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What's with the name?

Allow us to explain.

Great Hera!

UPDATED: Will Man Of Steel’s Wonder Woman Be De-powered, Get New Origin?

Some new information has surfaced as it pertains to Wonder Woman’s role in the Man of Steel sequel. While it’s a clear cut rumor, if true, I imagine a few fans might not be too happy about it. 

Everything we’ve heard about Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel 2 has been developing at an unusual pace, including the addition of Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. However, we’ve yet to learn what her place in the film will actually be. There doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of room considering the main story is meant to feature Superman and Batman, and according to a new report, that may mean little screen time for Wonder Woman.

Jett, from Batman on Film, answered a few “mailbag” questions on the site the other day about the sequel. It should be noted, while Batman on Film is normally pretty good with their information, this is still completely unsourced. Jett makes sure to note, “Responses to reader’s questions are based on inside information, industry scuttlebutt, and my opinion. Nothing should be taken as confirmed news unless explicitly stated as such.”

That being said, as to how Wonder Woman will feature he wrote, “Personally, I’d say it’ll be about on par with Scarlett Johansson’s first appearance as Black Widow in IRON MAN 2. I believe that it’s a cameo-plus type of role that will (hopefully) serve as a springboard to a solo Wonder Woman movie.” Though Gadot has hinted at significant training for the role, so we’re hopeful if it’s only a “cameo-plus” it will be one where she sees some action. However, he went on to give other details:

With all that said, I’d bet a year’s pay – in MONOPOLY money, of course – that the “Amazons” of this cinematic DCU will be descendants of those “ancient Kryptonians” who attempted to set up Kryptonian outposts throughout spacedom thousands and thousands of years ago. Furthermore, I say that Wonder Woman will be powered-down, if you will, relative to Superman because these Amazons have evolved and adapted to living on Earth for hundreds of centuries. And since Kryptonians are produced without any “He’n and She’n” – Jor El and Lara excluded – couldn’t this original Kryptonian on Earth have used this reproductive science to create an all-female race? I say yes!

I say, “Please, no.”

While this scenario could make sense within Man of Steel’s universe, I find it a poor way to introduce Wonder Woman to theater goers. God forbid she have her own origin and source of power. Let’s have her entire story dependent on the alien race Superman hails from instead. This is not to say the mythological aspect of Wonder Woman would be removed, but I’m still not a fan of this particular alteration. Are we just going to pass off all the Justice League as descendants of Krypton instead of allowing the audience to accept the individual backstories of the DC Comics characters? Anyway, really hoping this one turns out to be false.

[UPDATE] Batman on Film felt the need to clarify their post with some supplemental info on Twitter and Facebook:

OK, it’s not funny any longer. In the recent mailbag I did with you all, I speculated on how Goyer/Snyder *might* account for the origins of the Amazons: Decedents of ancient Kryptonian astronauts who were able to create an all-female race due to Kryptonians artificially creating their offspring. It was nothing but a guess — pure speculation and my opinion — and nothing more. Now, many outlets have picked up the “story” and have run it as either me claiming it to be fact or me claiming it’s “inside info/rumor.”

So, it seems this one was entirely a blind theory on how to account for Wonder Woman rather than a theory based on things they’d heard along the way, as we previously assumed. Thank Hera.

(via Batman on Film, image from 2009′s animated Wonder Woman)

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  • Thomas Hayes

    One word: No. More words: It’s a rumour and that site (Batman on Film) is pulling this out of their behind, I’m not giving any weight to it until and unless it’s confirmed by the production team. Because it’s stupid.

  • Anonymous

    Well, that’s a horrible idea…

  • Anonymous

    If this (horrible and insulting) rumor turns out to be true than WB will have created a new character who looks like Wonder Woman and has stolen Wonder Woman’s name but is NOT Wonder Woman. It’s one of the worst possible rumors I’ve heard about this film or any franchise. So let’s seriously hope that this one is a load of crap.
    If it’s true then I’m starting a petition for Wonder Woman and Lois Lane to be removed from this film and go off together in the sunset. Wonder Woman can be the superhero saving the day and Lois can be her intrepid reporter lover and they can live happily and sexily ever after.

  • Joshua S. MacDougall

    If this is true I will protest the only way that I think will hurt them, by not giving them my money. This is not a good idea.

  • Anonymous

    You are so much more succint than me. This rumor is so horrible that I can barely even type actual words bc I’m a step away from breathing fire. LOL

  • Elwyne

    This weekend I saw part of an episode of the ’70s Wonder Woman TV series, and that was all it took. I am in love.

    Whatever these bozos do with their silly movie, they can’t take Lynda Carter away from me. <3

  • Anonymous

    That wouldn’t be Wonder Woman. It’s as simple as that.

  • John W


  • Anonymous

    Sounds more like Supergirl than Wonder Woman.

  • Gordon Borland

    Well that sounds bloody dreadful.

  • Thomas Hayes

    That’s another angle on why this is terrible. Not only does it tie Wonder Woman’s origins to Superman’s people when they shouldn’t be, but it potentially closes up the opportunity for Supergirl to exist in this universe – as a character they could get stories out of – by instead just using her as a mechanism for WW’s origin instead. It’s shitting on TWO of DC’s iconic female characters at once!

  • Anonymous

    That would be a more likely source for Supergirl. Especially with the empty cryo-pod from Man of Steel.

