wouldn’t be the first to do it. Not only has SHIELD been announced, it’ll be on TV in a few months. There’s no way DC could throw out a shitty movie that quickly just so they could call ‘first’.

  • http://www.thenerdybird.com/ Jill Pantozzi

    I actually really love the Supergirl movie. Helen Slater was a great Supergirl.

  • Anonymous

    It seems like DC is determined to squander the audience they’ve built with the various Animated Series at every turn.

  • http://zadl.org/ Captain ZADL

    COMPOSITE SUPERMAN!

  • Laura Truxillo

    I missed the point where I said anything about sunshine and sweetness. Idealism isn’t “the world is crap, but we can make it better” because *idealism* doesn’t start with the thought “the world is crap.” Idealism is “this is a good world, and we can prove that.” “These are good people, and we can bring out the best in them.”

    Batman is about the world being crap but trying to make a difference. Superman shouldn’t take that same track, not just because it doesn’t fit his character, but because it’s BORING to give both characters a similar mindset.

    You could tell they were ashamed of how idealistic and hopeful Superman is by just looking at the color palette for the movie. Grim, dark, oily tones for everything, including the hero.

    There is nothing WRONG with “the world is crap, but we can make it better.” There’s nothing wrong with doing a grim, dark hero whose life is hard and horrible and who rises above it. That’s a great story. It’s not the only story, and it sure shouldn’t be Clark’s story.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I missed the point where I said anything about sunshine and sweetness. Idealism isn’t “the world is crap, but we can make it better” because *idealism* doesn’t start with the thought “the world is crap.” Idealism is “this is a good world, and we can prove that.” “These are good people, and we can bring out the best in them.”

    Batman is about the world being crap but trying to make a difference. Superman shouldn’t take that same track, not just because it doesn’t fit his character, but because it’s BORING to give both characters a similar mindset.

    You could tell they were ashamed of how idealistic and hopeful Superman is by just looking at the color palette for the movie. Grim, dark, oily tones for everything, including the hero.

    There is nothing WRONG with “the world is crap, but we can make it better.” There’s nothing wrong with doing a grim, dark hero whose life is hard and horrible and who rises above it. That’s a great story. It’s not the only story, and it sure shouldn’t be Clark’s story.

  • Sara

    Im sorry but thank god for that. I dont think I could handle Civil War as a movie personally.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    It really is a shame. Personally I suspect that if Supergirl had been a big hit (which was in the 80s) we might have seen a radically different status quo regarding how superhero movies are green lit. Specifically, the avoidance of female superheroes might not be a thing.

    EXACTLY! That is exactly the problem!
    Its all about approach~ The trick is finding the right approach to work with.

    That really would work. Heck, during the golden age, the gods didn’t even appear in Wonder Womans story beyond a mention. It was all about her stepping up to fight for justice and refusing to just sit back and be a spectator when she had the power to help, despite her cultures reluctance to get involved.

    That said, I am kinda curious what sort of approach they will do to greek mythos if they ever do work those characters in. I mean, in the 80s and 90s they pretty keenly establised Hercules (the original bisexual superhero) as a supervillian alongside Hades and Ares which was pretty out of character for them. In the new 52, they turned it around and made Ares one of the good guys and Hera one of the baddies. Along with a heartless Hades who holds his wifes corpse prisoner.
    Though neither interpretation really really plays that true to the mythos so it might annoy people who are more greek myth savvy over comic savvy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    Personally I felt the humor was rather muted, though the story did read like a classic Shakespeare admittedly.

    It kinda depended on the writer in the comics. One DR.Strange writer went out of his way to say magic was limited to the things Science couldn’t do and one of the guys on Excalibur went out of their way to explain leylines and played off magic as ‘the opposite of science’ There isn’t really a set in stone relationship with magic in the marvelverse. Just that its there and that its magic.

