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What's with the name?

Allow us to explain.

Guardians of the Galaxy Director James Gunn Apologizes


James Gunn, the director tapped by Marvel Entertainment to bring the Guardians of the Galaxy to the big screen, has released a statement of apology through the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, and you should all read it. It’s gracious, sincere, and refreshing.

Here’s the full text, published by GLAAD and Gunn on his own Facebook page:

A couple of years ago I wrote a blog that was meant to be satirical and funny.  In rereading it over the past day I don’t think it’s funny.  The attempted humor in the blog does not represent my actual feelings.  However, I can see where statements were poorly worded and offensive to many.  I’m sorry and regret making them at all.  People who are familiar with me as evidenced by my Facebook page and other mediums know that I’m an outspoken proponent for the rights of the gay and lesbian community,  women and anyone who feels disenfranchised, and it kills me that some other outsider like myself, despite his or her gender or sexuality, might feel hurt or attacked by something I said.  We’re all in the same camp, and I want to do my best to make this world a better place for all of us.  I’m learning all the time.   I promise to be more careful with my words in the future.  And I will do my best to be funnier as well. Much love to all

This is the best of all possible outcomes, in my opinion. I’d much rather live in a world where people confront their mistakes, apologize and pledge to do better; than a world where efforts to call people out on anti-gay and sexist speech only results in greater division. Gunn confirms that he meant the post as satirical but also that it failed to reach that goal. Take instead the example set by Scott Adams, after stating that to make their lives easier, men should treat women the way they would treat the mentally handicapped, of saying that anyone who didn’t “get” the true meaning of his post simply didn’t have the high levels of “rational thought” or “reading comprehension” of his supporters.

Gunn acknowledges his commitment to speaking out in support of the LGBTQ community and women, but also doesn’t use it as an excuse to say that folks who criticized him simply “didn’t know him like that.” For a nice video that sums up why “well if you knew me you’d know I didn’t mean it that way” isn’t a particularly strong excuse in situations like this, I recommend this video on Gwyneth Paltrow, Jay Z, and Kanye West.

The pace at which this story reached news and activism outlets like GLAAD is something that might not have happened even a few years ago, and without that, an explanation for the post in Gunn’s own words might never have been forthcoming because it might never have been requested as firmly. Had his statement not been made, in the worst case scenario where the sum total of his public response was to simply take the post down and stay silent, I would have remained troubled about his involvement in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. As I said in my article on his post initially, if Gunn was just the average internet person who’d written a post that was ironically distasteful without properly presenting its intentions nearly two years ago, it would not be worth commenting on, and due to the way the internet works it would really have only been encouraging. But in 2014, Gunn will be releasing the first new characters to the MCU since 2011, with the introduction of five new superheroes. He’s in a position of great power and responsibility in the biggest movie phenomenon in comics history, and that is a position where the intent of the statements in his post should not be allowed to remain ambiguous. I’m very happy to see the character shown in this apology. Of course, I can’t speak for everyone, and I’m sure some percentage of “everyone” will speak for themselves in the comments.

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  • Anonymous

    I’m happy that this was a real apology and not a dismissive “sorry you’re offended”. I hope that Gunn is serious about confronting the privilege he had to make that satirical post and that he truly learned from the criticism he faced.

    We all make mistakes and he’s owning this one. That’s admirable. But I will be watching his future releases with a very critical eye.

  • http://twitter.com/perrydotto Antonia

    Refreshing indeed! I’m glad he acknowledged his mistakes. As long as he really did learn from it and didn’t just say so to gain sympathy, I’m happy.

  • http://twitter.com/sarasakana Sara Sakana

    Um, no. A “gracious, sincere apology” would not consist of “I was just trying to be funny, guess I didn’t word it very well” (as if there even IS a good way to put “I’d like to see a man straighten this lesbian out by having sex with her” into words) followed by the “I can’t be a bigot because I have black/female/LGBT/etc. friends” defense.

    This is ass-covering. Plain and simple. If he didn’t actually believe that disgusting shit he said, then maybe he shouldn’t have said it.

  • Anonymous

    Now just put Phyla-Vell, Moondragon and Mantis in your movie!

  • QueenofQueer

    This scumbag doesn’t deserve shit. He can shove his apology up his own ass and maybe Tony Stark can “turn” him after that.

  • Anonymous

    Unless you’re The Onion and satire is what you’re known for, satire and sarcasm doesn’t come across very well on the Internet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chi.wright Chi Wright

    I took a lot of time thinking about how to properly word this comment, but I apologize in advance if it comes off in any way rude or disrespectful. When I saw the original article title, I braced myself for some nasty words from Gunn’s original post. What I saw, while still somewhat inappropriate, was not as offensive as I had been led to believe. It was definitely immature; I would expect a teenage or twenty-something blogger to post something like that. However, there are posts almost identical to this one everywhere that get no publicity. If there is anything to be found in abundance in nerd culture, it’s dirty-minded posts/comments. I’m assuming that this one got the publicity that it did because it was written by a major Hollywood director, but does that mean that he should be criticized for posting like a large percentage of the fandom does? And I don’t mean the ones that we are embarrassed about and pretend don’t exist. I’m talking about legitimate fan sources. “Un-PC Is Funny” is practically a mantra among a large portion of the nerd community, and not once did his article appear to be intentionally “slut-shaming” or being “homophobic” or anything else. He wasn’t being hateful; as his apology states, he was being funny.

    It’s also important to think about the timing. This was posted almost two years ago. Things have changed in two years. A lot. For starters, I’m willing to guess that he wasn’t onboard to direct a major Marvel Universe motion picture. Homosexuality is also much more at the forefront of today’s world, and people seem to get far more offended by anything other than complete and utter support for it far more than they did two years ago. There’s a reason that this didn’t get any publicity a year and a half ago, and to pull up something that old and hold the person accountable without any sort of historical context is to put an immediate spin on it. Years ago smoking was said to be healthy for you, but we don’t call down hate upon cigarette companies by pulling up fifty-year-old ads and saying, “Look what this company says!”

    I understand supporting equality; I support it myself. In no way am I saying that considering a teen mother “easy” is okay or that thinking that all homosexuals need to be “turned” is ok, but this article comes off as a clear work of humor. The point of the article, as can be deduced from the title, is to cater to horny nerds that want to think about superheroes getting it on. This wasn’t an article akin to “What Makes A Real Nerd”. It’s supposed to be funny, and I’d even go so far as to wager that some of the “offensive” things that he said, like calling Gambit a “fruit”, were said for laughs, not because he thinks that Gambit is actually a homosexual or that, if he does, there is anything wrong with that. Should he have been more careful with his words? Maybe, but at the time that this was written, this was probably commonplace and widely accepted. It hardly seems fair to bash him so much for posting something that, at the time, was completely acceptable just because it isn’t now.

    I’d also like to apologize for only “showing up” when there’s something I don’t agree with. I love The Mary Sue and all of the articles that I have read there by any of the writers have been outstanding, and I love the site. Hopefully I’ll atone for this post by sharing some far more pleasant and agreeable thoughts elsewhere.

  • Josie

    People say things they don’t believe all the time. Especially in the form of satire. MOST especially in the form of bad satire, which he admits that this was.

  • Anonymous

    “People who are familiar with me as evidenced by my Facebook page and other mediums know that I’m an outspoken proponent for the rights of the gay and lesbian community,”

    That’s actually a nice bit of sass for one of these apologies – “If you knew anything about me, you’d know this wasn’t serious”.
    But of course, nobody gets any publicity if something is settled quickly.

    “Solved problems aren’t news stories. For the press, bad news is GOOD news. You’ve got to give them a disaster today, and a triumph tomorrow”
    -The Right Hon. James Hacker, PM

  • Travis Fischer

    I didn’t know a thing about the guy and I knew he wasn’t serious.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Sanders/690069501 Greg Sanders

    As I already said, Gunn’s post was clearly meant to be parody of the ridiculous ranks that actual websites have performed yearly, even with stats like this, but no one stares them down. This has been nothing short of a witch hunt to attack a guy that did noting intentionally hateful or crass. It was bad parody, and nothing more. The fact that society is evolving to a point where no one is even allowed the slightest opportunity of the benefit of the doubt is not only absurd, but insulting. All of you were the wrong ones. It should be sites like this issuing out apologies for the mud slinging.

  • Anonymous

    The funny thing is that his Facebook post is full of comments from straight, white dudes (for the most part) whining about political correctness. Apparently the privilege around them is so thick, they can’t see anyone else’s point of view.

  • Joe Momma

    Your absolutely right. No one should ever bother to explain their poor choices and bad taste and should just live with the consequences of misunderstanding. The last thing we need is a culture where folks won’t be chastised for admitting they’ve screwed up, civil discourse may ensue!! The horror! No, these people should just know their place and accept the role they’ve been assigned by the mob. After all, we’re all better judges of the motivations of strangers than they, themselves, are.