  • Michael McNinch

    Since they removed the whole Moses thing that was Superman (replacing it with tons of Jesus)… my guess it they don’t wanna show Greek Goddesses as being part of it…

    Friggin’ assholes…

  • HamsterMasterSamster

    And then the movie will fail, and be held up as a shining example of why female-led movies should not be touched with a ten-foot barge pole.

  • Guest
  • WheelchairNinja

    Reminds me of Batgirl from Batman and Robin. Blonde Barbara Wilson, niece of Alfred Pennyworth ≠ redhead Barbara Gordon, daughter of Commissioner Gordon. And we all know how well that movie went…

  • athenia45

    De-powered? OK, but WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE?! “I say that Wonder Woman will be powered-down, if you will, relative to
    Superman because these Amazons have evolved and adapted to living on
    Earth for hundreds of centuries.”


  • Aeryl

    I’m pretty open to changing character origins to make translating to film simpler. Like Captain Marvel. The Kree don’t exist so far in the MCU, so to introduce her, you’d have to fudge things a bit.

    But Wonder Woman? No. She is an ICON, she’s part of the Trinity.

    If you feel like developing Earlier Kryptons as part of the MoS story fine, but make a NEW characters, don’t change WW to fit her in there.

  • Anonymous

    “While this scenario could make sense within Man of Steel’s universe, I find it a poor way to introduce Wonder Woman to theater goers.”

    Ugh. Agreed. Your viewers don’t need oversimplification, Hollywood! We can accept different backgrounds for different characters!

    I’m just going to go :headdesk: until the world :headdesk: is better :headdesk: thing wiF STUF :headdesk headdesk headdesk:

  • Alan Kistler

    Considering MAN OF STEEL gave us a Krypton that had a yellow sun, a race of Kryptonians that can only get powers from Earth’s atmosphere (meaning Superman can’t fly to the moon and beyond in that universe), a culture whose technology hasn’t altered in 8000 years, and a Jonathan Kent who fears the worst in humanity, I have no problem believing this rumor. Hope that it’s wrong, but wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s true. Warner Bros. has shown a desire to keep things “realistic” and “grounded,” and I can see them doing this out of fear that it would be too much to ask an audience to believe that sci-fi and fantasy elements can mix. Easier to just say “Kryptonians exist and have caused all these things and powers to happen.” Which is a shame and another contrast that shows Marvel Studios has more faith in its audience and more appreciation for the fun of genre-bending. I’ve talked too much, thanks.

  • Anonymous

    There’s be so much misinformation about this movie that I can’t possibly imagine this being true.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Oh good. Because if there’s one thing I hate about Wonder Woman, it’s EVERYTHING THAT MAKES HER WONDER WOMAN. By all means, let’s just have a brunette Supergirl instead. Pshaw, mythology and magic…who watches THAT?

  • Laura Truxillo

    Look, she was a GIRL and she was in a Batman movie. ISN’T THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU NITPICKY PEOPLE!

    No, seriously, I really have no idea what anyone was thinking there.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Well, not female-LED by any means, but another reason as to why “Wonder Woman is ‘Tricky.’”

    Which would be like trying to heat pizza in a box on a gas stove, setting it on fire, and then saying “Cooking is tricky!”

  • Laura Truxillo

    We can’t have TWO lady heroes running around. People would get confused!

  • Glitchy

    Nai .

    And finally, Hell, to the No.

  • Laura Truxillo

    ” WB will have created a new character who looks like Wonder Woman and has stolen Wonder Woman’s name but is NOT Wonder Woman.”

    To be fair, that describes a whole lotta characters in the nu52 these days…

  • Gerald Kirby

    This movie hasn’t even started filming yet, and I’m already sick of it.

    I want there to be a movie co-starring Superman and Batman. I want to see Wonder Woman on the big screen. I want to see the Justice League come together in a live action format to save the world from Darkseid. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that those currently in control of these properties have the proper vision to deliver the quality of films these characters and their fans deserve.

  • Anonymous

    Of course it does. ::cough:: Superman in the new 52 ::cough:: But it’s particularly egregious here given that this is the first time a female superheroine—arguably the most important one in the world—is going to appear in a film and, if this rumor is true, they will have chosen to tie her to a male hero in a way that will stay with her forever in the public eye forever defining her. Horrible.

  • blu girl

    The Kree will be introduced in Guardians of the Galaxy via Ronan the Accuser. If a Captain Marvel movie is (actually) made it would be after GOTG so the Kree origin story for Carol wouldn’t be a problem.

  • MeatyStakes

    Well, Man of Steel wasn’t really Superman, so, consistency??

    I’m like so uninterested in this whole thing once again; It’s not even hate, it’s just the meh-ness at this point what I am feeling.

  • Anonymous

    I….do not agree that the Moses allegory has been removed from Superman at all. Biblically speaking, Jesus took a great deal of inspiration from Moses so the two have always been interconnected in some capacity. Clark was still the child that was “saved” and sent across the universe in his own “basket” and then grew up and learned that he had a different history and had a job to do. Jor-El’s appearance to Clark was very similar to God’s appearance to Moses and the burning bush. Lois continued to straddle the role played by both Mary Magdalene (who was not a prostitute but Christ’s most beloved disciple) and Moses’s eventual wife, Zipporah. The Christ allegories are there too. Clark is both a Moses and a Christ allegory because there is a blending of both of these narratives even within the biblical context.

  • blu girl

    I’m going to consider this a nonsensical rumor and leave it at that. If I actually considered the possibility of this I would flip my desk over. I just can’t….

