You might be forgiven for not noticing any ads in Scott Snyder’s Batman #13, since the story is riveting, horrifying, and kicks off the first major appearance of the Joker in the New 52. In fact, until David Willis of Shortpacked pointed it out on his tumblr, I didn’t even notice that the back cover ad on this issue was different from the back cover ad of the three other DC comics books I picked up this week. Which is unusual, since the way ads in comics usually work is that they are the same across all of a publisher’s titles in a given month, right down to page placement. So what’s the ad hiding behind that die cut cover of the Joker’s horrifying new face?
It’s a Fake Geek Girl joke, playing on the most pernicious, alienating, and sexist stereotype of women in nerd spaces. And if you can’t take my word for it, maybe you’ll take president of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America John Scalzi‘s, which was written more recently but at a pretty much identical cresting of the “Fake Geek Girl” idea in nerd culture as when I wrote my piece.
I’m not here to engage in a discussion about whether or not this attitude exists (it does), and whether or not it makes women feel alienated from nerd culture (it does). I just can’t decide which is more depressing to imagine: someone in marketing at College Humor (whose work I generally enjoy) pitching this specific example from their series of real life comic book “villains” to DC for an ad… or someone on DC’s marketing team saying “These ‘villains’ you came up with are all super funny, but you know… Some of our readers might feel targeted by the “guy who gets angry on forums” joke or the implications that they’re not good at personal interaction. And we probably shouldn’t use the one about executives… seeing as how we’re employed by them. So we’ll use the one that’s a girl. Girls don’t read comics anyway”
It’s also worth pointing out: I bought one other comic this week that also included this die-cut cover. It’s also being billed as one of the first installments of Death of the Family, DC’s latest big Batman event, the first major appearance of the Joker in the New 52. It was Batgirl #13. It didn’t have this ad.
If you’re looking for catharsis, David Willis, the cartoonist who brought this to my attention in the first place, has, as always, your catharsis right here.
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I’ve always found “Fake Geek Girl” to be more a critique along the lines of those who wear Run DMC t-shirts and, when asked what their favourite song is, turn around and say they don’t listen to rap or if someone wears a Superman t-shirt and, when asked their favourite story, say something like “comix r well gay lol” (it happens). Scalzi is completely right in that anyone can be a geek if they want to be. Completely right, but I think there are those who are protective of their geek status – after all, it’s something many of us have been bullied about at school and so on.
Obviously it can be used in sexist ways, but I don’t think it necessarily is a sexist construct – it’s a critique on social behaviours, on ignorance and so on.
But, y’know, I’m usually wrong about things like this.
I don’t think you’re wrong.
Every time I think humanity is progressing, something happens to reverse my opinion. I think I’ll throw humanity into space now.
This garbage has to stop! I recently wrote about this stupid meme and what it is doing to nerd culture: http://www.eatyourcomics.com/2012/09/09/3-reasons-to-encourage-girl-geeks/
The problem is that some geeks are so quick to label others as fakes. The statement “I like anime” opens you up to “Oh, have you seen X, Y, or Z (obscure/classic/asker’s favorite anime)? No? FAKE!” The reality is probably that a person can like anime and not have watched every single series out there.
The obnoxious thing about this ad is that it turns “fakes” into villians. Really? How are fakes taking down geek culture? I doubt they’re discouraging other people from becoming geeks. The shouty forum trolls? Probably are.
This makes me frown ._.
You girls need to stop getting upset at this ad and the memes, and start getting upset at the real culprit: the actual fake geek girls! Some chick who is desperate for attention dresses up in a slutty Chewbacca costume but does not even know that Chewie is from Kashyyyk? Face it, ladies (I am speaking to the true geek girls here), this is not good for you. How many conventions have you been to where guys are tripping over themselves to take a phone pic of some scantily-clad Slave Leia? Stop and ask yourself if you think the costumer in question actually reads comics, or why maybe she chose to dress in that particular costume. How about that chick that always dresses as Red Sonja at DragonCon? You think she reads Red Sonja? You think she ever saw the Brigitte Nielsen movie?? Doubt it.