    The Blake thing in the comics was the tiniest bit confusing ^^; Last I read regarding it though, Blake became a seperate entity independant of Thor after some kooky magic hijinks. (After Blake was just a construct created by Odin to stick Thor in)

    Yeah, I suppose the movie did have more fun with itself than DC fare. Personally though I felt it could have been better. Perhaps some variety with the CG frost giants and a bit more kickass with the battles and less ‘scientists jumping up and down screaming magic isnt a thing’ blahness.’
    Golly those thor 2 trailers look promising…

  • Brett W

    Here I think we just have different opinions. Specifically, I see Superman as taking the view “the world is bad, but we can make it better. Everyone has the potential for good.” Whereas Batman takes the view “the world is bad, and it’ll probably always be that way, but I’m going to fight on regardless.”

  • Guest

    Ah, my first screen crush.

    Hey, don’t look at me like that, I was 10 when I first saw it. Still my favourite costumed superhero though.

  • Thomas Hayes

    I for one wonder what’s stopping them from doing a Black Widow film. I mean they’re already hinting that Cap. 2 is going to be tilting toward political thriller territory (or something) so why not a spy film in the Marvel Universe? We already know a bit about her backstory, she’s one of the best characters in Avengers, we’ve also got ready-made support characters in Hawkeye and the rest of SHIELD and she’s played by freaking Scarlett Johansson. I would have thought it’s a no brainer.

  • Brett W

    Can Black Widow carry her own film though? Your mileage may vary on that question.

  • Thomas Hayes

    This is entirely dependent on the screenwriter and what they choose to do with her, in my opinion. I don’t think Black Widow is any weaker or stronger a character than say, James Bond, or Batman. Put the pen in the right hands, the right ass in the director’s chair and get Johansson on form, and absolutely she can carry her own film.

  • Brett W

    I don’t think you can compare her to James Bond or Batman. Both of those characters have something she doesn’t: brand name recognition and a proven track record. Trying to make a movie about her would be like trying to make a movie about Robin, or (perhaps a better comparison) Hawkeye. Some characters aren’t “big” enough to carry their own films.

  • Thomas Hayes

    I wasn’t thinking in brand recognition terms, because that’s about SELLING the movie. That has little to do with CARRYING the movie, which is about character and writing. Black Widow is a spy like Bond, a darker and tortured hero like Batman, and not-superpowered like both. If it’s possible to write a good film for characters like them, then it’s possible to write a good film for her.

    If we are to discuss selling the thing though, remember she had the third most screen time in last year’s biggest film! Also Marvel have shown they are willing to take risks, because they realise they need to (all of their biggest characters are licensed to Fox and Sony) that’s why they started the franchise with B-lister Iron Man and why next year they’re releasing a space fantasy film with a superhero team that has a tree and a Raccoon in it. A film that stars a female superspy seems pretty easy to sell by comparison.

  • Brett W

    Good point. Marvel does like to gamble.

  • Anonymous

    Brett W is right: does *every* male super-hero have to be “fun” and “vibrant?”

    (In other words: womanly.)

    Superman was *never* portrayed that way in the comics — even the “mild-mannered” Clark Kent was serious and focused.

    A fluttering fun ‘lil thing just isn’t who Superman is.

  • aggieagatha

    Sucker Punch is a teenage boy’s anime nerd wet dream. It’s sexist, stupid, nonsensical and ‘has loads of explosions’. Can’t stand that film.

    Though I did enjoy Man of Steel.

  • Anonymous

    Totally agreed. It felt like they threw in certain plot developments just for the sake of adding an extra twist. And Bane’s characterization was all over the map, to the point of being irritating. First half of the movie, he’s far more interesting and sympathetic than Batman. Then I guess someone was like, “Oh! He’s supposed to be evil! Back to taking over the city, murders and whatnot!” And then he just gets dropped in favour of the True Villain. Well Nolan, that was surprising. Mainly because it didn’t really… make a lot of sense… but I was certainly surprised.

  • Anonymous

    Nah. Too many on-screen feet.

  • Anonymous

    “At least your planet still exists back in time. Everyone I’ve ever known or loved has been retroactively erased from history.”

    “Sod off, Doctor.”