  • Skol Troll

    OK, the guy makes a rumor on the internet and now it’s a horrible thing. Sheesh, it sounds like sports and/or politics!

    As to WW from Krypton… no, that sounds wrong. Now, if Supergirl shows up as some point from successful Kryto-population that Zod hadn’t gotten to yet, YES! (Of course, something would have to happen to blow up THAT planet. Can’t have Supers everywhere.)

    WW needs to have the Greek/Roman influence and the “hidden Atlantis” vibe. Not YOUR Atlantis, Aquaman. Stop being a knucklehead. I’m talking “proverbial” Atlantis that’s smarter-than-the-average-human-so-your-puny-tech-can’t-find-our-island-Atlantis type.

    However, tweaking the source a *bit* is OK. What LL did in MoS is much more likely than canon, imo. Also, having just watched MoS (what, I’m a geek who’s stuck on a Netflix budget!), I absolutely see the beginnings of the Batman vs. Superman next step. Do-whatever-to-protect Dark Knight vs. All-Powerful Symbol of Justice (who just happened to completely ravage HIS cities while being Mr. All-Powerful).

    I’m looking forward to all of this. But if WW goes all Gwen Stefani Song on me (not the BANANA song, knucklehead,the 1st one!), I’m walking away from any Justice League movie. Hal Jordan’s already a mess to the point they need to figure out the jump to John Stewart.

    Not the Daily Show John Stewart, you knucklehead. The… eh, I give up.

  • MeatyStakes

    At this point my investment in this thing is like at an all time low, so I just feel that I have to say this before I actually DGAF, and I apologize beforehand for the language.


    I mean, I don’t hate New 52 WW backstory; don’t love it either, but it took the series to some interesting places that still felt like WW but with a twist. And It’s like all we got and I’m kinda held hostage so I better enjoy it SOMEHOW.

    This, this noise? It makes New 52 look good, more than good; brilliant! I mean, It got me WISHING for New 52, what kind of cruelty is this?

    Would rioting be over the top? I wish I was exaggerating. I know I’m a dude, but Buffy, Xena and Wonder Woman are my three big influences in terms of heroism, and this actually physically hurts.

  • Anonymous

    Well… unless I’m really out of touch with DC, canon Wonder Woman IS ‘less powerful’ than Superman. She really really is. Owing mostly to the fact that Superman is one of the most boringly omnipotent heroes ever created. That’s fine.

    That line is just there to explain WHY the Kryptonian-Amazons [Here is a small break so that anyone who needs to can bang their heads lightly on the nearest solid surface at the thought of Kryptonian-Amazons] aren’t able to move at super speeds and shoot lasers out of their eyes.

  • athenia45

    Ah, gotcha. But it still really pisses me off that there has to be some justification to make Wonder Woman “less than” Superman. *brain explodes*

  • Aeryl

    I’ve not heard that, but I think it makes more sense to just stick with the alien race they’ve already introduced in the MCU, the Chitauri, and to tie her origin into that, instead of introducing the Kree.

  • Anonymous

    Message to WB: if you prefer Supergirl’s origin story to Wonder Woman, add Supergirl instead. We won’t necessarily agree but we will respect your choice.

  • Anonymous

    It sounds kinda click bait-y. While I don’t doubt the studio’s willingness to defecate all over WW’s established canon, I’m going to come down on the side of it being some kind of stunt to get page views. Unverified, unsourced, but has a “decent reputation” for info is exactly the right setup for this sort of thing.

    If it’s true, it’s terrible, but between massive skepticism and an unrelated day-long migraine, I think I’ll save my outrage until we get actual confirmation that TPTB are leaning in this direction. Will be interested to see if this causes a big enough kerfluffle that someone official feels the need to issue a statement about it.

  • Eve

    I agree with the “meh” of it. It’s another sequel with too much going on – Superman, Battfleck, Wonder Woman and that’s just the good guys!

  • Anonymous

    As much as Marvel is doing a better job so far, this conflation is just as pointless as taking all the magic out of the cinematic Asgardians. Since their hyper-advanced technology does stuff that’s extremely scientifically improbable, insisting that it’s not magic makes it harder for me to accept it because they’re ashamed of the m-word. Making the Nine Realms all high-tech aliens with slight Medieval affectations does nothing to expand the scope of MCU since they’ve already got tech-based aliens in The Avengers & GOTG. Aliens that specifically use magic over technology, however, would’ve added something new to the mythos. Likewise the DC Cinematic Universe shouldn’t homogenize itself by taking all the magic out of Wonder Woman.
    They already stole elements of Wonder Woman’s origin to overlay onto Superman’s origin in Man of Steel with him being a non-standard birth (Krypton’s only natural born vs. made of clay) gifted with additional attributes from an external power source (broken monkey skull vs. Olympians). If they can make Superman needlessly complicated, why do they need to dumb down Wonder Woman?
    If the Amazons are descended from Kryptonians living on Earth, why in Hera’s name would they not be as powerful as Superman?

  • Jamie Jeans

    I know these are rumours, but I honestly would not be surprised by this garbage. After all, this IS the Wb and DC Comics here, well known for their failure in prompting any female superhero or any hero that was not a straight, white male.