  • http://twitter.com/EmberDione Kim Pittman

    Except he flat out says it wasn’t funny.

  • Anonymous

    Intent is not magical!!!!!!!

    The fact that he did not “intend” to offend anyone does not excuse the actual offense he did.

    I may not have intended to step on someone’s foot, but if I DID, I would stop, apologize for doing it, however unintentional, and move on.

    That is what happened here, but ignorant dudebros like you can’t get over that, because how dare a bunch of women, tell you that something you found funny is actually terrible and hurtful, and since you see yourself as an alright person, there is NO WAY you could like something terrible and hurtful, so all the people who were hurt by it MUST BE WRONG!!!

  • sylin

    So according to half the comments here, nobody is allowed to ever apologize and should just burn in hell fire for eternity even if they are truly sorry for what they did. Oh, and I keep seeing people make comments (here and in other places) that Gunn apparently deserves to get ‘turned’ (which basically translates to assaulted) over this. Really!? As if wishing physical harm on someone over internet comments makes it right! Yes, he was being crass, but that does NOT warrant wishing sexual assault on people!

  • sylin

    There are people who do believe articles at The Onion, though.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, these attitudes are abundant in nerd culture.

    Which is why Gunn was rightly criticized. His article did not challenge those attitudes, it perpetuated them, a fact he now realizes.

    Yes, when he wrote that he was not the director of GotG. That he was not well known, does not excuse the hurtful and hateful thing he said.

    And this actually did get play on feminist sites a year and a half ago, but it was quickly drowned out when the next terrible slut shaming homophobic crap percolated up to the top in our culture.

    As I’ve said repeatedly in the debacle, intent is not a protection from criticism. Just because he intended for it to be seen as funny, does not mean he succeeded and it doesn’t mean it’s exempt from criticism.

  • Anonymous

    So according to half the comments here, nobody is allowed to ever
    apologize and should just burn in hell fire for eternity even if they
    are truly sorry for what they did.

    Citation needed.

    People who are wishing assault on Gunn are reprehensible assholes.

    Happy now?

  • Mari Walker

    While I could understand people being offended I personally took the original post as satire, but that clearly wasn’t obvious enough to a lot of people. Very decent of Gunn to realise that, and seriously think about and apologise for any offence caused.
    Of course some people will insist he was just covering himself or making excuses, but I can’t help wondering why those people are so determined to see the bad in everything and ignore the decent.
    Everyone makes mistakes, misjudges jokes, or just says stupid things sometimes. Gunn is mature enough to apologise, so let’s all try to be mature enough to accept it graciously and move on. After all there are plenty of genuine and outspoken bigots out there, so why not deal with them instead of fighting with each other?

  • Anonymous

    Wishing rape as retaliation of reprehensible.

    We are supposed to be better than that.

  • sylin

    Um, wow, unwarranted anger much?

  • Anonymous

    Half or… 2?

  • sylin

    Yeah, this. Thank you, Mari.

  • Anonymous

    Except that’s not what he said.

    He said I thought I was being funny, but now believe it was a terrible thing to say, and I should never have written it, which is very different than your paraphrase.

    And he didn’t trot out the thing about equality as a ” I have (marginalized) friends” as a defense, but as a promise to do better in the future.

  • http://twitter.com/ChannelDiza Chanel Diaz

    Ever since I found out he was involved with Lollipop Chainsaw, I’m still not certain if he’s fully aware of what anti-sexism is.

    In this interview, he doesn’t know the difference between a “Male Power Fantasy” and a “Male Sex Fantasy.”

    http://www.destructoid.com/lollipop-chainsaw-s-james-gunn-talks-sexiness-and-sexism-231523.phtml

  • http://twitter.com/Rmjonesc13 R.M. Jones

    Not surprised a straight white dude is saying that.

    No, seriously, check your privilege. Just because you don’t have to deal constantly with people acting like you are a pretty looking warm body for their pleasure/calling you less than human because of who you love, doesn’t mean that you can make horrible jokes and go “BUT IT WAS SATIRE” when people took it the wrong way, and that magically make them in the wrong for being hurt.

    Because guess what? He messed up. He really shouldn’t have even done those jokes. How much more interesting would it have been if he had instead chosen to speak POSITIVELY about sex and men in the female gaze and women and lesbians? How much more of a impact then horribly worded “jokes” that are copy-pasted from what people have actually said?

    Even Colbert, the master of Satire, has to make sure his wording AND his tone AND his facial expressions are all over-the-top like crazy. And that isn’t just text. Because with that kind of material, you need to show respect by doing it right.

    Him thinking he could carelessly joke about it, even if the joke was satire, is wrong. He apologized and shown that he is a conscious, growing individual, so that’s cool. But don’t act like it was a leap of logic to assume otherwise when we are surrounded by this shit daily by people who mean it seriously.

    And you know what? As a public figure he should expect this stuff to come up. I know that if I ever become a famous writer (you know, in my daydreams and etc- long shots) That I would have to potentially deal with the things I said in the past that I totally am against now. Even on “who has a right to joke and talk about what”. And I give major props to him for doing the right thing and SAYING HE WAS WRONG TO EVEN JOKE LIKE THAT. Which you seem to have missed. Because by doing that he is being pretty awesome.

    Oh- and some of the most racist/sexist stuff in history and the modern day wasn’t/isn’t “intentionally hateful”. Still harmful as shit though.

  • Anonymous

    There will be some who will Never Forget (for a certain definition of “never”), some who will walk off, head held high that Something has Been Done About This (likely feeling they played a part), and the majority are just happy the whole thing is over with so we can get back to complaining about how much the film’s gonna suck.

    In one business week, the Internet has done a complete 360 on this guy, from hero to horror to hero again.
    I loveLoveLOVE watching these little crises tear through the Internet like a tornado in a trailer park. It’s amazing how many things are The Worst Thing Ever.

  • Anonymous

    DailyCurrant is the New Onion, in that it’s the site that not everyone knows is a gag site, and re-posts as real.

  • Taste_is_Sweet

    This was thoughtful and well-written, but in my opinion I believe that you’re missing the point.

    Yes, as you say (and as Gunn himself stated) he was trying to be funny. But what he failed to understand at the time is that one’s intentions don’t matter; the words do. It’s not up to the reader to get the joke, it’s up to the author to make the joke clear, and in this Mr. Gunn clearly failed.

    That’s what matters here, as Ms. Polo mentioned in the article. How many times have you been hurt by someone who ‘didn’t mean it’? How many times have you been told to ‘lighten up’ about something that bothered you? People like Mr. Gunn, who are privileged and fortunate enough to not face discrimination, tend not to understand that it’s actually not fair to force the person or group who was offended to relax and get the joke. For a simple (and yes, exaggerated analogy), if I hit you with my car because I was driving too fast, it would be my fault because I didn’t slow down, not your fault because you didn’t get out of the way.

    Mr. Gunn was able to understand that, and not only explained his intentions (which were gratifyingly good) but far more importantly, apologized for how his actions were *perceived*, which was what the issue was. His error was not his intentions, but in his choice of how to present them.

    Finally, I fear I also have to question your statement that things are so different now than they were two years ago that North American society is now no longer happy to accept slurs that would have been just fine in 2010. I’m afraid that assertion is simply ludicrous. Fifty years, or ten years can make a sea change in attitudes; two years can’t.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    It isn’t really a privilege to post something stupid on the Internet.

  • Anonymous

    You are the one who is taking one person’s comments on this site, which I have called out, and extrapolating a a severe bias onto the rest of us. And ignoring the many upvotes on comments supporting his apology.

    So my reasoning, is pretty clear, despite my alleged “anger”.

    What’s your excuse for your wild unsupported accusations and ad hominem attacks?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I’m going to start playing hang man whenever I see the word “privilege” on The Mary Sue. Add a limb, an eye, a torso, everytime. We’ll see how many stick figures you’re all able to kill in a year. I bet it’s a lot of them.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Agreed.

  • Anonymous

    It IS privilege to be a famous and respected white cis hetero man and think you can make jokes about women and queer people. He expected his joke to land because he’s never been slurred or attacked using the language he used. That’s the definition of privilege.

  • sylin

    I’m seeing more than one comment on that, though. Also, why are you even attacking ME? I’m pretty much agreeing with you. Jeez…

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Back up a little. I just found out yesterday that this is the guy that made Scooby Doo, and he still hasn’t apologized for that. Hero, my ass.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Yeah, but it wasn’t funny. I just assume he has a shit sense of humor.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    But the film’s gonna be awesome, from what little hints we know so far.

    Rocket and possibly Cosmo are in, the DnA outfits, ELO influence… I mean, I’m stoked for this thing. I’ve never been more sure of a director being capable of giving a story and a set of characters justice.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Third post about privilege. I really might a privilege hang-man site. That word is so all broad and boring, it could be applied to anything to make you sound right and your competition sound wrong.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I’m psyched that Tony Stark is real, even if he is apparently a rapist that listens to Internet commenters.