Or we could embrace her first tentative steps into geekdom and not turn into those exclusionary assholes who wouldn’t let geeks be popular in school? You know what, I have never regretted being kind to someone. Let’s all just make this a better world and start by treating each other better, OK friend? Let’s provegeekdom embraces passion and positivity by acting with passion and positivity, k? Love you, mwah.
Ok but my question is where is the line? What is the ‘official’ criteria of what makes you a geek and what doesn’t. Exactly – there isn’t criteria because its subjective. If I say I’ve seen Star Wars and like it maybe one opinionated jerk thinks I’m a fake and another doesn’t. Maybe if I say I can whup you at Star Wars Trivial Pursuit but I get the question about Chewie’s home planet wrong, then that still isn’t good enough. If a guy is wearing a Star Wars Tshirt his “geekhood” isn’t questioned. If a girl does, well. There are posers in EVERY group. There always have been and always will be. So no I’m not getting mad at anyone because the standards are BS.
No, actually, I’m pretty sure the real culprits are MRA dudebros like you who think you get to decide which women are and are not real geeks.
Sit. Down.
I don’t think you’re wrong either, but if that was really the case, it would be “Fake Geek Person” instead of “Girl”.
If it isn’t a sexist construct, why are “Fake geek GIRLS” being singled out? Where’s the Fake Geek Guy meme?
Anyone and everyone can go to a con. Some people go to keep their friends company and check something out. Some are parents who are going to escort their kid, who is really into it. Usually the only cosplayers I met who don’t love and know about the character they are cosplaying are people who are being paid by a company to sell a product. And while I don’t geek it up with those people, I’m never rude to them either. I have noticed more and more women at cons, but it’s because we’re inviting each other to the cons and then we invite even more of our gal pals.
Your post sounds to me as if you think that geek girls should only wear frumpy and ugly costumes and not celebrate their bodies. To turn it around a bit, would you find guys who dress as Conan the Barbarian or choose another costume that they think makes them look sexy and desirable are not real geeks? A lot of the women I’ve met at cons who are dressed as slave Leia or Red Sonja are familiar with the source works. I hate to tell you but girls, especially girls who attend in costume, attend cons for the same reason guys do: to be among other geeks and see all the wonderful geeky stuff.
But what is wrong, really, with the girl who dresses in a costume but doesn’t care about the fandom it comes from? If a person’s entire enjoyment of pop culture is the costumes (even skimpy versions of the costumes), or if their whole experience of anime is one show, or even just a vague and superficial enjoyment of vaguely geeky things, how exactly does that ‘hurt’ the geeks?
This idea of ‘authentic’ fans and ‘fake’ fans is just exclusionary bollocks. They are not ‘doing it wrong’ even if you don’t like it. People are free to participate at whatever level they like, including superficially, and of that means some girls gum up the works in cute TARDIS dresses but haven’t seen a single episode, then good! ( those dresses are adorbs and I want one).
Wearing a sports jacket doesn’t make you a sports expert overnight either. I had a Junior Seau jersey and honestly don’t know how many takles he did, but he was awesome. You wear a Superman t-shirt because you like it, it doesn’t come with instant knowledge.
You have no idea what a relief this article is to me. When I saw the back cover of my copy of Batman #13 I felt bewildered and hurt. This is one of DC’s premiere titles and the first issue of the highly anticipated Death of the Family Bat-crossover event, and this is what DC thinks of me? Is this how I appear to other people within the fandom–grating and attention-seeking? I had to check all the other DC titles I’ve bought this month to see if DC has secretly been laughing at me. All of the others had an advertisement for the animated Dark Knight Returns, so is it just Batman that’s not for girls? Batgirl I can understand as conceivably having a larger proportion of female readers, but Swamp Thing and Animal Man don’t seem particularly girly. Was it just me? Was I getting upset over nothing?
At least now I can know I’m not alone in feeling humiliated, even if I’m stuck on the bitter and resigned kind of angry instead true rage (improvement?). So thanks for the anger-based camaraderie.
That’s a fair point, but I think it stems from the image being used as that of a girl. My point, however, was that this attitude is perpetuated by both sexes. A “Fake Geek Guy” meme would work equally as well, but the nature of memes is they rarely seem to come in pairs – only one I can think of are the Foul Frogs and that’s because they’re gendered memes.
