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What's with the name?

Allow us to explain.

Great Hera!

Check Out These Fully Clothed Superheroine Redesigns




Michael Lee gave himself a design challenge recently: redesign several popular comic book heroines (Vampirella is included, so I guess they’re not all superheroes in the classic sense) but keep them covered from toe to neck and wrist to wrist, without resorting to costumes that could be reproduced solely by body paint, while keeping the bold look of their standard costume. He intended it as a design experiment, not a political statement, and if he’d done it with male superheroes probably most people would be taking those words at face value. And it also wouldn’t have been much of a challenge since most male superheros are, actually, wearing clothing that covers them head to toe. The story isn’t the same for female characters, though, and so naturally there’s a healthy amount of internet response that’s a little tone deaf, calling his designs frumpy, like men in drag, or prudish.

All I know is that there are few things in the world that make me feel more badass than wearing a nice-fitting suit and a long coat.

(via The Beat.)

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  • http://www.facebook.com/WCarpet Kenny Baese

    I like the ideas in most of these designs quite a bit, the Power Girl one in particular, but I do think that some of them are rather bulky or baggy looking. If they were a little more formfitting, the characters would still be covered, but would look more like superheroes. But, that’s just me.

  • http://twitter.com/sarasakana Sara Sakana

    So basically, you think it’s okay to for women to wear long sleeves, pants, and long skirts as long as they’re skin tight so you can still have some T&A to stare at?

  • Anonymous

    I really like most of these, most would be a definite improvement over current designs.

    Supergirl with a longer skirt and tights is great, though making a distinct fabric layer for the S looks like she cut the sleeves off of a T-shirt and wore it over her suit, doesn’t seem very Kryptonian next to Superman’s current look. But changing the skirt into a sort of tunic is pretty excellent.

    Power Girl is solid, my favorite of the bunch, though I might replace the plunging neckline of the outer vest with something more in the shape of the Super Shield since that is the excuse for giving her a cleavage window in the first place.

    Wonder Woman is ok if a little cluttered; she’s throwing off a bit of a Robocop vibe and she honestly doesn’t need that much armor (although it evokes her fairly badass Flashpoint alternate universe look), and the khaki pants stuffed into boots seems a little off.

    I’m glad Zatanna is wearing pants and the longer coat goes well with this redesign but I think character-wise she would be better suited for something like a full tuxedo. She also looks like she needs to take in her pant legs a bit.

    Black Canary is unfortunately nearly unrecognizable save for the choker and the blonde hair; she looks like she stole Static Shock’s pants, boots, and gloves and the fishnet trim seems like an afterthought. Not crazy about this one.

    I don’t have an opinion on the non-DC characters.

    The guy should try his hand at Starfire.

  • ampersands

    I agree; I think he could have gone a little more tailored without being skin-tight.

  • http://twitter.com/LJo83 Lindsay Beaton

    I’m down with all of them except Wonder Woman’s. Hers looks as though the artist kind of sort of wanted to give her either cargo pants or leggings, but couldn’t decide, so went with a weird in-between and then tucked them into boots…or maybe I don’t like the boots, which look like they’d poke her in the kneecaps whenever she straightens her legs. Something about the boots/pants combo is a bit off for me. Maybe give her combat boots instead, and tuck the pants into those?
    Zatanna is wearing my favorite style of coat, and I would like hers for myself. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1101354435 Kate Renee Cochran

    I like this… But why is Wonder Woman wearing khaki chinos? If she can splurge on a gold shirt, surely some gold leggings are easy to find?

  • Anonymous

    The spirit is certainly good. I like the Elektra one to be sure, but the Zatanna and Black Canary ones just look awkward. Zatanna’s pants in particular look way too baggy. But I dig the Psylocke one.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve been seeing this floating around everywhere and to be honest – I’m not crazy about the majority of them. The only ones I like to any degree are Power Girl’s and Elektra (I’d be a bigger fan of Psylocke’s if her lower half didn’t look so awkward. . I feel like the characters have been lost in a lot of ways in the majority of these designs. The ones that probably bother me the absolute most are Wonder Woman (Who appears to be wearing Khakis underneath her ensemble?), Zatanna (because that is -not- a properly fitted suit, and it seems to be lacking a lot of personality or creativity for someone with her abilities/front) and Supergirl who is just… blech. I love seeing Super Hero Redesigns but I love it when the designs -clearly- speak true to the character themselves.

    I guess at the end of the day is that it’s way too clear that the majority of these are intended to be “modest” and unsexualized which isn’t much different from clearly making them sexualized. Character Design should be about trying to clearly communicate a character’s personality and intent/functionality very clearly and should be the major priority.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think that’s the point they were trying to make at all, especially considering how the majority of male super heroes have rather form fitting outfits as well (which, just speaking in terms of practicality, would make more sense as it would mean less for people to be able to grab/things to get snagged on/etc.)

  • Anonymous

    Nah. We’re just used to superheroes in spandex. All those guys they linked to, who are covered head-to-toe, are pretty much wearing spandex.

  • http://twitter.com/10000_buckets Ten Thousand Buckets

    There’s a world of difference between “baggy” and “skin tight,” and I’d say “a little more formfitting” lives right between the two. Most of these deigns are pretty good, but WW’s layering makes her look like a hobo.

  • Anonymous

    You’re being unfair to him. Like FrayedMachine said, male superheroes are more covered than female superheroes but their costumes are just as tight.

  • Laszlo

    You know very well that’s not what he said. Superhero costumes are usually form-fitting to some degree, be it male or female, it’s become a pretty important part of their image, that’s what he meant when talking about looking more like superheroes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jmcampbell3 Jennifer Campbell

    I don’t think he’s saying that at all. Form fitting and Skin tight are two completely different things. Let’s take Zatana for instance. I love the design, but it looks like she literally raided her dad’s closet. The shirt, vest and pants look like men’s clothes that are 1-2 sizes too big… Which very well may be part of her bg story in his design. Since Zatara is her teacher and father, maybe she wanted to idealize him and steal his clothes. (I know I went through a phase of stealing my fathers dress shirts to pair with other funky items.) So, in the end yeah, she looks a lil frumpy, but hey putting on something more form fitting (IE her own clothes instead of her dads) would make her look more superherione.

  • Anonymous

    Wonder Woman had design a few years back where she was wearing black pants. It looked better than this design.

    My main issue is that most of those costumes look like winterwear. The biggest criticism against superheroines costumes is that their costumes are so revealing, they’re no longer practical. The costumes above look like they would make any sort of physical activities really difficult. I would like someone to give the “Captain Marvel” treatments to those characters and give them costumes that are form fitting without showing too much.

  • http://twitter.com/elwang Pete Pfau

    Yes! The color of those pants is my only issue with the design. All those primary colors, and then…those pants.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    They look perfectly comfortable and allow free movement. Are they bulkier than bodysuits? Yes, but why do they have to wear bodysuits?

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I’ve got this up on my tumblr, I love it. The artist is very explicit that this was an attempt to de-objectify them, but it is not a modesty thing.

  • John Wao

    The only one I don’t like is Wonder Woman and that’s only because the color doesn’t match the rest of her costume. The rest look cool to me.

  • Anonymous

    My statement has nothing to with the idea that other people shouldn’t like this. My statement is very purely a critique on the designs and the execution. But yes, you’ve just re-inforced my statement. My major issue with these is that it’s not about really trying to get the characters across and dressing them in a way that actually makes _sense_ for who they are and what they do, it’s about ‘de-objectifying’ them i.e. making them dress more modestly. If you’re going to try and argue that what they’re all wearing isn’t _incredibly_ modest then I don’t really know what to tell you other than… i don’t know, try and understand that de-objectifying and modesty have a very large grey area where they overlap since modesty is basically _about_ not objectifying yourself/others/etc.

    The major problem that people tend to have with representation of female super heroes is that their character treatment is exceptionally different than male heroes by objectifying them. Male super heroes are dressed and designed for both a.) expression of their character and b.) practicality. These designs, to me, aren’t much different because the completely forgo and bypass both a.) expressing their character and b.) dressing for practicality and go strictly for dressing purely to NOT objectify them. You’re still treating these heroines with extreme difference and prejudice and I don’t… like. that?