  • http://twitter.com/TiredFairy Mariah Huehner

    That’s not what he said at all. He said what he wrote was not funny and should not have been written. He then, because it’s relevant, explained what he intended but failed to accomplish. He also discusses his personal opinions which are also relevant, because they are backed up by years and years of being an LGBTQ advocate.

    There is a way to write really offensive stuff that is a criticism of the people who actually think that way. See The Onion, John Scalzi’s piece that he wrote from the fictional perspective of a rapist, and others. Gunn’s piece was attempting that, but failed, and he unequivocably acknowledged that and apologized.

    It’s fine if you still don’t feel it’s enough, but don’t mischaracterize what he said.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    I think Slither and Super are enough. He only did some writing for Scooby-Doo, and he also wrote most of the Dawn of the Dead remake.

    Ever seen Kevin Smith’s rant about when he was writing the script for Superman Reborn? It’s hilarious.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Agreed. Between Lollipop and Scooby Doo, I’m still assuming that this movie is going to be garbage, even if Slither was pretty good…

  • Anonymous

    More than one comments?

    Citation needed.

    Yes people on other sites are saying that, but not here. One person said that, and was called on it.

    And more than half the commenters here supprt the apology.

    I’m calling you out for your fallacious reasoning. Why’d you jump into a complicated conversation with erroneous assumptions, and expect to be let slide?

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    He didn’t direct Scooby-Doo!

    These are his films he’s done/is doing as director:

    Tromeo and Juliet (1996) (uncredited as director)
    Slither (2006)
    James Gunn’s PG Porn (2008—2009)
    Sparky and Mikaela (2008)
    Humanzee (2009)
    Super (2010)
    Movie 43 (2013)
    Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)

  • sylin

    I’ve seen a couple of comments scrolling up saying he doesn’t deserve to have the apology accepted, though. Why you’re not seeing it, I don’t know? But whatever, man, if you want to waste your time picking fights with someone who isn’t even disagreeing with you then that’s on you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    I’d take a drink every time someone steeped in privilege tried to undermine the concept, but I don’t think I’d last out the hour.

    What’s the point of your comment?

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    A lot of it is completely baseless whining at it’s best and sexism/racism at it’s worst.

    Not all of it, but a lot of it.

  • http://twitter.com/Rmjonesc13 R.M. Jones

    But it is a privilege to not have to deal with stuff because of certain things.

    I’m white. I have the privilege of not being considered lazy, or less intelligent, or be followed in stores by workers thinking I might shoplift, or etc. All things which I have seen happen to black friends who are twice as hardworking, educated, and honorable than I am.

    I’m also queer. I don’t have the privilege of seeing bi people in stories and media as heroes. I don’t have the privilege of seeing them as anything other than oversexed villains/morally gray people at most, except in extraordinarily rare circumstances.

    I am a women, which means I don’t have the privilege for people to assume I am competent about things I really am competent about. For people to assume when I say I don’t ever plan on getting married, that I mean it, and instead they insist I MUST be secretly desperate for a man and just burying my pain (and yes, this has happened multiple times, AKA 85% of the time I bring it up to people when they ask).

    It’s used because it has meaning and is relavant. Like “man” and “woman” and “LGBT” is often used in the conversations. Sorry you can’t seem to be arsed to read up on what the word means and do some soul searching.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    What is your point?

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Wake me when the reverse is regarded as equally reprehensible.

  • http://twitter.com/Rmjonesc13 R.M. Jones

    Adorable! So, trollin’ a hobby of yours?

    Pst- there is this thing called “empathy”. Maybe u should learn?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    No, it isn’t. This is:
    1. a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most: the privileges of the very rich.
    2. a special right, immunity, or exemption granted to persons in authority or office to free them from certain obligations or liabilities: the privilege of a senator to speak in Congress without danger of a libel suit.
    3. a grant to an individual, corporation, etc., of a special right or immunity, under certain conditions.
    4. the principle or condition of enjoying special rights or immunities.
    5. any of the rights common to all citizens under a modern constitutional government: We enjoy the privileges of a free people.

    And according to the definition of privilege, he does not have an immunity…therefore, he has no privilege. If he had the privilege, no one be able to chastise him. He may have thought he did (although it’s pretty unlikely that he thought, gee, I have privileges, I’m going to make a ridiculous asshat list and much more likely that he just has an asshat’s sense of humor).

    In any case, that’s not what you said. You said, “I hope that Gunn is serious about confronting the privilege he had to make that satirical post…” and that’s pretty much anyone with an Internet connection and the ability to post belligerently without censor. So, that’s you. That’s me. Confronting the privilege…maybe you mean he needs to do so some soul searching, look deep inside himself, find out why he was born with a bowl of dogshit where his sense of humor should be, but privilege is not the correct word.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals
  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I have, but can you refresh me on what that has in common with James Gunn? Not, uh, being hostile here…just forgetful.

    …and writing any of Scooby-Doo…I mean, if he wrote the Scrappy Doo scenes? Jesus.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    He’s credited ad the writer of Scooby Doo.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    The word is being incorrectly here. He made a stupid post on the Internet. Anyone with an Internet connection can do that. Maybe he came from a privileged background, but he didn’t act it out in a privileged way, he did what anyone can do, and now he’s apologizing (so that they don’t throw him off of the movie).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    Please read the link I linked under you upthread. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the common (read: not ancient dictionary) definition of privilege and you’re embarrassing yourself. Everyone here is speaking one language and you’re speaking Ye Olde English. Before you continue to make a fool of yourself, please educate yourself, for everyone’s sake.

  • TKS

    I believe @kaimcn:disqus is talking about privilege in the way of social justice theorists. As in privilege is linked to being part of the group in power. There is male privilege, cisgendered privilege, heterosexual privilege, etc.

    In these ways he is privileged.

  • Anonymous

    So a couple of comments is more than half?

    And one person on this site saying something reprehensible is enough to drag you out in defense if this guy, but I’m the one wasting my time?

  • http://www.thenerdybird.com/ Jill Pantozzi

    Obviously it was not clear if so many people did not see it as that type of parody.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    Please read what I linked! You’re actually the one reading it incorrectly. You’re a little out of vogue with the common vernacular of oppression and it’s getting hard to watch.

  • Travis Fischer

    True, but it also doesn’t justify the scores of angry “Of course he meant it! Otherwise he wouldn’t write it!” responses seen in the last story and probably this one as well.

    They are speaking directly about his intent in that case.

  • TKS

    Obviously, this apology is satirical. The thing that separates satire from sincerity is the way you read it. If you read this in “Comic Book Guy’s” voice than it’s obvious that it isn’t serious.

    /sarcasm

    In all honesty I am glad that he apologized. Would I have preferred he did it before being called out for it? Yes. But I am glad that he took this step. Messages can be misconstrued, and that is the fault of the person giving the message, not the person receiving the message.

  • Anonymous

    The privileged people she is referring to, are to the legions of fanbois who still think screaming “satire” and “intent” means we shouldn’t be offended about it, and completely missed the fact that Gunn says, yes regardless of intent, it’s perfectly acceptable to be upset about it.

    That’s pretty much the EXACT definition of privilege.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    …best comment.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Oh, I understand that (you can keep your link), but I’m exercising my privilege (my definition) to read into your statements whatever I please (your privilege) as we have all exercised on Gunn (yay, everyone’s definition!) And it gives you a nifty opportunity to tell it like it is, which is fun. Everyone likes being on the top of the hill looking down every once in a while.

  • sylin

    I’m saying that he and other people who make comments like that don’t deserve to be told that they deserve to get assaulted. I don’t even particularly like James Gunn, but I don’t believe flinging horrible insults like ‘I hope Tony Stark turns him’ is right and I think people should be called out on it.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I know, but it’s a very smug word, so I’d much rather mess about than agree wholeheartedly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    Then you can continue to be ignorant. That is your right as a white man.

    “White people’s number one freedom in the United States of America is the freedom to be totally ignorant about those who are other than white. We don’t have to learn about those who are other than white. And our number two freedom is the freedom to deny that we’re ignorant.” – Jane Elliot

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I stated it pretty clearly.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    But I’m not. I understand, I just don’t like smug people very much.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    You’ve shown no understanding to my (and others’) points at all. You have shown you understand your own bubble of reality. It sadly doesn’t fit in with the rest though.

  • Anonymous

    Why do people continue to discuss what people are doing on other sites, here?

    Link to “scores” of those comments speaking to his intent, and I’ll believe you have a point.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    And I agree with HIM.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    The common vernacular is snobby.

  • Anonymous

    Then this shoe doesn’t fit you, stop trying to wear it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    You don’t get to decide definitions and how we use them. As much as I think you would like to, that’s not how communication works. You cannot possibly use a different definition of the same word and hope to get your point across while ignoring the common definition.