  • BevBB

    Rumor, schmumor. Just watchin/rewatching the movie is enough to start someone thinking along these lines. I mean, I got the Man of Steel DVD for Christmas and basically realized the same basic scenario was possible after rewatching the movie for only the second time. See, originally, after seeing it in the theaters, only the empty pod registered in my head and so my first thought was naturally Supergirl. But after watching it again, and a couple of other times since Christmas, the emphasis on the Genesis ship being there for around 20,000 years started nagging at me. Yeah, sure, Kara (or someone else) could be conveniently frozen in ice somewhere on Earth in their new movie universe but since that’s already been done I won’t hold my breath.

    So, they planted the idea involving a Kryptonian arriving on Earth – and staying around active for some stretch of time – that long ago already. What else are we supposed to think the result of that would be except another super-powered being? Who and what exactly remains to be seen.

  • Charlie

    If this is true then DC should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Although…maybe it’s a Gambit. They figure people are going to be mad about something, so they leak a rumor for something much much worse, so that when it does come out, people might go, “Well, X was kinda off, but at least it wasn’t *Y*!”

  • Thomas Hayes

    Quite possibly. Remember this from not so long ago?

  • Anonymous

    In the Ultimate comic line, the Chitauri are the Skrulls, mortal enemies of the Kree.

  • Thomas Hayes

    I think click-bait is exactly what it is. And, nothing against websites like the one we’re on right now, that’s why they’re talking about it here, too.

  • Anonymous

    No. No. No, fuckin’ no!

  • Anonymous

    And this based on what? His opinion? Okay, then forget it!

    Unless someone claims to have heard something like that from a “source” I hold back my rants!

    If done so it would be stupid and a slap into the face of DC-Comic- and WW-Fans (which is not to say that Warners / Snyder / Goyer might not be so stupid to pull out something exactly as terrible as this).

    So. I wait and see (and sharpen my labrys axe ;-)) until I hear anything that is not just from some guy who has an idea but from someone who is involved with the production.

    Besides – you may correct me, if I’m wrong – but is Wonder Woman not even a little stronger than Superman? At least I do remember her being AS strong AS he is.

  • locuas

    if they are doing that, that is not wonder woman, that’s fucking supergirl! or powergirl for that matter. That is not trying to give a realistic origin, that’s trying to glorify superman’s origin even more. in fact, it is offensive. want to make the greek gods aliens? okay, but please don’t be insulting while doing it.

  • Anonymous

    Ah, Fakey!Batgirl. Sitting in the theater watching that movie is the first time I can remember getting actual real for real nerd rage. I was 11 and all about Babs and I lost it in the theater!
    Pretty sure 11 yr old me would also flip her sh*t over all this Wonder Woman garbage

  • Cowtools

    This is literally (not figuratively) the stupidest idea they could have come up with.

    Aside from basically being Supergirl and not Wonder Woman, this would turn WW into essentially just a legacy character.

    I didn’t mind in the comics when they changed WW’s origin to be the daughter of Zeus, because she remained a unique character with her own powers and mythos. But this change would turn her into just a subset of Superman’s mythos. It would also rob the new DC cinematic universe of a richer more varied mythos and story opportunities.

    It’s so monumentally stupid that I’m almost certain it’s true.
    The only thing that gives me hope is that the MOS tie-in comic revealed that Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) may have been in those pods that Lois found in the film. So hopefully this source is getting the two mixed up.

  • Cowtools

    Well, whether you liked MOS or not, at least he was still an alien from Krypton who had the powers of flight, super strength and heat vision.

    This version of WW sounds like it’s closer to the Halle Berry Catwoman in terms of accuracy to the comic source.

  • Canisa

    Wonder Woman is actually pretty much even with Superman in terms of power levels (or at least she was originally, maybe Superman’s power has creeped since then?) and I heard that Wonder Woman would actually win in a fight, since she actually has combat training while Superman is relying entirely on his athleticism.

  • Cowtools

    This is essentially true.

  • Cowtools

    Actually, for the record, WW is as powerful as Superman. She doesn’t have his ‘extra’ powers like heat vision, but she has actual fight training along with super strength and flight, and she has no ‘kryptonite’.

    This was confirmed recently in an issue of Justice League, where Batman revealed to Superman that he had a cache of secret weapons to take down the Justice League members if they went rogue (including himself) BUT… he didn’t have anything for WW because she doesn’t have any secret weaknesses.

  • Nicole Elizabeth Currie

    When I read the description, I was like ‘isn’t that just an alternate Super Girl origin story?’

  • Anonymous

    That was touch upon in Tower of Babel in which it is revealed, Wonder Woman’s only weakness is her refusal to surrender in battle under any circumstance would eventually cause her heart to fail.

  • Nicole Elizabeth Currie

    Exactly! If Marvel can make space Vikings who were once considered Norse gods work, then WW origins are pretty damn simple (and far more well known).

  • Michael McNinch

    You might be right. I think I’m just bitter because I really detest what they did with Superman in that movie… a lot. If they screw over Wonder Woman it’ll be no surprise to me.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, cool. I knew WW was a more skilled fighter but never considered her not having a particular weakness. Haven’t been keeping up with DC recently

  • Anonymous

    Oh yeah, TMS may be following the same rumors as everyone else, but at least they’re making it clear it IS just rumor and speculation. Some sites would be much less scrupulous about reporting the dodginess of the info.

  • Thomas Hayes

    Indeed. TMS is always very clear about that sort of thing.

  • Mina

    I could see them doing this, and, very weirdly, I think I could possibly roll with it.

    But it is not the Wonder Woman that I want. Not at all. And certainly not “de-powered.” I want Diana in her full-powered, blessed-by-the-gods glory, not a weakened Supergirl wearing Wonder Woman’s name and face. I’m gonna just hope this speculation doesn’t come to fruition. It would really be a waste.