  • Anonymous

    I like some of them but the Wonder Woman strikes me as weird – Khakis?! Really?!

  • Anonymous

    If you’re going to be doing a lot of hand to hand combat, you don’t want to wear a lot of loose clothing. It’s also why it’s impractical to have long hair that’s free flowing (something that was ironically overlooked in these designs, too). I feel like there’s a reason why we don’t see a lot of male super heroes with loose fitted clothing…

  • Anonymous

    They don’t have to wear bodysuits, it’s just what Captain Marvel wears. The costume above looks like they’d be too warm and would make someone sweat too much. They look like the kind of clothing my gym teacher didn’t want us to wear during his class in high school.

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    FWIW I love the Zatanna and Black Canary designs. But then I love suits and long coats as well. And who doesn’t love a woman in big Leela-style ass-kickin’ boots?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=3422412 Abhinav Jain

    Loose clothing when you have to fit into tight spaces, grapple hand to hand, and so on? Which superhero would prefer that their clothes are snatched by their opponent because they are loose and baggy? No one. Let’s not forget what happened to a certain superhero in Watchmen.

  • Marina

    “fall on deaf ears”?

    Just because people don’t agree with the tailoring or silhouette doesn’t mean they are sexist or support a double standard. Frumpy and loose fitting are legitimate fashion design criticisms. You can cover-up and de-objectify while still maintaining bold superhero designs. But I would argue that some sexuality is okay. Would you try to completely de-sexualize athletes? No, that’s kind of impossible. Superheroes have the same bold quality. They’re physically impressive and most of them require flexible form-fitting costumes. These look like casual wear.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=3422412 Abhinav Jain

    Form-fitting does not imply skin-tight. These clothes ARE loose-fitting, which defeats the point of them going into combat, especially when they have to do it the good old fashioned way, with hands and fists. You think the villains won’t take the opportunity to upset their balance by grabbing at the hero’s loose clothes? Practicality, people, practicality. The design can be perfectly de-objectified without such loose clothing.

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    Yeah, I didn’t care for the khakis either, but how is that suit not properly fitted? It skims without binding which is nice. The bottoms look at bit like she needs to hike them up, but otherwise good…

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    I used to do office work. A nice properly fitted suit is as comfy as a track suit. The only thing stopping me wearing them all the time is cost.

  • Jeff LaSala

    I’d personally love to see costumes like this get used in the comics. Then suddenly they might be more believable stories, and the comics themselves more accessible. It’s a shame it’s only an experiment.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Have you ever SEEN a gi?

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    It looks to me like the characters are designed a little stockier. Not that their clothes are too big. I thought it was a quirk of the artist.

  • Mina

    I don’t care for a couple of them (something is weird about Wonder Woman’s pants, for instance), but I LOVE some of them (Powergirl isn’t about to fall out of her top!), and I love the project overall, as it shows that female characters can totally be attractive and have snappy outfits while still being practical/less focused on sex appeal.

    Also, I don’t necessarily see the loose fitting nature of some of these problematic for fighting. Karate gis are not form fitting. The loose fit can actually help with better enabling movement, provided it isn’t SO long or baggy that you can trip or get tangled. Maybe something like Zatanna’s is too loose a fit for a fight, but then again, she doesn’t primarily rely on physical abilities anyway.

  • Anonymous

    The way it’s proportioned makes it more true to a child wearing her parent’ clothes. Well fitted suits on both men and women show off more of their form by providing very clean lines.

    A great example of a woman in a well fitted suit – http://media.concreteloop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/1252479381_xc4q4989.jpg

    A great example of a man in a well fitted suit – http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/2013/RedCarpet/RichardMaddenGameofThronesS3Premiere/Richard+Madden+Game+of+Thrones+S3+Premiere+1.jpg

    Clean lines. clean lines. clean lines.

  • Samuel

    Psylock and Elektra’s outfits actually look more legit-ninja with this design.

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    I guess this is style preference? I loooove me some boot cut pants.

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    Also: why all the hate for boot cut pants? They are yummy.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, I have. They also do not do a lot of hand to hand face to face combat. The vast majority of soldiers work with guns and from a relative distance since the side they’re fighting against -also- has guns and are fighting from a distance.

  • Bess Neumeister

    Zatanna does burlesque, why would she wear a suit and pants that don’t fit.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    People who wear gis DON’T DO hand to hand combat, WTF???

    Just to be clear, I did not say G.I. I said, gi, as in karate.

  • Anonymous

    Agreed. None of these redesigns seems baggy enough to be a combat disadvantage.
    Seriously, this is so much worse than spandex and a big trailing cape?
    Besides, how often do you see superheroes in a straight-up, no-powers, no-cheating judo fight? When I think “Zatanna” I don’t think “professional grappler”.

  • Anonymous

    Honey – The vast majority of soldiers work with guns. That’s what I said. Please read it thoroughly.

  • http://twitter.com/Alonzo2469 Saul Silver

    If you want a ‘modest’ Wonder Woman just put her in classic Greek armor!

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    I hate leg skimming pants. Just personal preference…plus I thought her top was skimming and she was drawn a bit stockier than normal? My brain isn’t reading it as loose.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a strong lack of form that’s coming from her upper half that gives it a sense of looseness/sagging material. The fit is just all around wrong, though it could also just be due to a lack of understanding how form works on the artist’s part (which is not meant to be a jab but just an observation from how a lot of the outfits are rendered).

    But not all pants suits needed to be so close fitted. More women wearing pants that look fantastic in them without being as close fitted as the one on Janelle:

    http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/03/in-or-out-kelly-osbourne-2.html

    http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/02/michelle-dockery-in-burberry.html

    http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/2013/Awards/Grammys2013RedCarpetRundown/12.jpg

    At the end of the day, again, it’s about clean lines and the suit reading very very clearly.

  • Anonymous

    Of course not, but it would be nice to see her in a suit that actually -fit-.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I have no idea why you brought soldiers with guns up, it has no bearing on the discussion. You said loose fitting clothes are impractical for hand to hand combat. I said, “Karate Gi” and you brought up soldiers.

    And knock it off with that patronizing “Honey” shit.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Deobjectifying women is NOT sexist, it is a response to a sexist act. Go read some Feminism 101 and get back to me. Or just browse the Hawkeye Initiative.

  • Anonymous

    Starfire was my first thought, too!

    It’s nice to see some practical-type costumes.

  • Samuel

    This. Also, I think the thing a lot of people tend to overlook with form fitting super hero outfits for both men -and- women is the fact that: no material actually works like that. None. Even spandex, which is like tissue, doesn’t cling to muscles like it’s body paint. I suppose rubber gets close, but that’s restrictive and dangerous.

    To wit: All superhero costumes need redesigned to *actually* function. And technically metarch-level superheroes like Superman/Mr. Majestic etc… would just be naked all the time as their suit would be destroyed by just about everything they do.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t like them for what’s probably a rather petty reason: for some reason, I find the suspension of disbelief with superheroes in spandex *easier* than superheroes in loose clothing that a “real person” would wear. Somehow, the theatricality and circus-strongman/acrobat aesthetic meshes better with the idea of superheroes, while having these people flying about lifting cars in “normal” clothing just highlights the inherent ludicrousness of superheroes in general, making a jarring dissonance. It’d be like if they made a “realistic” Superman where he just wore normal red and blue clothes.

    Then again, I also didn’t see much of a difference between skin-tight or form-fitting spandex and exposed skin (on that “body-paint” remark, couldn’t exactly the same be said of the blue parts of Superman’s costume?), so I’m obviously insane.

  • Anonymous

    The point is that war has changed drastically to the age in which soldiers were expected to go running into their enemies with swords and shields in hand. A lot of warfare and conflict is done at a distance with not just guns but bombs, drones, etc. I.E. They are not fighting the same kind of fight that these super heroes are expected to do who ARE running head first into battle.

    Also you said GI, which read as G.I, to me, not my fault you weren’t perfectly clear.