  • Anonymous

    I CALLED THAT COMMENT OUT WHY ARE STILL ARGUING ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE ON THIS SITE SHOULD BE DOING WHEN ITS ALREADY BEEN DONE

    WHY ARE YOU TREATING ONE COMMENT AS IF ITS TRULY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE CONVERSATION HERE

    WHY ARE YOU BLOWING THINGS OUT OF PROPORTION?

    Oh, cuz your a troll.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Agreeing that regardless of intention, he made a mistake and people have a right to be angry is the shoe not fitting?

  • Anonymous

    All the lulz

  • http://twitter.com/ChannelDiza Chanel Diaz

    That’s funny, I didn’t really care for Slither for similar reasoning to Lollipop Chainsaw. But, I’m surprised he was involved with all those things.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I was pissing about with the dictionary definition of the word, it’s hardly made up.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    You’re not looking for understanding, you’re looking for agreement, and you shall not have it.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Well, I liked it for Nathan Fillion.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I know and I agree with you…I just don’t like her attitude very much.

  • Anonymous

    Making fun of the people holding the power is not reprehensible, it’s the only way power is challenged, dumbass.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    But you know damn well that THAT isn’t the definition we’re pulling to discuss here, and it doesn’t DISPROVE the common anti-oppression definition.

    http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

    One more time. It’s written by an actual White Straight Man, so you can take his word for it if you won’t take mine.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    Um, no, I’m looking for acknowledgement to the accuracy of an objective topic.

    I’m not going to have a conversation about the weather if you only believe “cloud” refers to a nonpermanent data storage centre.

  • Anonymous

    You are exercising your privilege to be a contrary asshole.

    I’m sure that will get you far in this world. (Sadly, it probably will)

  • sylin

    So you’re using caps lock, arguing with me senselessly over something miniscule, and ignoring what my actual point was…and you’re calling *me* a troll here..? >_>

  • Anonymous

    “The fact that he did not ‘intend’ to offend anyone does not excuse the actual offense he did.”

    It also means he would be honest if he said “I didn’t intend to offend you, but I’m sorry I did”, or even the more hand-wavey “I’m sorry you were offended”.

    “how dare a bunch of women, tell you that something you found funny is actually terrible and hurtful”

    Yeah, basically.

    If you are offended by something, for whatever reason, then you were offended by it, your reasons were perfectly valid for you, and it’s a shame you didn’t like it.

    But you don’t get to TELL me I should be offended too. You can try to make your case and see if I will agree, but you don’t get to bring down the hammer and say That’s Not Funny.

    Elsewhere on this very site is a post about defending fans of Twilight, that contains the question, and I quote…

    “Can we seriously stop giving people flack for liking things we don’t like?”
    Irony. Try some today.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, I’m only responding to your thickheadedness.

    You came onto a website to decry behavior that wasn’t even happening here and have since engaged me in nothing but a tone argument, because you have no legitimate point.

  • Anonymous

    On whether or not you are being a privileged prat.

    Which, based on your attitude in the above thread, I was wrong about.

    Analysing privilege is a very important social justice tool, and your unwillingness to engage in any thoughtful conversations about it really tells me all I need to know.

  • sylin

    I’m not even trying to argue with you, Aeryl. I don’t even understand what your specific problem with me is? What, are you offended that I would dare try to defend ‘scum’ like James Gunn from being told he deserves sexual assault? Like, seriously. I’m confused.

  • Anonymous

    When did anyone say others MUST be offended.

    The major point of the previous conversation was in trying to get people to understand they have no right to tell me not to be offended.

  • Anonymous

    What was said above is no less terrible than what Gunn said.

  • Anonymous

    There we go…back to normal.

  • Anonymous

    I actually sort of like the Scooby-Doo movie. Should I feel bad?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Nah, it’s not like it’s Twilight.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think Gunn is guaranteed to make a great success. I do think he’s guaranteed to make something interesting, even if its an interesting failure.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    If you quantify vengeance.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I’m making decisions and passing judgement without dwelling on the socio-political background of the people involved. Right or wrong isn’t dependent on your skin color. What Gunn did was wrong and he apologized…you can accept it or not. You can decide for yourself whether his background matters in that decision-making. Myself, I think he probably just has a shitty sense of humor, and though he realized a joke was bad, it probably doesn’t mean he won’t make this same mistake again.

  • Anonymous

    So according to half the comments here, nobody is allowed to ever
    apologize and should just burn in hell fire for eternity even if they
    are truly sorry for what they did.

    This is your first statement. It is hyperbolic and untrue as the majority of comments and upvotes have been in support of the apology. That’s the first thing I called you on.

    Oh, and I keep seeing people make
    comments (here and in other places) that Gunn apparently deserves to get
    ‘turned’ (which basically translates to assaulted) over this. Really!?
    As if wishing physical harm on someone over internet comments makes it
    right!

    You are correct it is terrible, it was said one time on this site, and heavily disapproved of and called out. That makes it a non issue for this site, but you continue to act like this was not done.

    Your continued obtuseness is frustrating. Your initial response to my attempt to show you that the issues you had were being addressed or unfounded was met with a tone argument(unwarranted anger much?). When you learned that assault comment was addressed you moved the goalposts to people rejecting the apology. When you learned that people were accepting the apology, you have since shifted back to the assault comment.

    Your behavior is the classic example of a troll.

    No, maybe you deserve the benefit of the doubt, but your refusal to back down from your erroneous comments makes me doubtful.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I’m disagreeing that you can slap a label on someone, pat them on the forehead, and then send them off to be enlightened.

  • sylin

    Wow, uh. I can’t believe you just made a huge wall of text, analyzing and picking apart all my responses. What the hell?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I don’t agree at all that Gunn’s statement or apology were an exercise in privilege. He has a distasteful sense of humor and he (this is totally an assumption I’m making) HAD to apologize to save face. Maybe he meant it. Maybe he feels bad. But if this is his regular sense of humor (and that’s the sense I get from his website) then it won’t end and it has nothing to do with his socio-political status or station in society. Some people think farts are funny.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ammie-Hisaka/100001798512605 Ammie Hisaka

    I proudly retract everything I said in regards to Mr. Gunn in the previous story. This is refreshing and helps restore a little faith in humanity.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I’ll take your word for it…I’m going to go have human interaction now, so there’s no time to argue further. Everything you’re saying makes perfectly reasonable sense and I agree completely, I’m just not crazy about the smugness. Having not lived Gunn’s life, I’d rather not dictate whether he should look deep inside himself…he should probably just not post “funny” shit anymore, since, uh-oh, it was just revealed to the world that his sense of humor is broken.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    You asked for an explanation and they gave it to you… maybe y’all should disengage if there’s that much misunderstanding happening.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=39603889 Lauren Seals

    If how something is being said is more of an important point than the content of what is being said, then maybe it is time to go have other interaction. I know you won’t, but looking up tone arguments on your own time would save everyone a lot of hassle.

    But I appreciate the forthrightness with which you’ve addressed the core issues. So, thanks.

  • sylin

    I kind of see as less an explanation and more like a meanspirited taking down of me and then she continues to accuse me of trolling when all I did was give an honest opinion.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Hassle is a pretty good definition of life, so I wouldn’t want to do that.

  • http://profiles.google.com/bubbashelby Eric Stettmeier

    ” …I just don’t like smug people very much.” Pot, meet Kettle.

  • Matthew

    I don’t know if people are being willfully ignorant about this or just going on with this “it wasn’t a joke!!” talking point in the hopes that if they keep saying it over and over and over and over and over, that it will stick. Newsflash: It isn’t sticking.

    The Cracked Magazine sight does what Gunn did on a regular basis. It’s “talking shit” about comics. Taken to an extreme in order to mock people who do talk shit like that. Mostly teenage fanboys and the MAIN FUCKING DEMOGRAPHIC OF COMICDOM. Get it now? There’s this show that also does that on a regular basis. It’s called South Park. Perhaps you’ve heard of it? Gunn is Cartman. Just because Gunn only puts in a few self depreciating counterbalance instead of in every single comment on the 50 superheroes doesn’t make this any less true. Cartman is still funny when Kyle is not there to say “shut up fat ass”. Cracked also does this sort of thing without putting in the counterbalance where the “shit talker” becomes the target. But then Gunn was under no obligation to do that to begin with. Where is the law that says anyone’s brand of comedy has to fall inside the boundaries of explicitly drawn lines? Oh, right. There is no such law.

    Gunn did not owe anyone or any group an apology. If anything he should have doubled down and told all the hysterical “suffragettes” who live in the echo chamber of blogger and tumblr, who preach to the choir so often that they’re actually starting to believe their own BS, to fuck off. People like the Mary Sue and various others not only misrepresented Gunn’s post, they out and out lied about it. As they often have to do in order to get people to actually listen to them. There was no “rape the lesbians and turns them all with Tonys magic cock!!!” anywhere to be found in his post and people who actually read it, fucking know it. What he ACTUALLY POSTED was “if they had sex”. If. They. Had. Sex.