  • Mark Brown

    IIRC, they’re evenly matched for raw power, but Diana has better formal combat training (whereas Clark just has some tutoring from Batman after he was already an adult).

  • Mark Brown

    DC should be deeply ashamed of themselves regardless, really.

  • NickN

    Didn’t we just get news that Goyer and Joseph Gordon Levitt are working on a Sandman film? I really don’t see anything in Wonder Woman’s origin(s) that would be any more strange and magical than making a movie about the Endless. It just seems too hypocritical of a move for Warner Bros. With the constant talk about Wonder Woman being too “tricky” I can’t fathom that someone wouldn’t consider that stripping out Wonder Woman’s background and replacing it a connection to Superman wouldn’t go over too well.

    I thought there were problems with the Nolan Batman films and Man of Steel, but both franchises were pretty faithful to the character’s backgrounds — even Green Lantern save for Hal having to overcome fear which is more of a Kyle thing.

  • Cowtools

    Dont blame you frankly. Once they drove away the Batwoman creative team and halted every book for the 3-D covered ‘villains month’ event, I gave up buying every DC book other than Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Batman and SM/WW.

  • MeatyStakes

    I’m seriously more okay when they change the origin than the actual character. Don’t get me wrong, this kryptonian-
    descendant, de-powered WW would be a bad thing on both ways; but honestly, Snyder didn’t get Superman as a character.

    He just “re-invented” him as he saw fit. Now, is this MoS Superman bad? no, it was actually a compelling arc, somewhat. Now, was it Superman? nope. What is Superman without his morals? he is just a near god. Superman as it is is very flimsy as a character; but that’s okay, he works better like an icon, an ideal. Remove that and everything that makes him unique is gone.

    The gritty Nolan Batman worked because it was another take on the themes that have already been there in Batman. But if you take the idealism out of Superman, and you have no Superman.

    So, even a de-powered, kryptonian descendant WW could actually be a better representation if they stuck to the themes of the character (truth, kindness, honor) But what are the chances of that actually happening? I mean, her characterization would have to be brilliant to offset that handicap (a completely unnecessary one) and I’m certainly not expecting that.

    Long story short. You can make a change of origin work, even if it is ludicrous, you are just making things harder on yourself, but okay. But if you keep the origin and end up with a completely different characterization, you come up with a re-interpretation of the mythos that most people don’t actually want to see as their favorite characters on the big screen.

  • NickN

    Depends. In the New 52 Superman is clearly stronger than Diana — he’s also apparently partially immune to her lasso because he’s a Kryptonian which makes absolutely no sense.

    It gets kind of embarrassing in the (horrible) WW/SM book. Wonder Woman gets wrecked by Doomsday, but has Hephaestus make Clark magical armor despite him coming from the fight unharmed. He then proceeds to beat up Hephaestus and later Apollo while Diana is completely useless and gets knocked out of the fight.

  • MeatyStakes

    “Oh, but don’t worry men; she is powerful, but not as powerful” The fact that they actually have to state this, that she will be “de-powered” makes my blood boil.

    I will have your testicles for lunch, with java beans and a nice Chianti.

  • Cowtools

    I get what your saying.
    I don’t think MOS completely upended Superman’s morality the way you do; though I totally understand what you’re saying.
    I think Synder and Goyer were trying to examine Superman’s sense of morals and ideal in what they thought was a grown-up, mature manner. They just happened to completely fail at it.

    On the other hand, WW’s origin on Themiscyra is pretty integral to her character. Superman is a lonely alien with survivor’s guilt and a sense of loss at his core, who tries to fit into the modern world.
    WW on the other hand was raised in a thriving society away from the modern world by a loving communal family.
    To make the Amazon’s Kryptonian undermines both these stories!

  • Cowtools

    Um…that’s a pretty egregious misrepresentation of the WW/SM book. Wonder Woman is beat by Doomsday just as Superman was. Superman doesn’t fight Hephaestus; he simply has his strength tested by Heph’s hammer. And Apollo picks a fight with Superman because he’s a gigantic douche, and WW isn’t ‘knocked out’ of the fight; she clearly, on panel, stands back to let Superman fight his own battle.

    Honestly, I get that some people are turned off by the WW/SM hook-up, but in their book WW comes off very well and not as any kind of sidekick or arm candy at all.

  • Veronica Cristina

    No, WW was beaten easily by doomsday. For a good fighter like her, she should stand better (but not win).. Why would Hephaestus test a hammer on Superman? That was only for superman fan wank. Superman fought with Apollo, because apollo called WW a slut. The book can be more sexist?

  • Cowtools

    She wasn’t beaten easily; she only lost after half a book’s worth of fighting where she the crap beaten out of her. She only survived as long as she did because she IS Wonder Woman. Doomsday killed Superman remember; he’s more powerful then the both of them combined.

    And how is that ‘fan wank’? “Diana, says you’re strong? Okay, I’ll test you.” What’s the problem?

    And I don’t agree that portraying a character as sexist means the book is sexist. Apollo insulted Superman (albeit via Diana’s taste in men) and he threw the first punch. I understand if people are uncomfortable with Superman ‘defending Diana’s honour’, but I din’t read it that way; what I read was a sexist jerk getting beaten up for being a sexist her. As it should be.