    But again, yeah, I’ve seen them, and I’ve also seen martial arts fights. I’ve seen a lot of people get their gi grabbed onto and it knock them off their form. This is what happens when you wear loose fitted clothing. To try and insinuate that a gi is completely about practicality is also kind of silly. Karate and Martial Arts aren’t inherently about killing and maiming your enemy any more, it’s a concentration that many people do to center themselves and gain more control over their being.

    Also honey, I’ll put it away when you start reading what’s being said instead of flipping your shit.

  • Anonymous

    Yes it is sexist if your idea of de-objectification also forces you to treat them differently than you would a male character.

    Also the Hawkeye Initiative is NOT about dressing female characters in borderline nunnery attire but about forcing the comic book industry to CEASE objectification and TREATING THEM like the male heroes which is what this artist is NOT doing. If you are a treating women differently, be it with hyper conservatism or through objectification because they are women – it is -sexist-. This is why in a lot of hawkeye initiative images you will also see Black Widow present in the pose of the male character if it is a couple’s shot.

    try again.

  • Samuel

    Most if not all of these heroes, and many male heroes, also have capes that would be amazing to strangle them with.

    Capes: The Impractical Fashion Elephant in the Room

    Now I want to see Iron Man wear a cape…

  • Anonymous

    It’s not really a style thing, I just don’t think those designs here look good at all. Like I said, I appreciate the sentiment behind it but I’m just not a fan of a few of these.

  • Anonymous

    And this is why I always refer to The Incredibles because Edna said it best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M68ndaZSKa8

    Capes are by far the most impractical thing a lot of super heroes can have but not all super heroes have capes. Like… actually no, pretty far from the majority of super heroes have capes. In fact I feel like I can name more super heroes that don’t have capes than do. The vast majority of the X-Men to start (minus Storm), same with the majority of the heroes that they chose to redesign. Capes are outfit additions that are pretty much strictly for super heroes who have flight which the majority of them don’t.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    No, its not. This is some really basic stuff. Men and women can’t be treated “equal” across the board for all things, because there are differences in how that “equal” behavior affects men and women. Man wearing bodysuit=/=woman wearing bodysuit.

    And that’s a simplistic reading of the KI. Hawkeye is also a character who wears practical combat attire, and for the purposes of the comics, is redrawn wearing the ridic outfits the characters being spoofed are. Which really demonstrates the ridiculousness of MOST superhero costumes, man or woman.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    “The point is that war has changed drastically to the age in which
    soldiers were expected to go running into their enemies with swords and
    shields in hand. A lot of warfare and conflict is done at a distance
    with not just guns but bombs, drones, etc. I.E. They are not fighting
    the same kind of fight that these super heroes are expected to do who
    ARE running head first into battle. ”

    Still not relevant.

    “Also you said GI, which read as G.I, to me”

    I’m pretty sure if I was saying GI, I’d have capitalized, like you did. Don’t blame me for your reading incomprehension.

    “Also honey, I’ll put it away when you start reading what’s being said instead of flipping your shit.”

    Still a patronizing ass. Thanks for showing you’re a complete waste of time and space! It’s been real, it’s been fun, but it ain’t been real fun.

  • Samuel

    I’m kinda lumping capes/trench coats together. Trench coats are also fairly impractical, unless you are a cowboy/cattle rustler, and it rains like the dickens. I kinda miss when Blade wore a torn up jean jacket, he looked like he was from Street Fighter.

    The worst capes are those ones that go to the wrists, I’m looking at you Banshee.

  • Travis Fischer

    Zatanna would be better if it didn’t look like she were literally wearing her father’s clothes.

    Supergirl is pretty meh. Maybe if the tights were red instead of grey? Either way, not nearly as cool as the redesign from, I wanna say Smallville?, a while back.

    Psylocke looks pretty good. The shoulder armor is kind of silly, but the rest is basically her normal costume with tights underneath.

    Wonder Woman looks extremely overdressed for a warrior based around ancient Greece.

    Power Girl looks good. Iconic looking, nice color scheme, cool design.

    Elektra… see Psylocke.

    Vampirilla? I don’t know enough about the character to make a determination.

    Black Canary looks… meh. Nothing about that outfit really screams super hero. (You see what I did there. :p)

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    The funny thing is I had an actual point (does modest dressing = un-objectification? I’m not sure it does). And I got hung up on pants. I like the last suit pic, btw. I can agree that that fits well. But really there’s no actual body under the pics here. I assumed that this was her actual body shape (smaller boobs, bit of a belly).

  • http://twitter.com/AlexPelayre Alex Pelayre

    My only critique would be that they’re all the same height, and have the same body type.. which takes a lot away from capturing their likeness. But other than that, I do like most of the clothing design choices.

  • Anonymous

    -face palm-

    Alright, I’m giving you a crash course to character design and sexism apparently.

    You’re right, a man wearing a body suit is not the same as a woman wearing one if the woman is wearing one purely to be objectified. Does this mean that you cannot design a woman in more form fitted clothing without her being sexualized? No, of course not, and this is the issue at hand that’s being discussed.

    Here are several redesigns of SuperGirl to start with in which she’s fully clothed but in Super Hero functional attire:

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/–0ZToPig64I/TV2R3ioT3vI/AAAAAAAAB3k/IfP1c8fqM2k/s320/007c.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-etkAxLDY5sA/TVvbVV7L7TI/AAAAAAAAB3U/sgL1UxOs6Yo/s320/005c2.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DiKxWYfzcpo/TVKFAaAkdQI/AAAAAAAAB3E/et_ll8Mv-Qc/s320/004c.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DiKxWYfzcpo/TVI9HZytYiI/AAAAAAAAB20/PoGfCfkIS6k/s320/003c.jpg

    Notice how nothing she’s wearing is inherently offensive but falls in line with the imagery of a super hero – the full body/full coverage spandex close fitting ensemble with/without cape. See? Not sexist, not sexist at all. Completely acceptable and, on top of that, appealing. Part of the appeal is that it’s very clear that she’s getting the same treatment as MALE super heroes in these designs. It’s not different than something you’d see any male super hero wearing.

    here is an example of Wonder Woman being designed in a much more form fitted attire, WITH ARMOR, and an implication of even a corset:

    http://rahzzah.deviantart.com/art/Diana-of-Themyscira-345206066

    Notice how there’s nothing about that that’s objectifying about her. Notice how the design is presented to reflect what she is basically made and centered around doing – kicking ass and taking names. Notice how this is something that you could easily, with very minor changes, make appropriate for a male character.

    THIS is what people are calling for when they are addressing the objectification of female cahracters.

    Here’s a redesign of Psylocke:

    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbpr4hQ7cg1re8ijgo1_500.jpg

    If the capacity to see the female silhouette automatically makes it both A.) Sexual and B.) objectified, you have some serious rethinking to do in terms of what you associate with women and the imagery of women.

    Women CAN and DO wear form fitted clothing without outright being sexy. They CAN and HAVE been redesigned in a way that falls in line with not just how male super heroes are depicted but a way that makes SENSE for THEIR character without losing the appeal of their initial presentation.

    The problem with what you are perceiving as empowering is that it is, in many ways, shunning the female body by stating that what should be seen as “acceptable” and not objectifying is to HIDE it entirely. That’s NOT okay.

    What you seem to be arguing is that you just don’t like how super heroes are designed and that’s fine and that’s YOUR preference but to try and argue that by hiding and almost shunning the presence of a female silhouette is empowering is so painfully sexist that I can’t even.

  • Elisabeth McCumber

    “Like men in drag”? Seriously? Oh my gosh, I don’t know whether to laugh or rage. Since when did “women wearing clothing” become confusable with “men in drag”?

    It’s a pretty interesting experiment; cheers to him for exploring an interesting re-vision.

  • Anonymous

    Re: no actual body – Sorry, I’m not sure I follow. Are you talking about the last image of janelle in the suit? because if there were a suit that I would actually like to see Zatanna in, it’s probably something similar to that. Or are you speaking about the actual redesign of her? To which i see yes, there’s a lack of structure present that reads in how the suit is formed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jill.bakeroliver Jill Baker Oliver

    I’m a bit confused by the people saying that they like Elektra, but not Psylocke, when the outfits allow similar movement and function. Personally, the biggest problem I have with them is the fact that Wonder Woman and perhaps SuperGirl seem to have boots made out of wet muslin. I’m not fond of Wonder Woman’s khaki’s either. Other than that, I think it is a great concept start. People nitpicking on fit need to relax I think. It’s a primary concept to get ideas flowing about how the traditional costumes could be changed. That means if you are going “well, that looks good except for a better tailored suit like thus…” then it did it’s job and made you think of a way she could wear something other than a bodysuit and paint to fight in. And that should make you wonder why she would choose the bodysuit and paint in the first place. That has to be cold.