    So I guess in angry fangirl world, just positing the suggestion “hey, what if a lesbian and a straight guy had sex?” that means you’re promoting angry rapey rape lesbian turning rape. This reminds me of Molly McIsaacs article about harassment and cosplay when she compared having some douche take a picture of her ass without her explicit permission to being raped. I wasn’t buying her bullshit then and I’m not buying your bullshit now.

    But guess what? Neither is the rest of the comics community. Your practiced outrage and faux indignation is falling on fewer and fewer ears that are fucking tired of listening to bullshit hyperbole. Gunn’s apology is no victory. On the contrary, if anything the incident just went to show how truly alone angry fangirls actually are. Creators, male and FEMALE, bloggers, male and FEMALE, all of which could be said to be very feminist sensitive, came out of the woodwork to support Gunn and barring that, marginalizing the “outrage” by saying “shhh…it’s okay, pick your battles, calm down”. Even Gail Simone implied that people were overreacting. That’s right all you angry, livid fan girls who want Gunn’s genitals on a plate, even Polo is jumping ship. Fangirls are praising Gunn’s apology in much the same way Chris Matthews swooned over Mitt Romney’s concession speech after spending months talking shit about him. There’s a clear reason for this. She knows that she overreacted and now, in order to put her assholery behind her as quickly as possible, is praising Gunn and moving past all this to avoid any more focus on her own embarrassment. Rachel Edidin is doing the same damn thing over at her site. They LOVE Gunn now. LOVE HIM!

    This was a devastating defeat for those, like Pantozzi and Polo, who continue to misrepresent and out and out lie about shit and character assassinate in order to make their point. And the best part about all of this? More and more women are turning against you. Just look at the amount of women who rallied to Gunn, Harris and Manning and defended them against people like the angry acolytes of the Mary Sue.

    I mean, haven’t you noticed that there has been more sexism and sexist comments lately in comic world rather than less? That’s because there is a growing backlash against jackasses like you who continue on with this particularly repugnant brand of vile attacks and shouting down all who might disagree that something is sexist or not. You and others like you aren’t interested in having any sort of dialogue. On the contrary, you want to shut down any and all dialogue. Just scream and scream and scream “white privilege, misogyny, rape!” over and over even when there is none to be found and you think you’re going to get sympathy or attention. Ultimately though, you only end up looking like assholes crying wolf. Worse…lying, marginalized assholes crying wolf.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Haha, I know, I was thinking the same thing but hoped no one would notice.

  • Furious Spoon

    Well Gunn did say in that list if he was going to have sex with guy it would be Tony Stark, so maybe he can turn him!

  • Anonymous

    Where was it ever asserted that you could? The OP said they were glad Gunn confronted his privilege and reached this point. What is so fucking controversial about that.

  • http://twitter.com/thegaf The Gaf

    Good. Cuz I really want to see this movie.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    The insinuation that this is all a result of privilege is very high and mighty. That’s the label I’m talking about. If Gunn reached a higher stage of enlightenment and evolved into a Pokemon that is aware of its privilege, then power to him, but I think it’s far more likely that Gunn has a very bad sense of humor. THIS IS NOT THE ONLY ARTICLE ON HIS WEBSITE THAT IS OBNOXIOUS, CRUDE, AND “FUNNY”. He might genuinely feel bad having offended his audience, much MUCH more likely that he wouldn’t want to offend his FRIENDS, though, don’tcha think? And he probably doesn’t want to get kicked off the GotG movie. It doesn’t matter what privileges you have or don’t have, anyone can have a bad sense of humor. You can shrug this whole thing off as a lesson learned in the sense that he has had some profound Grinch-style understanding and his heart grew three sizes, but that’s a childrens’ story. His website is still up. The other articles are still up. THIS article ticked people off, THIS article got taken down, and THIS article he apologized for.

  • TheBoost

    A straight dude making gay jokes and expecting people to laugh has EVERYTHING to do with his position in society. And if it ‘wont end’ it’s because a system of other people with the same privilege support and defend it.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Or he has a bad sense of humor. I’m not saying that there isn’t a separate societal problem, I’m saying that some people are just dicks. If it’s a societal problem and he recognizes that and apologizes, then everything is better if you believe him. But if it’s just that he has a bad sense of humor and got called on it, then he hasn’t changed. That’s what I meant about “it” not ending…his sense of humor. Not intolerance.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I admit that I am very…hopeful, that he was honest. I’d rather not be cynical.

  • Travis Fischer

    http://www.themarysue.com/james-gunnsuperhero-sex-post/

    “And what great evidence do you have that it is satire? He removed it and tried to hide it, even he didn’t bother defending it.” – Zomyx – (4 Upvotes)

    “This isn’t surprising, this is the god damned norm from the grown man-children who run the majourity of Marvel and DC Comics.” – Jamie Jeans (70 upvotes)

    “Then why wasn’t he making fun of them? Why was he just saying exactly what they say?” – Laura Truxillo (3 upvotes)

    “Even if it’s satire (which I still seriously doubt), it needs to be treated seriously.” – Lauren Seals (21 upvotes)

    “I had someone try to defend him as an ‘absurdist’ writer. That, to me, is just trying to shield him behind a label and it is disgusting and terrifying that people want him to get away with being a downright horrible human being.” Krystal (18 upvotes)

    “Yeah, I really believe that he’s making fun of that sort of thinking by… writing a whole bunch of examples of it in a blog post.
    If it’s really satire, why did he delete the post? Why try to hide the evidence?” – Dr Nic (3 upvotes)

    “I thought those comments couldn’t get worse, but wow…do we have a Bigot Bingo, or what? Christ! Yes, spread this around.” – Thae86 (8 upvotes)

    “Why do so many of the creative types I respect turn out to be sexist dick-butts?” – tbok1992 (3 upvotes)

    “Seriously….what the hell is up with this guy. It saddens me that people still think and say such things in this day and age.” – Sara (2 upvotes)

    “he thinks you, as bisexual woman, ought to be forced into sex with a man to turn you ‘all the way straight’. Just remember that.” – Ammie Hisaka (6 upvotes)

    “If he’s not a homophobe or a misogynist then why is he telling homophobic and misogynistic jokes?” – Raquel Phillips (18 upvotes)

  • Travis Fischer

    Wouldn’t it be nice if THAT were what people focused on?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I looked up tone arguments because I’ll be damned if I wasn’t curious…

    And it reminds me a little of grammar Nazis destabilizing an argument by pointing out flaws in your sentences rather than their content, so I understand. Yes. No. No, but yes.

    It does matter. How you say something does matter…the more sarcastic I am, the less anyone cares, right? When I am approached with hostility on the Internet, I tend to follow through with much less respect for my opponent than I would have had otherwise.

    …I really did take off, though. Mostly. My wife came home. *shrug* She’s more important than James Gunn and his possibly bullshit but very well written apology.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Oh, it’s got me worried. He’s made a very silly bunch of pictures, nothing at all that I can think of as respectable films. If this is who he is, this is where he’s coming from, and that’s what he’s produced thus far…well, I’m expecting this movie to be about the same calibre as Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    The point is the writer doesn’t get complete control over the film, the director does. The director makes any changes to the script that they want, and at the end of the day, the director is in charge.

    Kevin Smith was not allowed to write the superman movie he wanted at all, but he hung onto it for the sake of writing the Superman movie.

    That’s why I say you should look to the films he’s directed, not just written, as the writing for a movie is not the scriptwriter’s doing alone.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    If by interesting failure you mean cult classic, I’m fine with that.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Good point.

  • Anonymous

    And it was one of your responses, not all.

    Goodness, I hate it when people engage in hyperbole because without it they wouldn’t have a place to argue from, at all.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Oh, I have plenty of empathy for people.

    The difference is that I don’t tell people to shut up based on their ethnicity or gender, or imply that their views are invalid because you are closed-minded enough to where you don’t even accept the idea that they might understand.

    I approach people as people, not a walking stereotype based on their physical appearance.

  • Anonymous

    The point of tone arguments is that they tend to only be focused on women, when they talk about feminism.

    “If only feminists weren’t shrill, I’d think they’d have a point”

    Men are rarely policed for how they talk.

    Case in point, this story.

    These two articles have drawn more comments than any other articles posted by Marysue. And most have those comments have been because of dudebro fanboys coming into a woman dominated space, to tell us we were wrong about feelings and how we viewed it.

  • Anonymous

    None of those speaks to his intent, only to the results, or doubting the satire intent based in his actions. Most of them are responses to people making the satire defense.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    “Men are rarely policed by how they talk”

    Did you not watch the election?

    There’s girls that commented on this site that were on Gunn’s side too, ya know. Don’t be so quick to marginalize everyone into gender lines.

  • Life Lessons

    :) Learning is good.