The problem is that some of those people who were bullied for their geek status grew into a world where geek status is pretty much mainstream and popular and said ‘well now it’s MY turn to be the bully!’
It is somewhat frustrating. Fake geeks don’t harm anyone, but the people that target fake geeks often have faulty aim and cause things to be very ‘not nice’ for the rest of us.
It *should* be that, but due to the nature of memes it isn’t. I still stand by my point that it’s not necessarily a sexist meme *but* it can be used in a sexist manner – and sadly often seems to be.
I’m not sure if this is supposed to be a reply to me, but I’ll try to reply.
The example you used is, truthfully, a minority. The people paid to dress up to advertise are vastly outnumbered by con attendees – would actually think those involved in advertising would be labelled as “staff” or just come under the company they’re advertising for.
But my point, and what I believe to be the point of the meme, is more about people who in real life and on social media say things like “omg just watched a star was film im such a geek lol” or who wear t-shirts with a Bat logo on but have absolutely no interest in the franchise beyond the blockbuster films. Of course, people are free to express themselves like that, but this meme is more about like when those same people are completely ignorant and even offensive when confronted. As I said in my first comment, there are those who wear these “stylish” t-shirts and have no idea what they mean or anything, and can be confrontational when questioned.
After all, many of us (particularly geeks!) wear t-shirts with logos, brands, franchises and so-on displayed on them to express our love of things (I <3 my B.P.R.D. hoodie), and it's a natural way to start a conversation, no? If you're at a music club and someone's wearing a t-shirt with your favourite band on, would you not assume they like that band?
I think the issue is less "omg not real geeks" and more what that ignorance represents – both a cheapening of franchises but also just how it sends out these wrong signals.
Just my opinion, anyway.
That’s the frequency I tune to, Kathryn. Well stated.
Dear me, the Internet has turned into high school. Social labels have always been moronic. Geek, goth, nerd, jock, fake geek, fake goth, fake nerd, fake goth – whatever. People need to stop self-identifying with labels then they would care as little as I do. Geeks: The New Popular – next on Sick Sad World. For once, I would like to see articles praising when comics do something right before I completely lose the Internet as a treasured refuge. Scouring the back page of a comic to get upset is hardly worth attention. It’s like there’s a need to be offended. Oh wait…
Maybe my experience has just been totally different. I’ve never ever met someone fake-geeking at a con or any place else. If people wear geek clothing they’re into it, or admit they’re just starting to get into it. The only exception to that has been Halloween costumes, when someone says their girl/boyfriend is more into whatever it is,and that they’re just doing it to make their partner happy, but even then, they admit they’re not into it. I have had a few guys hitting one me, who seem to be exaggerating their geek cred to get to me, but if they weren’t exaggerating that, then they would just be exaggerating something else, so I don’t pay them much mind (and I’m certainly not going to bother making a meme about them). However, I see the fake geek girl meme growing more and more, and I’ve never seen a fake geek guy meme. Maybe Seattle is way different, the geek populace here is huge and usually we treat each other well and love introducing each other to new geeky goodness. And most of the non-geeks like how we geeks do our thing and are good-natured to us. The few remaining non-geek snobs are pretty easy to avoid, because we geeks in Seattle have so many of our own social events.
I don’t see anywhere that it says ‘Fake Geek GIRL’ on that ad…all I see is ‘Imposter’
I think it’s worthwhile to note the context on collegehumor.com — http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6795459/the-six-supervillains-of-nerd-culture
On the one hand, it’s clearly mean spirited, though more of the cruelty is aimed at males than females. On the other hand, I’ve met people who fit every single one of the first five descriptions. Perhaps much could be improved just by making one of these other “types” a female — I’m thinking maybe the Alpha Nerd, because that’s totally me. But it’s obviously meant as humor, and as such it’s reflective of a certain point of view.
It’s the choice of this particular “villain” that raises the most questions. There are so many to choose from! I AM a comic book consumer, damn it! Do you just have no interest in my money? Are you seriously that myopic?