  • NickN

    How was it Superman’s fight? Apollo insulted her and called her a slut. He then knocks her away only to be beaten up by Superman — the panel even says Clark could have done much worse, but didn’t because Apollo is Wonder Woman’s brother. It wasn’t his fight, Soule even has Clark “apologize” at the end by saying he “knows” she could have handled it herself. Its nice for Soule to let everyone know Diana’s a big girl who can handle herself, rather than actually showing it in the book.

    Doomsday beats both of them, but it gets pointed out that Wonder Woman was the only one of the pair that had lingering injuries afterwards.

    The book pays lip service to Wonder Woman by saying that she such an amazing and strong character, but doesn’t show her do much of anything save for having girl talk with a random amazon about Superman between playing sidekick to Superman.

    It is absolutely pathetic that the brief flashback scene between her and Steve Trevor in his Forever Evil tie in had better, more equitable romance then the entirety of a major book being pushed by DC.

  • Veronica Cristina

    I wish I had the pages of the fight that she did really better against Doomsday. In SMWW wasn’t even a good showing for her, in the end she was about to be killed by DD and the only thing she thought was fly? use your legs wondy!
    well Offending a man throught insulting his girlfriend wife is a big sexist cliche. Insult the woman, let her take care of that. Superman called Apollo to fight.

  • NickN

    Yeah it was fairly obvious that the only reason Wonder Woman’s characters were there was to set up a situation where Superman gets to look good for defending her. I mean they even had Strife there randomly in the background swooning over Superman as he pummeled Apollo.

    The whole thing reads as a power fantasy to show how awesome and amazing Superman is for Diana — which of course can only be proven by through violence and masculine posturing between him and her brother.

  • Sophie

    She goes up against superman at the end of the ‘Sacrifice’ storyline, and no she’s not as powerful as him (I agree with the poster above that supeman’s power level makes his stories less interesting). However yes, she does hold her own against him, both because of her combat training and because she tactically outmanoeuvres him. It’s a good comic, one of the only times I’ve been interested in a fight between two superheroes.

  • MeatyStakes

    Yeah I agree with what you are saying.

    What I’m getting at, is that even of they changed those parts of WW origin story, there’s still a way of preserving the themes (If they had the will to do so)

    It would change the origin of Themyscira and it’s inhabitants, obviously, but it shouldn’t change the theme of it.

    I dunno; it’s still, BAD and unnecessary and undermines both WW mythology and the narrative of the LAST SON OF KRYPTON, you know. But it would not be the straw that broke the camel’s back. There is more egregious stuff going on (like the de-powered bit. that got my blood boiling)

    I mean, this whole DC-CU is such a hot mess that I don’t even know what is worse at this point. I’m compromised, man; I’m compromised.

  • TokenOfficeGoth

    Correct, it would be Superwoman at best.

    The DC Universe is so rife with (using Sarkeesian’s turn of phrase) Mrs. Male Characters and it would be a terrible insult to take one of the VERY FEW female characters with an original and unique back story and retconning her so that she’ll fit in nicely with the boys with a minimum of explanation or effort.

    Since we’ve already been flat out told that WW can’t have a feature cause, you know (misogynist bullshit reasons) it’s just adding insult to injury…

  • TokenOfficeGoth

    And yet you’d think Gravity, Frozen and the Hunger Games, just to name some top grossing films within the last year, would go a long way towards proving just how WRONG that perception is.

    More and more often these days when I have the option to go to the movies my money just stays in my wallet, I know the trend has been shockingly down-turning in terms of female lead and speaking roles, but I feel like I’m beginning to REALLY notice it more than ever.

  • Adele K. Thomas

    Sure, lets power down the ONLY FEMALE MEMBER OF THIS GROUP!
    Pile of crap, if any of this is true, prepare for an onslaught of online protests that will go on for the rest of time. In the words of Gob Bluth, “oh, COME ON!”
    I mean she is more powerful/as powerful than Superman. Groan.

  • NickN

    Jett just confirmed on Batman on Film that this was purely speculation on his part, not a rumor or inside information but just guessing about what might happen.

  • Nuuni Nuunani

    I actually hope it happens this way. With this sorta seet up, they could lead into the ancient Kryptonians descendants coming to worship the Olympian gods and picking up magic alongside technology, setting up the status quo from the silver age~!
    Plus it would be a nifty eexplanation for all of the Amazons cloaking technology.

    Admittedly the chances of them taking modern age superman and crossing him with a silver age wonder woman is pretty unlikely, but given my love of silver age, I can only hope.

  • Travis

    As stupid as it is, it wouldn’t even make the Top 5 list of stupidest things from Man of Steel, so I’m not terribly surprised.

  • Anonymous

    What? No. That is Supergirl, not Wonder Woman.

  • Anonymous

    Ummm… how about not being bullet proof?

    It’s an weakness Batman would NEVER draw upon admittedly. ::cough:: Darkseid ::cough::

  • Alexa

    I don’t get this, I watch the second Thor movie the other day and I was invested the entire time, because here’s the thing Warner, the characters and story were written very well, the movie was directed very well, the actors acted well, and it turned out to be a very good movie. And no I had no trouble with connecting with the characters because some of them happen to be gods and warriors from a completely different realm, battling giants and evil elves. In other words I am so sick of keeping things grounded (aka nix any sense of wonderment and fantastical elements) because that is the only way people can be invested. This logic is stupid and it makes things boring, not to mention that so many of DC heroes origins end up getting thrown under the bus because they sound too “implausible”, like a guy running around dressed as a Bat just sounds like the height of realism. See this is why I can’t fully enjoy Nolan’s Batman, because all it did was start this wholly stupid trend that all people want is “gritty realism” for every character in the DC universe, when by doing this all they accomplish is making the characters utterly boring, because they all act and talk the same. Just ask Batman’s current clone Green Arrow…

  • Thomas Hayes

    I knew it. Here’s the twitter link:

  • Anonymous

    So… anyone else remember when John Byrne decided that the gods of Olympus were just a ‘de-powered’ offshoot from the New Gods? (in fact, I think he’s still at it in his WW books, isn’t he?)