  • Anonymous

    Bear in mind that spandex is an American superhero trope. It’s not the kind of clothing you see in manga, for example, or wushu films, or even some of the grittier Vertigo titles.

    These costumes are kind of the exception to the rule, but we’ll find all sorts of justifications for genre conventions even when the enemy is frequently in body armor and holding a gun/psychic/on fire.

  • Anonymous

    Honey, you are a total waste of time. You’re so head over heels in love with these designs that you’re incapable of actually seeing what’s being stated. Not only are you disregarding the fact that I clearly admitted my fault in understanding but you’re also missing the fact that a gi is not a fully functionable ensemble and leaves you open to a lot of cheap attacks.

    So please, if you’re going to try and argue something then do so, but honey – you need to cool off.

  • Anonymous

    Gis are designed to be grab-able, but the point stands. An experienced martial artist isn’t constantly tripping over their pants, or getting thrown about like a ragdoll, and presumably the same would hold for people with superhuman powers.

  • Anonymous

    To be honest, I don’t want to open that can of worms because of how borderline sexist a lot of other countries can be, have been, and are in terms of female representation. What we’re speaking in regards is canon to the world these heroes live in, whether you want to argue that it’s “American” is irrelevant.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, true. That’s a personal preference, though. I also quite like the “street magic” vibe this one has going on.

  • Anonymous

    That’s your own preference, then. But it doesn’t take away from the poor taste in design that was presented with it.

  • Samuel

    Wildstorm (Pre-DC buy-out) and Vertigo have always gravitated more towards having at least a few legitimately dressed people on their roster. One of the reasons I stuck to those brands when reading comics.

  • http://rightcrafttool.blogspot.com/ Sign Ahead

    I really like some of these designs, especially Electra and Power Girl. But I want to see more variety in the group.

    I would love to see this project go further and explore what it means for a character to be “fully dressed”. Does it mean that sleeves must go all the way to the wrist? Do neck lines have to cover the collar bones? Is it OK to expose the knees, calves or ankles?

    Right now, it feels like the characters are all using the same (very limited) definition. That’s great for a quick sketching experiment or a strict dress code. But if these characters were to appear in the same comic, I would want to see more individual decisions and personal values. Without that individuality, they wouldn’t feel like fully realized characters.

  • Samuel

    So we are in agreement? Superhero costumes are ridonkulous. I’m gonna go back to reading Empowered now.

    http://mikkororo.tumblr.com/post/36871218826/the-maidman-from-empowered-is-now-my-headcanon-for

    Also Frayed, that “honey” shit was out of line, I’d apologize.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s hear it for baggy khakis, said no one ever.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think -all- super hero costumes are lame and I do prefer the nuwave of super hero outfits that a lot of heroes are getting – specifically the new X-Men that’s being released (has been releaseD? Can’t remember if it’s out yet) where the cast is primarily female and they’re not treated just as sex bots. The detailing and design for them is sick (and I’m not just saying that because Storm has her Mohawk back) but all in all yes, I’d rather see my super heroes looking like this:

    http://rahzzah.deviantart.com/art/Diana-of-Themyscira-345206066

    in general.

  • Samuel

    That’s a nice one, I’ve always been more partial to the armored WW

  • Anonymous

    I think the limited definition is deliberate: he’s restricting the use of spandex to avoid cheating (there’s a lot of “technical” non-nudity in comics, let’s be honest). The effectiveness varies (see: khakis) but it’s an interesting artistic exercise.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think -all- super hero costumes are lame and I do prefer the nuwave of super hero outfits that a lot of heroes are getting – specifically the new X-Men that’s being released (has been releaseD? Can’t remember if it’s out yet) where the cast is primarily female and they’re not treated just as sex bots. The detailing and design for them is sick (and I’m not just saying that because Storm has her Mohawk back) but all in all yes, I’d rather see my super heroes looking like this:

    http://rahzzah.deviantart.com/art/Diana-of-Themyscira-345206066

    in general.

    ETA: And no. insult them or anything to that degree. It started off incredibly sincere and only became condescending when they became defensive over it.

    ETA2: Oops, did not mean to remove that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sebastian-Proano/610127942 Sebastian Proaño

    With the exception of the Zatanna and Electra ones, those look kinda bland and the Black Canary one is really bad.

    The concept is awesome, but the execution is kinda meh…

    Looks more like pirate reinterpretations…

  • ACF

    I think most of these are pretty meh, but I like the Elektra one quite a bit. The Zatanna outfit is nice too, but I’m only passingly familiar with her character, so maybe I’m just more open-minded about the design.

  • http://twitter.com/Taste_is_Sweet Aundrea Singer

    I agree with you re: Superman’s costume (and those of most other male superheroes, for all that). I would say that the difference would be that, despite how form-fitting the male costumes tend to be, their jiggly bits are de-emphasized, rather than the female costumes outlining everything to the point where you could reasonably count pubic hair.

    I agree with a few other comments that the bodies themselves seem to be a bit stubby, but I still like most of the costumes and love the idea. The truth of the matter is that most superheroines aren’t put in ridiculously skimpy or tight outfits for the sake of their ‘characters’; it’s for the sake of the men doing the drawings.

  • Anonymous

    That’s what I thought! Maybe a darker shade of blue? Otherwise, these are ALL great!

  • ACF

    Actually, traditional ninja’s just dressed like whoever they were trying to blend in with (usually peasants), so these outfits, while slightly more ninja-y, I suppose, are still pretty far away.

  • http://www.facebook.com/KozmikPariah Ryan Colson

    “i’ve an idea.. let’s put pants on the barelegs and call it striking!”

  • Canisa

    It doesn’t matter for shit whether you were ‘being sincere’ or not (even if it did matter, you clearly weren’t); using a patronising pet name when arguing with a woman is shitty behaviour.

  • Samuel

    Eh. Unless you are someone’s SI or close friend, calling anyone “Honey” is pretty universally understood to be either patronizing and or condescending. It’s like calling someone “child” when you aren’t a preacher. It’s a dismissive nickname and typically can be left on the sidelines given that we are all adults here and at worst, have screen names that can be used if the “X replies to Y” tag on your post didn’t already make it clear who you’re talking to.

  • Anonymous

    tthaankk. yoouuu.

  • Anonymous

    That’s not the point I was making. Your argument above was that baggy clothing was not a legitimate, convenient, or realistic choice for combat. I was pointing out that there are plenty of media where this is not the case, and our acceptance of skin-tight clothing is largely a genre convention, and not based on realism.

    Basically, it seems like you’re giving these characters’ standard costumes a lot more justification than they deserve. If we’re having a conversation about realistic character designs, it’s worth questioning the assumptions about what constitutes “realistic”. Canon isn’t created in a quarantine bubble.

  • Myomorph

    I think most of these are brilliant. I’m not someone who’s comfortable showing a lot of skin with costumes so everytime I choose a character/theme I tend to make similar choices. Now I want to be Zatanna next.

  • Anonymous

    You also have to realize that the concept of Super Heroes is originally Western, so again, I don’t know why it was relevant. Their origin is based in a universe in which their attire is set up for a pretty specific reason and is canon so I don’t know why ou brought it up.

    There is a certain level of realism that comes with their design. Even looking at the new Avengers movie, seeing Captain America’s design. Over all he was wearing form fitted clothing. It was -armored- and made of -bullet proof- material. it was a rather detailed and realistic rendition of what is drawn in comics (which often times they omit that much detail for not just time but also for financial reasons).

    If you don’t like how super heroes are designed that’s completely fine. But realistically speaking in the world that they exist and are designed to exist in, these are not practical outfits. I also fail to see why people who want to move quickly and be on their toes with no issue would outright CHOOSE to wear clothing that is easily grappable. If you’re a martial artist and do it for training purposes then fine, that’s canon in that realm, but for the kinds of characters that are being discussed, it’s not and also wouldn’t, even in this reality, outright make sense for them.