And it’s true — geeks love to say “you are!” and “you aren’t!”. Anime doesn’t count, indie comics don’t count, whatever. It’s because we’re prone to put our own individuality on a pedestal, I think. And perhaps also because being “part of a group” rubs some of us the wrong way. But if people want to use these words to describe themselves — words that were once used by bullies? Who cares what “criteria” they use?
Except “Fake Geek Girl” has been a recurrent meme that has been getting a lot of attention lately. The “girl” aspect is not incidental, it’s critical to the image the meme conveys: women invading a “man’s” space to get attention.
And this is overall. For this ONE joke, you could make an argument that the gender of the cartoon character is incidental. But it’s part of a larger trend.
COULD there be a “fake geek guy” meme? Sure there could. And the arguments about gate-keeping would stand, but the Fake Geek Girl meme is sexist on top of issues of entrance and acceptance. It assumes that geek girls are fake until proven real. That assumption is rarely (if ever) applied to geek guys. A guy may PROVE himself to be fake when he opens his mouth and shows he knows nothing about his proposed fandom, but a girl must PROVE herself to be real. That’s a problem.
And who, exactly, appointed you Gatekeeper of All That Is Geek?
And the picture and concept completely tap into the “Fake Geek GIRL” meme that’s been running rampant for a while now. The jokes don’t exactly get created in a vaccum.
“Scouring” is hardly necessary when you just turn the thing over and the insult is there to see in full color.
I don’t know. Did you ever ASK her if she reads Red Sonja?
Listen, dudebro. Being a geek is means being EXCITED about something. There are so many different ways to be a geek. That girl in the Princess Leia costume? Who’s to say she’s not crazy-excited to be wearing it? How do you know? I’m sorry that she committed the horrible crime of also being sexy while doing something nerdy, but hey, some people are both!
How do you know when someone’s “fake?” I mean, I loved Transformers: Animated, I wear my little Decepticon pin all the time. Never really got into the other franchises. Am I a fake Transformers fan? Is that girl in the “slutty” (nice choice of words there) Chewbacca costume a fake geek? Or does she just maybe really like the Star Wars movies and had a fun idea for the costume, but never really bothered with the EU?
Why should someone have to meet your standards of how to be a geek to deserve a little respect? E-freaking-SPECIALLY at a convention, a weekend haven of peer acceptance and mutual squeeing.
The Power Lad guy in the Justice League cosplay is such a faker–he just wants attention, with his washboard abs and his low-cut shorts…
…um…
(obligatory “bunk” line.)
Seriously, this. How many dudes walk around in a Superman or Batman shirt they bought at Target? You think the average guy wearing that has An Opinion on Damien as Robin and the new 52? Or is he just a guy who thinks Batman is pretty cool?
Why is that “acceptable” but for ladies, it’s “attention-grabbing.”
Oh, right, because those are “guy things.”
I think the “Fake geek guy” stigma exist, but I’m not sure if exist as a meme. It’s not knowledge defined, but social skills defined.
As: “He had a girlfriend, so he’s not a true geek”, “he dresses as a rocker, he’s not a true geek”, “he had friends outside the hobby-related friends, so…”, etc. And you need to prove yourself against others without reason. Basically, if your life doesn’t revolve around your hobby, you’re not a true geek.
Go to hell, DC Comics… and especially whoever came up with that shitty joke ad. God damned assholes.
Oh, gawd. This Guy. Hello again. Or possibly hello for the first time. If you are NOT the little boy in middle school who overheard me telling a friend that I was a Star Wars fan and proceeded to jump down my throat shrieking “YOU ARE NOT”, demanded to know what kind of engine and propulsion system the Millennium Falcon used, and marched off in smug glee when I stared at him in bewilderment; well, it was an honest mistake. If you are not him, then you resemble him exceedingly, right down to still being twelve.
As it happens, I also did not know Chewbacca was from Kashyyyk off the top of my head. Does that erase the time I spent watching the movies as a little kid? Do I have to give back the Marvel Star Wars comics that my dad and I spent about ten years filling collecting together, filling in gaps by scrounging in comic book shops and used book stores and convention displays together, giving each other missing issues as birthday presents? Has the concealed carry permit for my light up lightsaber keychain been revoked? No, I do not obsessively memorize facts and trivia from the canonical extended universe. Does the fact that I enjoy the franchise differently from you mean that I DON’T enjoy it, that it doesn’t matter to me?