  • Laura Truxillo

    I kinda comes off a bit as more of that male power-fantasy thing. “He’ll call her something mean, and then I’LL BEAT HIM UP to defend her honor!” If Wonder Woman is capable of defending her own honor, that makes her a character with agency and choice, and she can choose to just glare at Apollo and think “that isn’t even worth my time.” Or she can choose to turn his skull into a fine powder.

    Making it about Superman’s reaction makes it…well, about Superman’s reaction. About *his* feelings on hearing his girlfriend called a slut, instead of about Diana.

    In and of itself, it’s not a horrible sort of thing (it was a nice character point in Pacific Rim, where Raleigh, the pacifist, only takes a swing at Chuck when he starts using sexist language at Mako, but it’s a character-building moment for all three of thing, and cements Raleigh’s role as “leader of the Mako Is Awesome fanclub.” Still a little awkward, yes. But he gets called out on it. In fact, it’s the one scene in which he truly oversteps his boundaries, and after being called on it, immediately reverts back to his respect for the chain of command).

    It’s just that SM/WW has a real uphill battle to fight in terms of making people feel like Diana is getting sufficient respect as a character, rather than as Superman’s Girlfriend, and…well, reverting to a pre-Victorian trope of “How dare you insult my lady’s honor!” is…not a good way to do that.

  • Jill Pantozzi

    I wonder if he means speculation, meaning his imagination, or speculation based on things he’s heard. In his original post he says his responses are “based on inside information, industry scuttlebutt, and my opinion. “

  • Anonymous

    to expand on that I think the “tricky” is coming in where as soon as you get the pizza near the oven like they do all the time, a thousand voices yell out, “You expect me to call that my pizza?”, “That pizza isn’t sexy enough”, “That pizza has too much sausage on it!”, “I’m vegan. Is that Pizza vegan?”

    Then they go “Fine, we’ll start over!” and come completely freak out and and don’t know how to put a pizza in the oven in the way that people want, and instead start putting in the tray with out the pizza, or trying to shove the pizza in the microwave, and scream, “I don’t know how to do this anymore!”

  • Anonymous

    I’m tempted to simply call this lazy, but are they going to make Aquaman part of a lost underwater Kryptonian colony? Nope. So I have to call this what it is – they’re deliberately destroying the character in a way that makes any movie centered on that character irrelevant because she’s just Superman-lite now. The “Why?” requires speculation and I’m far too torqued to get into that.
    I’m not even a WW fan and I’m upset.

  • Daniel E. Jacobs

    No… just no.. as a fan of Wonder Woman, and have been shouting on my roof top (to the dismay of my neighbors) I have been waiting Wonder Woman… made of clay given her powers by the gods and goddess of Greek myth. as powerful as any man in the DCU… to do this shows disrespect to character, to creators and writers of her over the 80+ years of her, and to fans, as well to women in general. Why does she need to be linked to anyone? Shameful… VERY VERY shameful.

  • Allen Slea

    And then when their “Wonder Woman” tanks, they’ll use that as an excuse to never tell another story with women ever again.

    It’s a plot, I tells ya. A plot!

  • Allen Slea

    Has she ever actually been shot? She probably is bulletproof. The bracelets are just to control the ricochets better.

  • Allen Slea

    Changes can be made. But Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers – see how I had to specify which CM I was talking about?) is not in the public mind at all. She’s a blank slate, as far as the movies are considered. As long as they don’t forget that she’s a military pilot, that her powers put her right up there with Thor and the other heavy hitters, and that she is the first one to lay down on that wire Steve mentioned, we’ll have Captain Marvel.

    But for Diana, being an Amazon is central to who she is! You can’t take that away from her and still have Wonder Woman.

    My secret hope for Carol in the movies, though? I hope there’s a minor timeskip, (maybe a year or so) and that when we meet her she’s already the most beloved super hero on Earth. I would wet myself with glee.

  • Laura Truxillo

    At the end of the day, Pizza is crust with either a white or red sauce and cheese on it.

    You can dress it up and add a bunch of toppings, and maybe some people don’t like mushrooms or some people think pineapple on pizza is the best thing ever. You can hand toss the crust or make it thin and flaky.

    But as long as you have the fundamental building blocks of a pizza, assembled in a relatively simple, if not easy, way, you have a pizza. And if you make it from good ingredients, it will be good, if not to everyone’s taste.

    If you take the Digiorno box out of the freezer and slap it, box and all on an open flame and the result catches on fire, well, then, maybe cooking is too tricky for YOU, but it certainly isn’t “too tricky.”

    Wonder Woman isn’t too tricky. No one’s pissed off with that pilot because she wasn’t sexy enough or was too sexy, or because she wasn’t whatever “vegan” means in your analogy. No one’s pissed off with this idea because of that either (although there is something to be said for their being “too much sausage” on it). They’re pissed off because in the pilot and in this concept, it fundamentally changes what Wonder Woman is. It’s like smearing ragu on a slice of white bread and topping it with a Kraft cheese slice, and serving the result as “pizza.” Anyone who likes pizza is going to be kind of pissed off when that lands on their plate.