  • http://rightcrafttool.blogspot.com/ Sign Ahead

    I agree. Although he didn’t list them in his Tumblr post, it looks like the illustrator followed the same set of rules for every sketch: And that sounds like a fun exercise.

    It would be great to see the next step. Right now (to me, to me at least), many female comic book characters are dressed to please a segment of fans (which is why we see so many goofy, revealing costumes), or the illustrator himself or herself (which is how we get things like this collection of sketches).

    But how would these characters dress themselves? Based on her history and personality, what would Wonder Woman consider to be “fully dressed”? How about Black Canary or Power Girl? And what would those decisions tell us about the characters?

    To me, that’s a big evolutionary step for comics. I would love to see it happen in the books I read, and I would love to to see more fan art that explores it.

  • Anonymous

    i still don’t care as it was done sincerely and not initially done to be patronizing. I’m not apologizing because they instantly became defensive, even AFTER outright laughing LOLROFLMAO at something that was stated as a pure misunderstanding. But then again I also have my big girl panties on today.

  • Anonymous

    Wompwompwomp.

  • http://elisabethflaum.wordpress.com/ Elwyne

    I would totally cosplay these outfits. (Except maybe Wonder Woman… that one’s a bit weird.)

  • Samuel

    Cap Am still wore pants.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah – Well fitting pants. What’s your point?

  • Samuel

    Just that cargo pants/combat fatigues + combat boots are probably the best way to go all around, for everyone. And tights can be pretty darned cold, I always wondered why non-armored, spandex Batman can stand still on a high rise for hours on end and *not* freeze his nuts off.

  • Anonymous

    SIGH.

    >>>>>> it was a rather detailed and realistic rendition of what is drawn in comics (which often times they omit that much detail for not just time but also for financial reasons).<<<<<<<<

  • Samuel

    I guess we are just evaluating the looseness on the pants differently. I’m not really seeing anything overtly loose in the pants with the exception of Zatanna and Black Canary. Zatanna’s skillset being magic, her garb could be the incredibly loose and impractical robe and wizard hat, and it wouldn’t matter. Black Canary’s flaring boot cut is fairly reminiscent of the pants worn by parkour athletes, who prefer fairly loose pants for maximum freedom of movement, and long enough for covering skin on rolls. Wonder Woman’s pants, while I agree their color clashes with the rest of the outfit, I don’t feel are too loose.

  • Anonymous

    Right. pants that collect a ton of folds at points of tension are completely not loose, man. Let alone a ton of fabric hanging off of you – totally form fitting.

  • Alissa Adams

    I dunno, it might just be that I’m under-caffeinated, but Zatanna’s leg-torso proportion looks a little off. Maybe that’s why the pants seem baggy.

  • http://twitter.com/Super_Widget Joanna

    I always thought Canary would look better in a pair of jeans and biker boots.

  • http://twitter.com/Super_Widget Joanna

    Power Girl looks like a pirate actually.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I’d just love to know where everyone is finding all this spandex that is completely NOT GRABABLE!!!!

  • http://twitter.com/o6untouchable Jason Atkins

    I agree with you about liking the sentiment, but not being 100% on the execution.

    It’s not that I don’t like that particular fashion style: I just think it’s impractical for those particular characters. Black Canary is a martial artist, but the sleeves on her jacket are going to be too restrictive on her arms, and those pant legs are going to snag on her heels and cause problems. Supergirl has gone from having a cheerleading mini-skirt – something designed to allow as much freedom of movement as possible for gymnastics – to a much tighter skirt that is going to restrict her ability to move her legs. Wonder Woman is a very active and gymnastic combatant, but she’s got too much weight and chunkiness to restrict her movements.

    I’m all for seeing heroes in outfits that are more protective of their bodies and modesty, but I’d prefer it if they at least continued to be practical. Say what you want about Black Canary’s traditional outfit: it has a lot of similarities with what ballet dancers wear, so maybe she’s on to something as far as freedom of movement goes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/moriah.davis.7 Moriah Davis

    I don’t really like ‘em, to be completely honest. Some of them are cool, but just so extremely baggy! I’m not saying they need to be like vacuum-sealed to their bodies, but look at the examples you showed for the male heroes. Capes aside on Batman and Supes, those are all very form fitting costumes!
    For me the problem with heroines lies more in their physical proportions than in the costumes. Meh, there’s my two cents.

  • Ms. Sunlight

    Think of a karate gi, taekwondo suit, capoeira trousers or what a modern frontline soldier wears in combat – these are not tight-fitting. It always makes me laugh when people say that spandex is the most practical or that baggy clothes will necessary hinder. There are lots of practical ways to dress for combat.

  • Nick Gaston

    One issue with Zatanna—granted, there are many design choices when going with a magician’s outfit, but she’s missing one critical part:

    She needs a tie.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    And the fact that you have to iron that pleat going down the front. Impractical!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/bonnie.stone.39 Bonnie Stone

    I love these! I do have to agree though, WW’s pants don’t do the rest justice

  • Emily

    I love Michael Lee Lunsford’s art and I think he did really good overall. I like a few of the designs better then the originals, like Supergirl, Zatanna and Elektra. Yeah a couple don’t quite make it, but I’d say the majority are interesting.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    I have so not found this to be true. Maybe it depends on body type? I’m even more comfortable in jeans and a corset than my properly-fitted office suit, which restricts my arms in particular.

  • Chris Stehlik

    I don’t see them as being baggy. Especially not Psylocke, Supergirl or Powergirl. That’s a normal fit for clothes. It’s not skin tight. It’s comfortable.

  • Anonymous

    I like the idea, but Zatanna and Wonder Woman do look a bit frumpy, the layering on WW is just awkward, and wouldn’t it still be modest if Zatanna’s suit had at least been tailored to fit her? The rest look fabulous though.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t like the pants on Wonder Woman – they look out of place with the rest of the outfit. I like everything else though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dessa-Brewington/721495970 Dessa Brewington

    To be fair, that Wonder Woman IS pretty frumpy. The rest are great though!

  • http://www.facebook.com/steph.cherrywell Steph Cherrywell

    I like Zatanna’s and Wonder Woman’s (she looks like a real tank there!), and I love this look for Supergirl; it’s youthful and fun and avoids that weird high-neck, bare legs look that’s going on in the comics. Kind of wish some of these were the real designs.

  • Mina

    I see so many people saying the outfits are baggy or frumpy. Some of them are looser fitting, to be sure, but I’m not convinced they’re genuinely baggy. It looks to me on closer inspection that the artist just drew the characters with bodies that aren’t as thin/curvaceous (less dramatic waistlines and the like), so their clothes actually DO fit them pretty well. It’s their bodies, not their clothes, that are bigger. Wonder Woman, for instance, is not actually in bulky clothing (kind of weird clothing, but not particularly bulky). She’s just been drawn as a muscular size 8 instead of a slender and curvy size 2, leading to an overall bulkier appearance. A lot of them have shorter legs too, which adds to that effect.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robothobbitafisher Abby Fisher

    Huh. I could cosplay as that Zatanna.

  • Mina

    Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking too. Once I got past the, “Huh? These clothes make her look bigger” reaction, I looked closer and realize that it’s not the clothes. She actually IS bigger. That is, she is less curvy. Her waistline really IS smaller. Her boobs really ARE smaller. Her legs really ARE a bit thicker. It’s not the clothes at all. And once I realized that she just genuinely seems to have been drawn with a different body type than we normally see her with, I liked the clothes just fine. If I saw them on a real person with that body type, I think they’d look like they fit.

  • http://ravenlunatick.wordpress.com/ ravenlunatick

    Sorry, I meant the redesign in my last two sentences, not the photos. I kinda changed direction in the middle there…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maricruz-Villalobos-Zamora/100000331523296 Maricruz Villalobos Zamora

    I don’t like Diana’s Pants, and I admit I think part of what I love about Power Girl is that she’s confident enough to wear a Boob-window. Aside from that it’s great, Supergirl’s specially perfect

  • Guest

    I can’t

  • Anonymous

    Yes she’s drawn with a different body type but even with those changes in proportions that is -not- how clothing would actually fit on someone unless what you were wearing was way too large for you. If clothing HANGS off of you, there’s a serious lack of structure – ergo a fit that is too large, whether intended or not.