Somebody who just dresses as a character because they think it looks cool, without having any deeper knowledge of the character? You know what? THAT. IS. FINE. They are still enjoying the character, albeit as a concept or as a cool design. They are ALLOWED to think Red Sonya looks cool and to enjoy the fact that they can rock the battle bikini without going any deeper into the mythos. That doesn’t hurt me.
What DOES hurt me? What is “not good” for ME? Has been assholes like you constantly quizzing me and belittling me and demanding to see my nerd credentials every damn time I turn around. Most of my damn life, since I was TWELVE, you, YOU, sir, not Slave Leia, not Sexy Chewbacca cosplayer, YOU, and little boys like you, have been marching up to me and informing me that I wasn’t fan enough, issuing pop quizzes and smirking if I failed or goggling in astonishment if I passed.
FUCK.
YOU.
You say you are speaking to the “true geek girls” here. You know what? STOP speaking to me. I do not need you telling me that the Marvel Star Wars Comics are not official canon, or insisting that if I really loved this/that/the other thing, I would know this/that and have read/watched more of this/that. I DO NOT NEED YOUR PERMISSION TO BE A TRUE GEEK GIRL. And neither does goddamn Sexy Chewbacca. I’ll take a thousand of her over even ONE more of you.
You know what? I have as much right to be a gatekeeper as you, which is to say, none at all, so why not? You, sir, are a fake geek boy. I’m calling it now. You don’t REALLY love Star Wars and Red Sonja. You just memorize a bunch of trivia so you can SHOW OFF and try to get ATTENTION. Gasp!
Poser. PHONEY. You are out of the clubhouse. By the authority vested in me by absolutely no one, I hereby revoke your geek card. You’re out, Sexy Chewie is in. Buh bye. We will not miss you.
Yes, turn the thing over as in put effort to look at it because it’s not shoved in your face. It’s insulting posers. Are you a poser who’s insulted? Do posers not exist and is it an honorable thing to be one? Secondly, it’s an ad by College Humor. College. Humor. Two words that announce it’s nothing to be serious about unless of course you’re easily insulted or taught to feel that way.
As what I’m assuming you’d accept as a “true geek girl” and therefore apparently worthy of being spoken to: how is this not good for me, again?
I get pretty women in cool costumes to look at, plus the chance to have an “oh gosh I love that character, let’s be friends so I can introduce you to how fun her source material is” conversation. I am supposed to be seeing a downside? Because I’m really not seeing a downside to this.
Marry me?
Let’s just do away with the term “Geek” altogether since it has become so meaninglessly broad. God forbid people learn to describe themselves with specificity.
Ugh. There was a guy on OkCupid who was so surprised that I actually liked manga/anime, even though I had said so on my profile. He was like “wow! You like more things than Sailor moon!” And in his profile he wonders why no one messages him back…
“For once, I would like to see articles praising when comics do something right” You’re not from around here, are you? Stick around, you might see one. Or two. Or twenty.
You lost me at “You girls need to stop”. Way to start out with generalized condescension.
It really is quite depressing when the default setting for a girl saying she’s into nerd culture, or even just a particular thing in nerd culture is “she’s probably just saying that for attention/to fit in, let’s quiz her to make sure”. When I was in grade school I used to worry a lot about being called out like this, so I was either very sure I knew my subject well enough before I talked about it or I would remain silent even when I really wanted to talk about it.
I’m not sure if the creators’ intent had a sexist component to it. I do know that when I see it, it’s like a little blow to the self esteem.
Never before have I read anything that so deserved the Orson Welles slow clap gif.
Thank you, madam.
(For what it’s worth, and because sarcasm doesn’t always come through the series of tubes, I think that Power Lad and the whole Gender-Bent Justice League are just absolutely amazing.)
I feel like copying this and spewing it all over the internet. Absolutely beautiful.
Keep in mind of where the “Geek girl meme” is coming from. Was the creato