    EVERY SINGLE HERO that gets turned into a movie comes with a SLEW of fanboy voices crying into the night. “Cap had better do ____.” “Wolverine is too tall! And too pretty!” “Superman isn’t like THAT!” “Thor is supposed to be Donald Blake!” “Heath Ledger can’t be the Joker!” “Bane’s voice sounds stupid!” “Green Lantern should be John Stewart!” “You can’t put Batman in the next Superman movie!” “Ben Affleck can’t be Batman!”


    Somehow, miraculously, the movies get made *without* the studio or the company throwing up their hands in dismayed, helpless confusion and having a panic attack over how to please the “thousand voices yelling out.” Hey, sometimes those voices were right about some things (Superman isn’t like that), but the movie still gets made.

    It’s only with Wonder Woman that the studio decides that she’s too “tricky.”

    She’s not, however, too “tricky” to be shoehorned in to an already-bloated sounding movie that has to reintroduce a completely new Batman plus villains plus further Superman as a character, which is sort of like Advanced Trickery 201: Playing On Hard Mode Without Trying Easy or Medium First.

    She’s just too “tricky” to have a live-action movie thoughtfully crafted around her. Apparently.

    So you can keep your “it’s the whining fans fault” logic. Fans have been whining about exactly how they want their special things since before the internet even gave them a platform to do it so loudly. It hasn’t stopped anyone else from getting a movie made.

  • Joshua S. MacDougall

    I said this on twitter but I think it’s a sad statement about our opinions of DC/Warner Bros. that we think they might be capable of doing something so stupid.

  • Anonymous

    exactly. What they think is tricky shouldn’t be keeping the moving from being made. With the movies, it’s always seemed to me that DC/WB has always been a bit gun shy when any movie that isn’t Batman. And when they do manage to put the pizza in the over, it’s on fire and coated in anchovies. Where Batman is a quitter, GL is WAY too complicated, and Superman..well you know.

    It’s not an excuse or defense.

    Pizza is still as stupid easy to put in the oven as it was before.

  • Anonymous

    I’m sorry Cowtools but I disagree. The book is terrible and i’m thrilled to see that it had a massive drop in sales for #2. I hope it continues. I know that it’s trendy right now for people to state that Wonder Woman comes off well in the book despite the problematic relationship but I think it’s more just that the people who would critique the book have just removed themselves from the conversation because they are that disgusted.
    Soule’s characterization of both Wonder Woman and Superman is extremely problematic on a number of levels. Wonder Woman has been completely defined by her relationship with Superman. Superman’s dual identity has been compromised and destroyed and he’s been turned into an Alpha male dominant figure that he NEVER was before in a weird bid to make him “cooler” with his hot new girlfriend. Charles Soule has made a number of problematic comments.
    This doesn’t even touch the way Soule and others continue to openly steal from Lois Lane while, at the same time, trying to erase the entire Superman/Lois legacy from DC history. It’s insulting all around and extremely bad for women in comics. I do not and will never support the book and I don’t think anything written thus far has done anything positive for women in comics.

  • Anonymous

    The book is sexist because the relationship between Superman and WW is sexist at it’s root. There are several very smart essays published by women way smarter than I that help illuminate these problems. Soule is working hard with a very problematic concept but it’s still at it’s core an intensely problematic concept. I’m sorry bc I know it’s frustrating to like something that has been so deeply criticized.

  • Anonymous

    The book is attempting to polish a turd. But there is only somuch you can polish a turd bc it’s still a turd. The relationship is a male power fantasy. Always has been. It turns Wonder Woman into a prize for men and puts her in a male space. It also turns Superman—a figure who used to be a rare figure in thd DCU—into the cool alpha male who got thehottest girl. It makes both of them look shallow. The book is filled with male power fantasies bc the relationship itself is a male power fantasy.

  • Angry And Yellow

    And the award for best response goes to…

  • Laura Truxillo

    I want to vote up for concisely stating everything wrong, but it’s one of those statements that’s hard to give a thumbs up to, y’know?

    But yes. That’s pretty much why it tastes sour to me. They could have legitimately stellar writing and art on this book for all I know, but the overall concept is just so…icky. (And not the kind of “well, this is uncomfortable but it was made in A Different Time” icky that a lot of the old-fashioned stuff I read/watch is.)

  • Zod

    Wonder Woman should not even be near Superman’s strength. Sure, give her “Amazonian” abilities. The disparity in power makes Superman, Superman.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not sure… I do feel it’s one aspect of WW that is inconsistently portrayed, however. I remember one fight with Superman (when possessed by Maxwell Lord perhaps?) when she deflected his heat vison at point blank range with her thumbs! All I could think of was ‘so why do you need those bracelets again?’

  • Anonymous

    If Supergirl created a self-contained Themiscryian matriachy using Kryptonian birthing matrices, there’d be no interbreeding or evolution to dillute the full array of Superman powers in each Amazon.

  • Ivan

    The fact that so many “fans” believed this, and still do, is an indicator to me of how many of them hate and distrust Warner bros, hate the castings, hate Zack Snyder and David goyer, and just hate. This entire project just has so much negative energy from the fans. wb doesn’t have to make these films, yes they are very profitable for the studios, but they’re still for our entertainment.

  • Anonymous

    Sounds like a pretty fascinating scenario.