  • Anonymous

    As people have already explained, these articles you are referring to are often times -meant- to be grappled. Outside of those arenas, why would someone outright choose to dress that way when dealing with hand to hand combat? It’s like saying that having your hair out when it’s long is completely okay when fighting even though that very blatantly leaves you open to have it grabbed.

  • Mina

    That’s just it though. I don’t think the clothes ARE hanging off her. I think everything is pretty much right against her body. I’m pretty sure that outfit would fit me very much the same. I KNOW I have some pants that look just like that on me. I don’t know. It just doesn’t read as legitimately big on her to me. Maybe it’s a tailoring preference.

  • Anonymous

    … They are.

    Notice the complete lack of points of tension in what she’s wearing. When clothing is fitted, you can see at points of tension that there are actual folds that appear. Not even her vest, let alone the shirt she’s wearing underneath, shows any sort of folding that could give an indication that it’s fitted. Not only that but the proportions of the top on her are pretty poor, too.

    If pants fit like that on you then you’re not wearing properly fitted pants, I’m sorry. Speaking just purely from a design aspect, it’s pretty atrocious. Look above for examples of properly fitted suits. What she’s wearing is not properly fitted.

  • Mina

    You’re only going to see folds of tension in fitted women’s clothing if the woman is curvy. If a woman has a more straight figure, like the figures popular in the 20s, her fitted clothing will not fold or have much tension. It will fit more like a man’s. That’s what I see happening here, and I don’t dislike it. I certainly do not feel it is objectively WRONG (nor are my own pant fits, thank you very much).

    My point is, different people are going to prefer different fits, and I see no reason to think Zatanna would never ever wear a “boyfriend fit” suit, especially if she did happen to be less curvy. Obviously you disagree though.

  • Anonymous

    No, you’re really not. If you can see points of tension on -men- (like… I don’t know, here: http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/2013/Editorials/JamesMcAvoyEUEA13/James+McAvoy+EUEA13+3.jpg, or here http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/2013/Editorials/GQApril2013BatemanMarsFallon/GQ+April+2013+Bateman+Mars+Fallon+1.jpg, or here http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/2013/Editorials/GQApril2013BatemanMarsFallon/GQ+April+2013+Bateman+Mars+Fallon+3.jpg or here http://wpc.4d27.edgecastcdn.net/004D27/Men%20on%20the%20Red%20Carpet/EwanMcGregorVivienneWestwoodTIMPRC/Ewan+McGregor+VW+TIRC+2.jpg), you can see it on women, regardless of their body type. The point of a suit is to be -form fitting-, which means points of tension are going to occur. The only way in which it will not be seen is if you have something that is especially structured, like a corset or are wearing something that is made with very stiff material, which nothing that the artist has done has given us any indication of any of these things.

    I have friends of all different body types, have drawn women and men of all different body types. The only way you will not have any point of tension what so ever occur is if you are literally a piece of wood with fabric hanging off of you (wait, actually no, that’s a lie because you’ll STILL have points of tension with that, too!).

    Like I’ve said, you can have your preference. It doesn’t mean, however, that it is A.) Good or B.) appealing. Preferences are objective, not everyone has to accept it, And the fact that many people have complained about the look of these kind of shows that what you think is nice isn’t universal, but at least the people with complaints can actually justify it past “I think it’s pretty”.

  • http://goodwillhunting4geeks.blogspot.com/ The Goodwill Geek

    Exactly. Pleated pants with wrinkles making them look sort of half-heartedly stuffed into the boots… in grandpa brown… ugh. But I like the rest of her look.

  • http://goodwillhunting4geeks.blogspot.com/ The Goodwill Geek

    I actually really like Zatanna’s and and Black Canary’s looks but find Power Girl and Supergirl’s costumes really off-putting somehow. I think the bulkiness of their outfits actually takes away from their presence somehow. I’m not arguing for cheesecake here but even with male “mega-power” heroes like Superman it always seems like the bulkier the costumes look, the less powerful they seem. I think I would actually have preferred a more form-fitting outfit like Psylocke and Elektra are wearing.

  • http://goodwillhunting4geeks.blogspot.com/ The Goodwill Geek

    I love that the women are all a bit more realistic in how their bodies are proportioned as well… but I agree. There’s a certain flashiness lost in some of these outfits. Power Girl doesn’t need to have a giant window across her boobs and a bikini bottom to look striking… but the outfit she’s wearing here looks a little too much like she’s dressed for a U.N. meeting (like a formal super-business suit kind of thing) rather than actual crime fighting. Is that realistically a bad thing? No I guess not… but when you make the costumes utilitarian or drab, you get into the “why do heroes wear costumes at all?” territory. There is some flash and awe involved. Some of these just don’t have that.

  • http://anna.balasi.com/ AnnaB

    Love all except the Wonder Woman one. That one looks like she put on pants because her ultra conservative grandmother made her wear it to hide her legs.

  • Mina

    I never said that what I think is nice is universal. I was merely pointing out that what YOU think is nice is also not universal. :P

    I keep going back to 20s fashion and seeing that sometimes even suits are intended to fit loosely rather than be form fitting. And really I think the thing here is less that her clothes are hanging and more that her pants are very low waisted, which when coupled with a button up shirt WILL give the impression of less figure.

    It just seems that you are determined to prove that I am wrong about how clothes are SUPPOSED to fit, when I’m only trying to point out there is no universally “correct” way clothes should look and fit. Is this Zatanna’s style my preference? No. I’d rather see her in some higher wasted pants and a shorter vest, both of which would lengthen the legs and shorten the torso. But that doesn’t mean longer torso and looser fit are WRONG. Fashion is very fluid and there was a time that this was exactly the look people were going for. It’s not the look I would prefer but I don’t think it’s WRONG. The objections most people have raised beyond a simple “I think these clothes are ugly/frumpy” is that they are too loose for fighting. But is looseness going to affect Zatanna’s magic abilities? Not so much. That leaves only style objections, and I’m just trying to point out that style preferences aren’t universal at all, so why should Zatanna’s style choices match any of ours exactly?

  • http://discord-inc.tumblr.com/ James Fletcher

    She actually looks like she stole the pants from Twilight Princess Link, which is a story I realize I would totally read.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not arguing about what’s nice and what isn’t. I’m stating a fact – That is not a well fitted suit.

    Regardless of what arbitrary sentiment you might have towards these designs holds absolutely no value what so ever in relationship to that fact. Suits are meant to be properly fitted and well proportioned. Regardless of how you FEEL, that does not change that reality.

    Again, look at the examples provided. If someone were to wear a suit that looked like that to an actual event, they would be laughed at due to how poorly constructed and proportioned it is.

    I’m sorry but regardless of how you -feel-, it does not justify calling a poorly fitted and designed suit successful. Take it or leave it, I don’t care. But that’s not how a GOOD suit is supposed to look.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=46211682 Stephen D. Joyce

    The Power Girl and Supergirl ones are great!

  • Mina

    I disagree. How a person feels about their own fashion has a lot to do with whether it is “successful.” If a person’s clothes represent the look they were going for, then they are successful. Your idea that this suit is wrong all wrong hinges, I think, on the assumption that Zatanna would never actually want to dress that way, which may be true. But it doesn’t mean this is a wrong fashion choice. When I see someone wearing an unusual fashion with confidence because that is the look they wanted (at an actual event? Not sure what you mean by event), my reaction is not typically laughter. Usually it’s, “Huh. If I tried to wear that, I’d feel like a moron. But somehow she’s pulling it off.” This is a fashion that I would alter somewhat if I were wearing it for myself, but on someone who was going for that look? I’d probably be fine with it.