  • Anonymous

    “womanly”

    ¬_¬

  • CommentsSectionsAreDumb

    Haha, nobody ever mentions, “Well, they already got Green Lantern established.” Quick, name a good Ryan Reynolds movie! OK, I guess I can give you some more time…

  • Anonymous

    Believe it or not: David Hayter (I think it was him) Co-Writer and Co-Producer of the first “X-Men” movie tried for years to get a “Black Widow” movie made. He wanted it to play in the time after the end of the Sowjetunion when all sorts of Russian Mafia connections and trade with atom weapons where coming up and had casted Rebecca Romjin (Mystique in the “X-Men”-movies) in his mind. He tried unsuccessfully as nobody (really nobody) in Hollywood wanted to back the project.

    Then “Elektra”, “Ultraviolett” and “Aeon Flux” bombed at the box offices and he gave up as for the next few years no one was financing any action films with female heroes anymore (unless they were part of “Resident Evil” or “Underworld”). Sad story.

  • Brett W

    Well secret identities wouldn’t make sense for any of the Avengers as depicted anyway. Tony Stark is an egomaniac. Of course he’d announce his secret to the world in the first film. Hawkeye and Black Widow are government agents, so “secret identity” is kind of a moot point there. Bruce Banner has actually tried to maintain a secret identity, but failed repeatedly. Captain America doesn’t really have a “life” to keep secret in the present day. And Thor… is Thor.

  • Thomas Hayes

    That is frustrating, that sounds like it would have been pretty interesting.

  • Anonymous

    Very odd, your reply sounds like something that would be
    posted on a dating site. (I’m not interested, btw.)

    Regardless, when General Zod comes knocking, we don’t need fun and vibrant, we need serious and focused.

  • frodobatmanvader

    I hope they do the Rogues. And not just “some” of the Rogues. I want ALL of the Rogues. If DC wants to go all “high concept” with their superheroes, then I think The Flash should play like a Guy Richie movie: all of these Rogues with their schemes bouncing off of each other in tense and surprising ways, and the only one who can sort it out is The Fastest Man Alive.

  • frodobatmanvader

    Alfred’s motivations would have made so much more sense if Bruce Wayne had seemed like he was ADDICTED to being Batman. I think they were going for that… but when Bruce is just mopey, not obsessed, it makes Alfred look like an insensitive dick.

  • frodobatmanvader

    I love your ideas, but I think I would like it better if this was all the first movie, not a trilogy. I think the Flash should be throwing tons of twists and turns at the audience, like one of those hyperactive heist movies. Yknow, FAST.

  • frodobatmanvader

    I think its important to remember that even Batman Begins and The Dark Knight had moments of comic relief. Maybe not laugh-out-loud funny/awesome as the Loki-as-rag-doll moment, but still moments of levity to break up the drama. Man of Steel had moments like that, too, but because character motivations were muddled to the point of non-existence, it made that levity stick less. Aesthetically, though? I gotta agree with Brett, I loved how it looked.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Well, that or make it a miniseries.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Right, exactly. It’s why everyone’s motivations “make sense” in a surface way. Like, you’re told “for these reasons” but at no point in the movie do you ever really feel them. As it is, it looked like Alfred just let Bruce be a haggard, horrible recluse from the entire world for eight whole freaking years for NOTHING.

    And the eight years thing…I’m sorry, I think Batman, and the word I think is PERSEVERANCE. He is not someone who should ever give up–completely and utterly give up–over a case of the sads.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Honestly, the only one I’d see stand up would be Begins. TDK is enjoyable in each scene, but I found that it didn’t make a cohesive whole. I’m not really talking plot points; those I can glance over (unless it’s “how did penniless and injured Bruce Wayne get from the middle of the desert to Gotham, and DON’T tell us it’s because he’s resourceful BECAUSE YOU HAVEN’T SHOWN US THAT.”), but just that it felt very sloppy. Each scene was good, but it just wasn’t put together well, if that makes sense.

  • Brett W

    See thats what everyone gets wrong. Batman didnt retire because he was depressed. He retired because Dents death inspired the people, the Dent Act gave police more power, the mob was crushed, and he was no longer needed. Batman retired because Gotham no longer needed him. That was the tragedy: the future of a Gotham that didnt need Batman became reality, but Rachel wasnt there to share it with him. Without Batman or Rachel his life had no purpose, so he became a recluse. Then when Bane showed up he felt like he had a purpose again, like he could have a warrior’s death rather than an empty life.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Still looked like he sat on his butt for eight years when he could have been actively helping things. There were still problems in Gotham–even problems with the Wayne foundation. He was just too absorbed in his own pity party to try to find other ways to help.