  • sylin

    …Yeah, you’re definitely just being confrontational just for the sake of being hostile. Don’t you have bigger fish to fry in other comments or something? :/

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    That article is sickening.

    I will never understand how some people can feel like they can just make broad statements about entire demographics, especially something as morally reprehensible as “Your life is easier due to your skin color and gender, so you have no reason to complain.”

    Why not just take everyone on a person to person basis, rather than wage war on anyone born with features they can’t change? I mean… jesus. The world would be a lot better if people approached everyone with an open mind and open arms rather than being aggressive towards anyone of another race or sex and just assuming what their entire life has been like due to their race and sex.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    There’s a ton of people hoping for that.

    If anyone would, it’s Gunn, but the simple fact is that their backstories are so complicated they probably have no chance of having enough room for them in the movie.

    I mean hell, just explaining Rocket’s backstory is going to be one hell of a feat, if they actually do his backstory right instead of Bendis’s new origin for him for the 2013 run.

    (Bendis is most likely going to kill Moondragon off-panel too, from what people have gathered from the previews.)

  • LGBTQISupporter

    Defending James Gunn makes the likes of you just as repugnant and deserving of comments like “you should be turned”. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

  • Anonymous

    Oh, yay, one of those “I don’t see race” people.

    Refusing to engage with someone as a woman, or a person of color, or a LGBT, means you are denying them their identity.

    I understand, in a culture where you are treated as the default member of humanity, it’s difficult to understand that a marginalized individual has to deal with the fact of the their marginalization, EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY.

    I can’t afford to engage with the world as if I was just a person, because the world marginalizes me based on my sex. When you make the magnanimous decision to take people on a person to person basis, you are erasing their humanity be refusing to acknowledge how their experiences will differ from yours.

  • Anonymous

    You mean women who live in a sexist culture will act in sexist ways?!!

    Breaking news water is wet.

    Men were called on for saying reprehensible things. They were NOT called on because of HOW they said them, or accused of being hysterical or overreacting. They were called on for the content of their statements, not how they came across.

    In addition, the fact that men can no longer say hateful sexist things with impunity is a good thing.

    People coming into conversations about feminist topics, trying to override and invalidate people speaking about their own experiences, and concern trolling them, is not.

  • Anonymous

    I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on him confronting his privilege, because of the content of his apology.

    People who only apologize because they got called out, tend to come across different. The “I’m sorry you were offended” vs the more enlightened, “I’m sorry I was offensive.”

    You’re not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I think calling the people giving it, snobby and high and mighty, a little odd.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    “Refusing to engage with someone as a woman, or a person of color, or a LGBT, means you are denying them their identity.”

    No. BY doing that you are denying them their own identity and seeing them by someone who is inherently someone with a certain set of values, beliefs, hardships, priviledges, etc. This is an awful practice.

    Seeing them as a person rather than a stereotype includes everything about them, not seeing them as a race, gender or sexuality first and anything else a distant second.

    “I understand, in a culture where you are treated as the default member of humanity, it’s difficult to understand that a marginalized individual has to deal with the fact of the their marginalization, EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY.”

    Don’t you get it? You’re assuming a lot about me right now. You have no idea who I am, and more importantly, you seem to be subscribing to a form of paranoia where the world is out to get you because of your race, gender or sexuality.

    That’s not to say that this thinking isn’t without some merit. Assuming the worst is a valid safety tool in person to person encounters, but you also have to acknowledge the flipside, that there are good people out there too, and that nobody is inherently anything.

    If you feel marginalized then it’s good that you’re drawing attention to it, but if you marginalize others in turn don’t expect many open ears to turn your way.

    “When you make the magnanimous decision to take people on a person to person basis, you are erasing their humanity be refusing to acknowledge how their experiences will differ from yours.”

    That’s the opposite of true. All it takes is an open mind and a willingness to listen, along with understanding that everyone is different, regardless of race, gender or sexuality.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    The irony of this comment is amazing.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Men are called on for overreacting all the time, and are also called on for how they say things. “How” Obama said things during the first debate caused people to say he lost it, after all.

  • TKS

    Thank goodness we have you to keep an eye out for faux indignation, repugnant brand[s] of vile attacks, and shouting down all who might disagree.

  • Anonymous

    Um, no.

    That’s like wishing prison rape on criminals.

    Reprehensible.

  • Anonymous

    Acknowledging a person as a woman, or a person of color, or an LGBT, or a man, has nothing to do with operating on stereotypes.

    It has everything to with acknowledging that your personal experiences are not the “default” and that people of different identities will have different experiences and different ways of interacting with the world that are equally as valid.

  • Anonymous

    As all your specific examples are recent, that isn’t really invalidating by claim that men are RARELY called on it, and when they are, it is in terms typically reserved for describing feminine behavior, i.e. “overreacting” or not aggressive in the case of Obama.

    This is because we live in a male supremacist culture. Does this culture also hurt men? Yes, but men are also protected by a certain degree of privilege and for those who can pass, going along to get along, instead of challenging that culture is a lot easier.

    People who are forced to navigate that culture, do not have that luxury.

    Gunn’s initial problem was that he used the damage that culture inflicts to make the marginalized the butt of the joke. That was a mistake, and he has apologized, and for that I applaud him, if it’s sincere.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Exactly, however, it is wrong to assume that nobody understands anyone of another sex or race, it is wrong to assume that everyone falling under certain categories are different from you in inherent ways, and it is wrong to marginalize others in turn.

    Race and gender are part of who people are because it effects them, some more than others, but it is still only part of who someone is, sometimes a very small part, and every man, woman and child deserves to be judged for who they are, not marginalized for being a certain sex or race.

  • http://twitter.com/sara_smile Sara

    I found his apology sincere and a lot more meaningful then many other celebs that try to back peddle on what they said. He owned up to it and didn’t criticize anyone who did not find his humor as funny as he himself did or others might have. Good on him and Im glad he did this. Im willing to give GotG a shot again.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Citing examples of anything other than current is blaming the current generation for the sins of their forefathers. When justifications exist solely on what has occurred in the past, we cannot move forward.

    As for your notion of male priviledge, again, this is a blanketing statement and idea that marginalizes men rather than looking at each one on a case by case basis. I don’t agree with everything on this website, but http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill/?utm_source=dlvr.it&%20utm_medium=twitter might be a little enlightening on how, basically, life is hard for everyone. Harder for some people, of course, but there’s pretty much nothing you can be born with physically that will automatically make life easier for you than anyone else. Your surroundings, culture, parents, wealth, and your own mind are all independent of sex and skin color, and these factor in to a much greater degree in today’s world.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Well, then I object (obviously). I don’t think anyone on here has been particularly shrill, I’m just annoyed by the disdain and sort of…I think a lot of people tend to come online with a you’re either with me or against me attitude, and if you’re not with me, then you’re a jerk. I don’t ever tend to agree completely with any extreme opinions, so I usually end up arguing with people that I basically agree with…but I’m not a dudebro. If you’d like to scapegoat me as such, you’d have to erase all of my anti-Gunn comments and put me in a costume. I wouldn’t have been coming to this site for the last two years if I didn’t consider myself a feminist. I’m not sure how you could expect to find a partner and possibly have kids (possibly female ones!) without being one.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I wasn’t, I was ONLY responding to the comment about he will hopefully go and explore his privilege that was made above…far, far above. I don’t even remember the details, honestly. I was responding to that and it all got a bit out of hand.

    I would LIKE to believe him. As such, I remain hopeful…or at least I shall endeavour to attempt to present myself as hopeful sometime in the future, possibly. …though, I did get rid of my copy of Slither today. Unrelated circumstances. I wanted to save a little money on ParaNorman.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Actually, let me go ahead and say that I agree with very little on that website, it tends to be rather extremist at times, but… That article is a good one, and that man’s life experience is worth reading.

  • http://www.facebook.com/MerricatBlackmoon Phoenix Blackmoon

    I won’t be reading anymore of Adam’s comments, because after the fifth or so (I lost track) it became tiresome to be so inundated with the EXACT privilege that he is enjoying arguing about. By your picture you appear to be of the same white cis gendered male category as Gunn, and your behavior marks you as one of those folks ignorant of their own power. If you aren’t ready for that knowledge, and the fact that you and other individuals like you must be responsible with the power conferred on them by society, then so be it. But with great power comes great responsibility. Thus spake Uncle Ben.

  • Anonymous

    “I mean, haven’t you noticed that there has been more sexism and sexist comments lately in comic world rather than less?”

    This is flat out untrue. You’re simply noticing it more because people are speaking up.

    If you think comics was LESS sexist in the past, you’re straight up lyin’. No one likes a liar, son.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    That’s awfully prejudice of you.

  • Anonymous

    You must be filled with self loathing.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Witty, but you’re late to the party. Someone already said played that tune.

  • Anonymous

    Apologies are more effective than you’d think, huh?