    Anyway, my original point in this before we went off on the tangent of how clothes are “supposed” to fit was that I don’t think her clothes are unfitted or too big. I really am seeing this more as her body being bigger. Her vest CAN’T come in closer on her waist because it’s already there–her waist IS that big. It can’t be more fitted beneath her boobs because her boobs are flatter and there’s just not far to tuck in before the vest is at her rib cage. Her pants CAN’T be more narrow because her hips and thighs are genuinely that wide. I think you’re reading it as her body is smaller than that and is being swamped beneath bags of fabric. My reading is that her body IS that size and the clothes are right against it already (though it’s hard to tell precisely what her body shape is doing because the coat hides part of her waistline and hips). We’re apparently never going to agree that that is what her body is like and that is how those types of clothes would fit a real person with that body though, so I guess I have nothing more to say. Have a nice day, and may all your suits be fitted.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=3422412 Abhinav Jain

    Once again, you are confusing form-fitting with tight-fitting. I encourage you to look up the difference.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003037095323 Jerilyn Nighy

    Zatanna looks like the corporate middle managers at my work. The rest would function as good cold-weather gear, though I doubt Diana feels the effects of weather, and the Elektra’s costume is what she should’ve had all along. Very appropriate for a martial artist/assassin/stealthy ninja character.

  • http://twitter.com/AudreyZao Audrey Zao

    This series might be better if it were called “Female Super Heroes if They Were Post-Grads Trying to Get a Job But Stay True to Themselves.” I wooouuuullllddd love to see these Super Heroes dressed realistically: The best shoes for running (I mean heals… really?) or shorts under the skirts (to feel free to move, but not for creepy guys to oggle as she does a flip). Wearing heavy pleats to fight crime isn’t quite the same. It’s a nice sentiment, but done either without any idea on how to dress a woman or a poor attempt by a guy who doesn’t quite *get it* to attract the growing feminist audience.

  • http://www.facebook.com/callie.macdonell Callie MacDonell

    Nice concept! The execution could’ve been better though. Many of these were well done. Electra was great! But, fully clothed doesn’t have to mean baggie or mannish. It can all be done well while retaining their femininity. The khaki on Wonder Woman was a bad call. I wear leggings and tight jeans out all the time, that would’ve made a lot of these better. Zatanna’s outfit could’ve been really cute but, it just looks like she’s wearing a man’s suit. Tailoring and female high fashion clothing reference would’ve helped this concept really stand out.

  • Peter Bradley

    They all look bulky and have too many pieces of clothing that can snag on hazards in combat. Not practical, any of these designs.

  • Anonymous

    I am a little fed up with the idea that somehow the costume must be non-bodysuit style to be combat effective. As someone else pointed out in the comments here, even the men are most efficient looking in something that gets the extra material out of their way. They tend to be accenting their musculature, but this makes sense if they are “super” as they would tend to be fit physically and strong. Why do athletes’ uniforms for almost all sports -especially the most vigorously requiring flexibility and smooth motions or contact sports (gymnastics, dance,wrestling, football) – have the least amount of extra material getting in the way? It is not just to be able to see the movements, it’s to prevent extra stuff getting tangled up as you twist and flip around, as well as the far more practical lack of something for an opponent to grab onto to put the wearer at disadvantage.

    The men’s costumes are often form fitting but we just don’t think of Superman’s as “revealing” because the only part of the male anatomy we get blush-y over in our culture concerning MEN is the actual sex organs themselves. We don’t associate shame or overt sexuality with a shirtless man exposing his nipples if it’s hot outside. And why the need to un-sexualize the superheroine and not the hero? Let’s face it, POWER and STRENGTH and being a super being is going to be an attractive quality that stimulates the desire to mate with them and ensure the survival of potential young no matter if the desirable qualities are overtly displayed or just inherently obvious.

    To illustrate what I mean, consider would anyone be talking about how the costumes objectified the heroes if they weren’t the embodiment of the lean muscled athletic perfection? The more challenging social experiment type of design challenge is not about the COSTUME and how it clings or not to a very attractively proportioned hero of whatever sex, but rather to design a heroic PERSON with a less than ideal body type in the first place. What if Wonder Woman and Black Canary were closer to a pear shape rather than hourglass? How about Batman with the beer belly or Aquaman with back hair?

    AND as far as the sexy goes, a woman like Diana who is not even distracted by modesty or body awareness at all is just HOT already. That her opponents are perhaps even further muddled by their desire is just another advantage in her corner. People who are comfortable in their own sexuality are powerful in that alone in our repressed and hung up society today. Anyone who doesn’t feel a little powerful when they feel sexy or a little sexy when they feel powerful is probably disconnected from passion entirely, and there is little reason that a passionless person would be motivated to be a super hero in the first place.

    Leave it alone – sexy and super are part of the same family.The sexual tone associated with tight clothing is more to do with they eye of the beholder and our own culture’s puritan hangups about sexuality and the human body in general, I think. But from a purely practical standpoint, if one is to design clothing that actually gives the wearer unrestricted movement and minimal stuff to grab during a tussle, spandex probably really is the ideal way to go. Frankly a BALD female hero wouldn’t even have to worry about having their hair pulled, and we know how many chick-fights usually lock up right there..

  • http://twitter.com/kaitzi K G

    If you have a “problem” with these costumes, you’re sexist. You don’t have to “like” them, but all “problems” stem from a double-standard.

    So this has been making the rounds and the comment that keeps cropping up is “now the costumes are overly bulky!” But….this is absolutely untrue, and it pisses me off.

    The only person whose design is “bulky” is Zatanna’s – but if you compare it to her counterpart, Zatara, it’s not “overly” bulky in comparison – it’s AS bulky. But we don’t complain about Zatara’s “overly bulky” costume, do we? Personally, I don’t LIKE Zatanna’s costume – it looks sloppy (with the undershirt showing from below the vest….tuck that shit in, Zatanna), but it’s not a matter of “bulk” which is what so many people are complaining about. Most of the “bulk” seems to be coming from the fact that these heroines have internal organs – something we’re not used to seeing on our comic women. Most the fabric is still pretty form-fitting.

    Also, people have said the costumes are too loose and will snag. I’m not seeing that at all! What I’m seeing are a few crease marks at the joints – indicating the fabric is not painted on. Even form-fitting yoga pants will do this. And in terms of “snagging” it’s amazing – a superhero can wear a full length cape and cloak and that’s fine, a superheroine can wear a flowy skirt (the better for upskirt shots) and it’s fine (“oh, it’s totally to allow her freedom of movement) and that’s fine but when a superheroine wears a long shirt, suddenly she’s in danger of snagging – because shirts are more prone to snagging than capes or skirts? WHAT?

    I don’t “like” all of these designs. I don’t “like” all the colors, and I don’t like that almost everyone’s wearing a tunic and/or can’t tuck their shirt in. But “problems” such as additional “bulk” and “snagging” are not there, and it’s depressing that people even feel they are.

  • http://twitter.com/kaitzi K G

    Points of tension rely on tension points. When someone is standing straight up, there are very few tension points (e.g. the thighs actually comes out further than the knees, and do not create a “point”). I don’t like many of these designs, but none of them are showing the massive amounts of fabric you claim they are. I think you’re simply used to seeing women in impossible poses in skintight clothing that “resting-state”, fully-clothed women are breaking your head and making you think it’s wrong.

    It’s not your fault you’ve been conditioned to think this, but it is your fault if you continue with your denial when the facts are right in front of your face.

  • http://twitter.com/kaitzi K G

    I semi-agree with point a) but disagree entirely with point b).
    Regarding a) I agree that these redesigns don’t fully suit the characters, however the real problem with that lies in the fact that the artist wanted to make them recognizable and keep most the original designs – and the ORIGINAL designs were not make to express the character, only objectify. So while I agree with you on that point, I don’t believe it was the fanartist’s fault, but the original artists’.

    Regarding point b) they ARE practical. Countless women have told you how practical these designs are compared to the originals. Why are you still not getting it. Given the choice of taking a kickboxing class in some cargo pants and sneakers or in a leotard with fishnets and high heels, I will go with the cargo pants and sneakers. Because that’s more practical.