    I mean, hell, why did Robin and everyone get all pissy about Harvey Dent being a lie. His death galvanized them into pushing the act, but the results of the act were supposedly good, so why wasn’t that enough to speak for itself. If you took away every bit of forward-moving legislature just because it turns out the primary force behind them did bad things at some point–in Harvey’s case, during a severe bout of PTSD that no jury in the world could convict him for–then nothing would ever move forward.

    The whole freaking movie was a mess.

    Why did Bruce sleep with Talia again? Because the plot said he should, I guess, since they never once exchanged a moment of chemistry on screen, but neither did they take the other road and have Bruce think about Catwoman the whole time. Every character decision came across as forced and hollow.

  • Anonymous

    tinyurl.com/nc6x6hg

  • Lucas Picador

    Ugh. More Zack Snyder directing Frank Miller. Those two fascists deserve each other, but do they have to grapple each other’s naked sweaty bodies up on the big screen in front of everyone? And can we get a real Superman movie first, where he gets to be a hero who rescues people instead of a mass murderer and authoritarian tool of the state?

  • Nat

    Really? I thought Sucker Punch was a great movie, although I’ve only ever seen the extended version which I think explains more than the standard theatrical version

  • frodobatmanvader

    It’s hard to pick out, but I think he slept with Talia as a diversionary tactic because his WHOLE REASON for coming home JUST THEN was to suit up and fight Bane. The complication, presumably, would have been that though it was meant as a diversion, nothing more, she really DOES get under his skin and he gets vulnerable… But since the movie didn’t make it clear just WHY he was coming home, it just looked like he was coming home BECAUSE, and so he slept with her BECAUSE, and for that matter she happened to be there in the first place BECAUSE… Yeah, that movie was a mess. But the most frustrating thing? Underneath the hood, that movie had all the makings of a Cadillac (facepalm).

  • frodobatmanvader

    And while that makes sense in a way, it doesn’t make sense in the context of the film’s ending. According to the end of TDKR, Bruce’s happy ending is NOT dying a warrior’s death, but to finally giving up his need to be Batman, finally learning how to let go and not have to control things that can’t be controlled. And I feel that for a Batman story, that is a BEAUTIFUL message. But it’s totally undercut when, at the beginning, he seemed to have ALREADY let go of being Batman and sat moping.

  • Pomfelo

    I’m with you. I should clarify. By excellent cinematographer, I mean he is good at taking an image and putting it on screen.

    What annoys me most about that is the LITERALNESS of Snyder’s process. It’s a small moment, but the moment when Zod is racing up the side of a building is taken from an oft used comic image. On the screen, it’s this weird hand over foot, almost cat climbing up a tree style movement.

  • Brett W

    I don’t think he did let go of it. What do you suppose he was doing while he was moping exactly? My guess is that he spent half of his time thinking about Rachel and the other half wishing he was out being Batman. Alfred even notes how eager he was to put the suit on again. And when he tells Lucius Fox that he’s retired, it looks like it galls him to do so.

  • Brett W

    I have to admit I didn’t really “get” their love scene either. I just went along with it as a tribute to their relationship in the comics. (Because of course I knew who she was from the start. “Miranda Tate”? Please.) I won’t deny the film has flaws. But I think it’s still still good. It could have equaled the Dark Knight if the script was fine-tuned a bit more.

  • frodobatmanvader

    I agree with this. When I say it was a messy movie, I don’t mean it was necessarily a BAD movie, per se… but that it was messy. I think what’s frustrating to me is all that needed to be tweaked was character motivation, which (though no change in the gameplan for a movie is ever “easy”) is the easiest thing to change in a movie! That’s just tweaking the dialogue and a changing acting strategy!! That’s it! That’s all this movie needed to be a masterpiece on the level of Batman Begins or The Dark Knight… sigh.