  • Anonymous

    What on earth makes you think it was “completely acceptable” two years ago?

  • Anonymous

    he’s not ignorant of his power, he’s indulging it. Narcissism and privilege are bosom companions

  • Anonymous

    perhaps you can go through your list and winnow it down. i see a couple here that really DO state he must have meant it. The rest– you’re reading somethign that isn’t quite there.

    You might think the anger is misdirected, but the issues still exist.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    I think he’s talking about in the community itself, not in published comics…

    I’m not sure either way, but I think there has been an upkick in recent years for a variety of reasons.

  • Anonymous

    And remember, sisters, understand this brothers– WOMEN TOOK THE ELECTION.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think a large percentage of women said he lost the debate because of *how* he said things.
    By that point, women had been tone policed by the entire GOP and even republican women were aware of that little nasty tactic.
    I sure did hear a lot of men make that claim though.

  • Anonymous

    You sound incredibly white and male, just saying.

  • Anonymous

    Billionth post whining about the fact that the sky is blue. Make your hangman site it will give you something to do with your time.

  • Anonymous

    Are you Adam Carpenter’s alt?

  • Anonymous

    it’s a troll.

  • Anonymous

    You need to learn to read better.

  • http://twitter.com/mildeabandon Eudora Quilt

    “This isn’t surprising, this is the god damned norm from the grown
    man-children who run the majourity of Marvel and DC Comics.” – Jamie
    Jeans (70 upvotes)”

    This is the same exact point you yourself were making in your original comment. The jokes reflect the thinking of the majority of the male fanbase, who are entirely unironical about them. Of course their jokes are also meant as jokes – at the expense of lesbians, women and gay men in general. Usually there is no other layer to it. Why should I have assumed that there was in this case?

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Lol, we have different perspectives if you think this site tends to be extremist. It’s all relative, I guess. :)

  • Carmen Sandiego

    I think, Beakie, that once society has advanced to a point where we have eradicated the fundamental privileges to being white, then we can stop considering it as a major component of how someone is treated by society. We’re still at a point where appointed members of public office use racial slurs openly. We’ve a long way yet to go. For the first time ever this year in the US, there was a line for the women’s bathroom in Congress. When that “first” is far in the past, then we can stop considering privilege so much.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    And that is a racist and sexist thing to say.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    But they did! That’s how it was said that he lost the debate in the first place. This was a major story a few months back.

    Those senators were reprehensible thank goodness every single one of them lost.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    No no no, the site I linked below.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    When you get right down to it, the article THIS article is a response to, is essentially “whining”. “Whining” is, I understand, a word most often used by the PRIVILEGED.

  • Rowena

    I agree. I left the feminist movement 15+ years ago because I grew so tired of the hyperbolic, pearl clutching hysteria as evidenced by this situation. It shows how hopelessly irrelevant and mean spirited the feminist movement is at heart. They will attempt to ruin their own supporters to get page hits.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    There’s three things wrong with this line of thinking.

    One, it generalizes everyone and assumes that anyone of a certain race or gender is in a certain situation all across america. America is huge and diverse, and where someone might be struggling to find work and the help they need in Montana someone else might have found work easily on the gulf coast.

    Two, the officials using racial slurs in public office is a problem with individuals and a problem with the republican party, a social organization, rather than a race or sex. I could go on all day about what the republican party is doing wrong, actually, I could probably go on for about a week straight talking about what they are doing wrong right now without repeating myself, but

    Three, it’s perfectly natural to see the senate so far behind. The senate is made up of the best speakers of each party with years of experience and face value to them. Since the doors have opened to women in politics more and more only in the last few decades (Barring a few oddities like the female governor of Texas in 1914) it will take some time to see more and more people actually walk through those doors, and THEN succeed after they have walked through those doors in the first place, and THEN succeed to where they get up to the senate. It’ll be a slow process, but the balance of sex will even out in the senate eventually, so long as we as a society continue to fight against traditional gender roles.

    One last thing, I linked this article below on another comment, and let me say again that I don’t agree with the vast majority of this website I’m linking here, this man has a life experience I feel a lot of people should read.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill/?utm_source=dlvr.it&%20utm_medium=twitter

  • Anonymous

    it sure seems like it should be, doesn’t it? But no, it isn’t.
    I can tell that you are a white male because of the way you talk about sex and race and life differences.

    You showed up here all full of anger and scorn because a lot of people reacted angrily against something you didn’t think was so bad. You didn’t bother to take into account the way their lives have sculpted their reactions, you just told them they were wrong and bad and stupid.

    It IS possible to understand the lives of marginalized people. But it’s not easy. The hardest part of it is understanding that your life is not the measure of anyone else’s– and what that actually means. This is, in my experience, going to take a while for you to comprehend, but I think you are a very intelligent and very motivated person and that you sincerely want to be the person who is not racist or sexist.

    There is a famous essay called “Unpacking the Invisible knapsack” and it includes a list of things you have in your life that no one else has. http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

    I hope you read it and make a real effort to understand what it means. Do not come back here and say anything like “Well I don’t agree with it.” because you might as well not agree with the truck that’s about to hit you while you stand in the middle of the street.

  • Anonymous

    yes dear, but NOT BY WOMEN.

    And no, not every one of the anti-woman senators lost. Every republican senator that won– is equally anti-woman. They just don’t say it as clearly.

    Whereabouts do you live? I’m curious.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    What, so you can marginalize my thoughts on the matter based on location? No, please focus on my words and ideas rather than attacking the person behind them.

    And yes, women were included in the majority polled by every major news source saying that Romney won the first debate.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Yes, because every single member of a certain race or gender is in exactly the same situation as whatever your stereotypical view of them is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003037095323 Jerilyn Nighy

    Bug. A cameo at least. Or a separate Mantlo-esque Micronauts. It’s a shame Marvel let go of it, and GIJ ARAH and Transformers.

  • Anonymous

    I like how people can magically determine someone’s sex, gender, identity, etc. over the web. Seeing isn’t always believing.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Hoo boy.

    You have no idea who I am but due to my opinions I obviously have to belong to a certain race and sex. This is a frightening accusation and I honestly can’t understand how you can’t see the irony of this.

    I could finally reveal my own sex and gender, I could tell you right now that I’m a woman of Hawaiian descent (that does not live in Hawaii) but it doesn’t matter. You are too busy trying to shame me into silence based on what you perceive must be my race and sex rather than address my ideas and words.

    I should just walk away right now, but I’m going to do my best to try to see if you understand.

    The essay in question has good intentions, but I believe it is flawed. I believe strongly in individualism, and I feel that in a free and equal society, a lot of these concepts should not govern an individual’s actions. As I said before, the sins of the past cannot govern the people of today, or else we cannot move forward, we can only trade slights against one group of people for slights against others. The point of equality is to move past race, sex, and everything else that makes us look different, and address us all by what is inside, what we say and do, what actually matters rather than our physical appearances.

    Is it a problem, if a student is picked on because they are black and that black people are not attributed to the birth of western society like Europe is? Of course! That’s a horrible thing for someone to go through. That is racism. However, just as easily a child might think nothing of such things, and recognize that though their heritage may be different, it has no effect on the endless possibilities that one can make of their lives in America. This essay largely deals in shame, forcing the casual reader to understand how lucky they have it… which is a valuable tool at times, but to subscribe to the concept eternally rather than examining it, learning from it and moving on means there can be no progression, no movement forward. I understand how lucky I have things, I understand some areas where I am not as lucky as others, but… to dwell on these things, again, isn’t moving forward. It isn’t trying to do your best anyways and beat the odds, all it serves is to complain about how life is unfair.

    Which, it is. That’s not to say that nothing can be done about it, but sitting around and complaining about not having the same chances as you feel every single white male does or shaming anyone higher on the privilege ladder into silence doesn’t solve anything. Action does, and individuals do.

    Learn that anyone can be anything, rather than taking on life with a defeatist “us vs them” attitude, and though life is hard, and certainly life is unfair at times, there is nothing an iron will can’t break through.

  • Anonymous

    yeah. I figured as much. I am really truly deeply sorry that reality is not as you (and I too) wish it to be.

  • Anonymous

    This man’s experience is very individual.
    I will not comment on it yet. I plan to reread it another time first.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Because I disagree with you doesn’t mean that I’m not versed in feminism. I have been trying not to accuse you of anything in turn, but now you accuse me of being young and inexperienced in this matter, and once again attempt to attack the person behind the argument rather than address it.

    I argue no. From my experience, those new to feminism are quick to discover this brand of it through tumblr and social media outlets that are praising the priviledges system as the latest fad, ever since the occupy wall street movement started to make it popular.

    By generalizing people you are marginalizing them in turn. Don’t do that. That makes you no better than the ideas that you are trying to combat. THAT is social issues 101. By attacking the person rather than attacking the argument you are committing a logical fallacy, that is logic 101. By not understanding the mind and treating each person as a separate person, but instead treating them as whatever predisposed position you have against their race, class or sex you are failing Psycology 101.