  • Anonymous

    most of them are pretty good. I think the ones with pants tend to look the most off. Zatana for one I like her design but that drawing just doesn’t do it for me. Same with Black Canary

    Psylock and Power Girl are awesome though, Elecktra too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pat.durkin.92 Pat Durkin

    too many “just add pants” designs and sorry, Vampirella *not* wearing a revealing outfit is so… not. Like Judge Dredd without his helmet on. I do like Electra’s look

  • Kate Galey

    Wow, you’re a laugh a minute. I’m not sure if you know this, kiddo, but the “You’re angry and irrational and I can’t even talk to you!” attitude makes you look like a fool. And a poor loser. Because deflecting the debate by trivializing your opponent’s opinion doesn’t actually count as winning.

  • Anonymous

    Right, because your poorly formed ad hominem is way better.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, form fitted clothes DO have folds. They, however, do not bag, nor do they form folds around points of tension the way that what she, and all the other women illustrated here, are wearing.

  • Anonymous

    There are also a number of people who have pointed out how IMPRACTICAL this clothing is. People who use examples such as Gi to prove their point don’t realize that this is an ensemble MADE to be grabbed. Ergo, why would you ACTIVELY choose to wear that in a fight?

    Jesus H. Christ, god damn I am so tired of repeating myself. No one’s saying that people should wear a leotard and fishnets and heels, and the idea that a woman wearing form fitted clothing is by default sexualized is god damn repulsive, holy hell. Good job sexism!

  • Anonymous

    You are not debunking my argument what so ever. Form fitted clothing does not bag and fold at points of tension re: everything depicted here. Try again.

    I’m not conditioned to think anything, I’m just educated in how to actually properly DRAW clothing to translate well. I think you should probably, Oh, I don’t know, read the incredibly thorough reply I’ve already made previously regarding this instead of making me repeat myself because I’m not going to.

    Form fitting =/= Skin Tight.
    Form Fitting =/= Sexualized.

    Try again.

  • Anonymous

    DC Captain Marvel or Marvel Captain Marvel?

  • http://www.facebook.com/evan.duberman Evan Duberman

    Very interesting, but from an artistic point, I have to critique a few flaws.

    I’ve wanted Zatanna out of fishnet stockings for a long time, but dress pants should not be that baggy.

    I don’t know if it’s the color of Wonder Woman’s pants, but she feels a little “boxy”. She should probably work better taller, to bring home the “Amazon feeling”.

    Psylocke looks amazing, but I can’t help but feel like her arms should be visible. Just loose the grey parts of her sleeve. It just gives a more agile feeling.

    Powergirl’s jacket should be shorter. The point of a long jacket is usually as a replacement for a cape. Use one or the other.

    I can’t believe I’m saying this… BUT…. Supergirl’s skirt should be shorter. I can’t help but feel like a long skirt over pants would just be unwieldy and hard to maneuver in.

  • Anonymous

    Marvel Captain Marvel.

  • Anonymous

    ahh… don’t know who that is then. Only heard of him.

  • Anonymous

    Her. The former Ms. Marvel now goes by the title of captain. You can see her new costume here:

    http://marvel.wikia.com/Captain_Marvel_Vol_7_9

  • http://www.facebook.com/rachel.lilly14 Rachel Lilly

    Generally, if you put those clothes on a real woman, they would look like real bad-asses.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001147897223 Joshua Davis

    don’t like the wonder woman outfit, khakis does not suit her, maybe some gold leggings.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maggi.mossbrucker Maggi Gracely

    The most awesome design I ever saw of Wonder Woman was in the Flashpoint. I LOVED it! So badass and very much what I would like her to be, but still WW.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maggi.mossbrucker Maggi Gracely

    No hand to hand combat in Karate? What kind of teacher did you have??

  • http://www.facebook.com/DAISHIGAJO Jason Rodriguez

    … In a ring. In a controlled fight. That’s different from a street fight.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Bazilio/100000132443742 Eric Bazilio

    I just loved Zatanna’s snazzy pants!

    You’d think they could be a big disadvantage in combat, but with her particular powers, I believe she could get away with it.

    Diana’s khaki pants are way too jarring though.

  • http://twitter.com/CherriFaerii ♡ Lexi Caballero ♥

    Just popping in to say that I love all of these redesigns, even Diana’s, and our lady heroes need to be more covered when fighting bad guys. (And bared boobs, big or not, would be a gigantic disadvantage in combat. Come on, guys, everyone likes to aim for the heart!)

  • http://www.facebook.com/napalmnacey Nancy Lorenz

    The idea is cool but the style choices in some of these kinda take away from the visual power of the characters. That said, I *love* the lines on Psylocke and Elektra. But I’m a costuming nerd and anatomy buff. Functional but stylish is my mantra.

  • Bryan Richards

    I feel that zatanna’s outfit is the one that loses the most because of the character. She has powers not armor, and she is a magic performer. Just a feeling, and likely based off of female magic performer tradition of being scantily clad I suppose. If it is merely an argument from tradition then that assumption of mine should be the first to go.

  • Darth Credence

    I really like most of the designs, except for some of the boots. (A few just look weirdly bunched up.)
    I would completely support those as being the default looks for the heroes.

  • Anonymous

    I love the idea, and a few of the designs are fine. However, I’m not fond of the artist’s particular style. The characters look to be of the same height and build (long torsos, short legs), and facial-features that are too similar, all of which of which are pet-peeves of mine. Still, kudos for doing it at all!

  • Matthew Spencer

    The point about prudishness still stands. Fully clothed or not, if you can see defined abs, pecs, and ass, then male superhero costumes are at least somewhat sexualized. For further reference consult Joel Schumacher.

  • LearnLinguistics

    Some of the costumes are well done. I don’t like the loose fitting
    pants, that looks odd and I imagine would be difficult to fight in.
    Wonder Woman looks horrible (what’s with the brown pants/leggings?), Black Canary is okay, but could be better. Power Girl has received a much needed make over!

  • Killua19

    I dont like Power girl and Wonder Woman..altough more for the Style rather then the Idea. Wonder Woman seems a bit to much “Knight” for me and Power Girl kinda reminds me of a Musketeer xD But everything else..is actually really cool. Specially the Zantanna one..Would totally use that

  • Charlie

    I love supergirls outfit here. I saw a guy comment ‘She looks like she’s wearing a mumu’ No she doesn’t… the bottom of her shit isn’t that much longer than the skirts I’ve seen her in.

  • Stephanie Morales

    I don’t get why all of the legs are boxy and bulky in oversized pants, and some clothes are just oversized and “frumpy” looking, and I am a feminist who thinks many of the original costumes were TOO unrealistic, but this is just AS unrealisitc but the pendulum swung in the complete opposite direction!

  • Anonymous

    “Tragically, superheroes Batwoman and Zatanna were killed today. Batwoman was killed when the cuff on her new costume caught on an outcropping piece of metal, causing her to lose her balance and fall to her death. Zatanna was killed when she when she was unable to move quickly enough due to the constraints of her new costume.
    “This is tragic,”said superhero Superman, who was wearing his traditional skin-tight costume, “but at least they weren’t showing too much skin.”

  • Malaria Lynne Piercy

    I think she’s meant to look reminescent of a cowboy hence the khakis.

  • Scott

    Superman then flew off, and while far too smug to notice, got his cape caught on a stone gargoyle. Superman and his cape were unharmed, but the gargoyle’s head was snaped off and fell on a puppy. Said puppy is not expected to make it.

    oh no wait, Superman is a man. so only he can learn how to quickly and regularly accommodate for that sort of thing.

  • Anonymous

    FryaedMachine, you are an asshat. That’s just science.

  • Anonymous

    I know you are, but what am I! (sticks tongue out)

  • Anonymous

    “big girl panties” in this case probably means diapers…

  • Anonymous

    Wow, you’re so clever that it apparently took you 7 months to come up with a reply to my statements. Go you.

  • Anonymous

    7 months to come up with that, huh? You deserve a cookie.

  • Clevername

    It wasn’t meant as an example of “better” design for these characters. It was purely an artistic challenge. The artist decided to experiment in creating outfits that aren’t skintight and aren’t revealing. That’s all this was.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that this was absolved from any possibility of critique. On a design level, both in terms of practicality and a design sense, these don’t succeed for the aforementioned reasons.

    Literally can’t believe people are still replying to this. But sure, let me repeat myself for the umpteenth time.