    Also, I don’t hate feminism at all – I’m not sure where that comes from. I’m not young, either. If anything, young people subscribe to certain doctrines blindly without forming their own ideas on the subject through experience and through exposing themselves to many sources, not just their own insular communities.

    If anything, I argue that you should likely study, sit, and think about everything that you know on your own, without the input of your usual circle. Reflect on it. You might not believe it now, but I think you’ll eventually see things a little differently.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    It is, however.

    I’ve seen people close to me lose their homes and everything they own to unavoidable natural disasters, I’ve seen friends kicked out of their apartments to live in the streets because they couldn’t pay rent, I’ve seen people I know and care for attempt suicide, get the help they need, and get better.

    The next time you check your privileges, remember that you can take advantage of the good parts. That you live in a time where we have shelters, some of the best medical attention out there, and hopefully, remember that nothing’s impossible to overcome.

    I know you might think it sounds sappy, but it’s actually true.

  • Anonymous

    I really don’t think that you have actually read anything I’ve said. All you’ve done is read with an eye to rejecting.

    There is a difference between blindly ascribing to a doctrine and coming to it informed by one’s own existence. I did not learn feminism on tumblr, I learned it over my entire lifetime.

    I am over a half century old. I’ve lived and worked in ten cities and small towns in the USA, and seven countries in the rest of the world. I have raised two children to adulthood. I was around for the second wave of feminism and I’ve personally experienced the results of societies assumptives.

    No matter how magnificently individual I am, our entire society sees me as a woman– a carrier of titties– first. No matter what kind of brilliant art making brain my black friend has, everyone on the sidewalk sees his black skin first.

    here are some riddles for you;
    1) a man and a woman who live together have a recurring problem; they get stopped by the cops with regularity. A cracked windshield, a bad brake light, starting off from a stop sign too quickly. it happens sometimes that the man gets told to step out of the car to be frisked. The cops often ask the woman if she is all right.

    Can you guess what might trigger this concern?

    Here’s another;
    My girlfriend is making good money– far better than me. She likes to dress well. I often dress like a slob. When we go into Macy’s it sometimes happens that one of us seems to alert the security guards, who have even gone so far as to ask us if we are actually shopping.

    Knowing that my girlfriend is Hispanic and I am white, can you guess which one of us is the trigger?

    Here’s another; I have heard, more than a few times, the humorous comment that I should sleep with the person, so as to be cured of the gay.

    How many of those jokers have been women?

  • http://twitter.com/JayKingOfGay Jay, King of Gay

    Absolutely, and that’s the message that’s so hard to get through to people. It is a poor comedian who blames the audience for not laughing. Freedom of Speech doesn’t come with a sympathetic audience.

  • Anonymous

    no– not sappy.

    Ignorant as all f*ck, though. Which seems to be carefully cultivated on your part. I’m getting the impression that there’s a whole bunch of subtext here — your personal solutions to your own dilemmas.

  • http://twitter.com/JayKingOfGay Jay, King of Gay

    For real, it’s like he’s saying “No, no, stop using this current definition, stop applying it to these situations” and it’s like dude, you really, really seem to want to make this about a word, and a concept you simply don’t understand, or refuse to understand, because life is a lot simpler if you don’t have to deal with the concept of privilege, but yes, it exists.

  • http://twitter.com/JayKingOfGay Jay, King of Gay

    dude, you don’t seem to realize that a good 90% of your posts, especially the ones sarcastically attacking “privilege” come across as smug. Especially the ones where you use the word “smug”. Just read this sentence of yours “I’d rather not dictate whether he should look deep inside himself…” that doesn’t ring as “smug” to you?

  • http://twitter.com/JayKingOfGay Jay, King of Gay

    Mansplaining, right?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    No, since the poster I was commenting on WAS dictating. I think that he sounds like a rather shallow soul.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    Nope~!

  • Anonymous

    It’s not magic. it’s because we have heard these things from white guys (for the most part) under verifiable circumstances. After you see a white man’s lips moving a hundred times, you can pretty much make that assumption.

  • http://twitter.com/BeakieHelmet BeakieHelmet

    “I really don’t think that you have actually read anything I’ve said. All you’ve done is read with an eye to rejecting.”

    Same to you.

    The rest are loaded questions.

    I think we’re done here.

  • Anonymous

    Shrug.

  • Anonymous

    I hope there is a way to continue progressive talks without disolving into attacks on word-play. “Privilege” is a word I like to throw around as well, and while correctly used, I can see how it is also alienating.

  • Anonymous

    Reality is unfortunately loaded in ways we don’t like.

  • Anonymous

    Are you suggesting that most people in the feminist movement are overreacting?

  • Anonymous

    Great example of projection :)

  • Anonymous

    This word does come up a lot, also you seem to to take it personally. Please help me understand that.

  • Anonymous

    Fasinating that you are not influenced by our abusive culture. How does this work, now?

  • blissey

    Do us all a favor and shut your fat mouth.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Oh, I know, but it sort of makes things safer, doesn’t it? It allows for an academic distance and understanding without actually solving the problem. In this SPECIFIC case, regardless of privilege, James Gunn acknowledged that he was attempting to be humorous. Time has passed and he alleges that he no longer thinks that he was very funny. You can say that he did not or could not see his privilege…and if you take him at his word, now he does. I think, regardless, a bad sense of humor is a bad sense of humor. His website remains, loads of crude humor in it, but the offending article removed. Confronted with the abstract of his joke, he realized (and seems truly shocked) that he had said such abhorrent things, but all those other articles, similarly not funny, remain.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I would rather not immediately become disagreeable but I really didn’t take the word personally…I just didn’t appreciate that my arguments were being pish-poshed away by buzzword aficionados…it was all I could do not to slip directly into name-calling. The whole thing makes me tired. I was attempting to explain another possibility, outside of privilege (maybe he just thinks stupid jerkass shit is funny), but agree completely that his name should be scorched from history, his lands salted, but seriously, his entire website is crude and unfunny, so something should be done about that…and the horde descended on me for disagreeing with the fundamental principles. I realize that my Homer Simpson, “Just because I don’t care, doesn’t mean I don’t understand,” approach isn’t helping me save face…but slinking away with half-explanations and false apologies would be disloyal to myself.

  • Anonymous

    IMO… if he really doesn’t realise who he sounds, he’s not capable of realizing. Which means he either is doing this on purpose, in which case there’s nothing you can do about him, or else there’s nothing you can do for him.

  • Anonymous

    It seems that Beakie is one of the marginalised–at least they hint that they are not actually male or white. Covering up with a beaked helmet is surely one way to deal with that reality. At least, as long as one doesn’t step out onto the street.

  • http://twitter.com/JasonB617 Jason Biggs

    Sorry but that is the biggest PR/Lawyer written BS i’ve seen since Angus T Jones said two and a half men was “filth”. he got caught his job is in jeopardy so he is “sorry” and his words don’t represent him sorry thats total BS he wrote them and totally believes them only thing he is sorry about is getting all this heat on him now.

  • Anonymous

    There hasn’t been an uptick. There’s just been more reporting. There is, in fact, a difference.

  • http://twitter.com/Tonks07 Mandy

    I had never heard of this guy until reading these articles and I couldn’t tell he was trying to joke at all. By the time I read the turning Batwoman straight bit I was disgusted. But I wasn’t really surprised as his “jokes” are gross beliefs that are still unfortunately shared by a part of the comic fandom (& in Real Life sadly) so I just assumed he shared these disgusting beliefs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/laura.truxillo Laura Truxillo

    Best of all possible outcomes sounds about right. It was a very sincere apology that took responsibility and acknowledged where he went wrong. That’s a rare and beautiful sort of thing.

  • http://somnomania.tumblr.com Kate

    I’m really glad he apologized and said what he said in it. I don’t know how anyone could’ve actually read his original post as satire, but whatever. I was ready to comment on TMS’s other post about HIS post, mostly to say “wow this guy has a girlfriend?” and now I don’t have to.

  • Anonymous

    I appreciate you taking the time to respond (took me a while to get back because I did not have the internets til today) This has definitely helped me see your side. I wish I had all the answers too, how nice would that be? (Plus sexy money=awesome) I remember one time, having a conversation on the internet devolve into fistycuffs over another feminist topic. I was trying to take a certain stance, but because I couldn’t completely explain it, since I didn’t have the whole story, I got to repeating myself, over and over. It became super frustrating, because why couldn’t they see my point?! So, communication devolved into Taking Sides-I had to take a break from that whole thing before it got too far out of hand.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I appreciate your response and thank you for your understanding. With the whole Simone firing thing, I think James Gunn is going to be completely forgotten until his movie comes a little closer to release, so I’m probably off the meat hook, too.

  • Anonymous

    Your hateful BS obliterates your credibility.