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Nudity On Game Of Thrones? One Actress Has Had Enough.


A Game of Thrones actress has just revealed one of her fellow cast members is tired of getting naked on the hit HBO series. 

If you watch Game of Thrones, you know it’s a common occurrance to have women walking around completely naked, and far less so, men. Previously, actress Natalia Tena had commented on this. “I think it’s really unfair, every actor, any actress has had her t-ts out. Every single actress I know,” she said. “Blokes it’s like, let’s see some @#$!. Do you know what I mean? Let’s make it more even.”

But Tena said she has no issues doing a nude scene if it’s called for and speaking with the TelegraphOona Chaplin, who plays Robb Stark’s wife Talisa on the series, agreed.

“If it’s done in a beautiful way, in a way that honours the female form, then I’m always happy to see it,” she told them. “The objectification lies in the eye of the beholder, just like beauty. I’m really comfortable getting my kit off, so, if they want to, I’m like, ‘yeah, bring it, I’m naked, no problem.’”

But not all of the women on Game of Thrones feel that way. Tena said, “One of the girls in the show who got her kit off the most in the first couple of seasons now doesn’t at all because she said, ‘I want to be known for my acting not for my breasts.’”

Tena refused to say which actress she was referring to but many have assumed it’s Emilia Clarke, who had a long stretch of being clothed before the most recent episode, and who’s faced issues getting nude on stage in Breakfast at Tiffany’s. But it could just as easily be any number of women on the series.

This conversation speaks to the larger trend in Hollywood, something we were discussing earlier as it pertains to Star Trek Into Darkness. What do you think about the nudity on Game of Thrones?

(via Think Progress)

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  • http://twitter.com/JohnCFarrier John Farrier

    The nudity doesn’t contribute to the quality of the show. It’s unnecessary.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I think it was Isme Bianco.

  • Anonymous

    *show spoilers*

    It’s exceedingly unbalanced. You have Melisandre give a soliloquy relating nudity to the existence of a deity, and it works, the “naked truth” angle is obvious and you get the impression that this is a woman who is confident and can be nude in a room with three men and be completely unphased. But then she’s riding Gendry who is still in his pants. then out come the leeches and part of the plot of this scene is that one leech is going to draw blood directly from his manhood but no we cannot see it.

    Similarly when Theon is going to be castrated you have two completely naked women onscreen for several minutes and a lengthy talk about Theon’s penis but we don’t see it (we did for a second in season one).

    These aren’t just decisions to not add male nudity to a scene these are scenes where the male nudity seems to be explicitly called for and it is hidden.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t mind the nudity… when it’s done for a good reason, and isn’t just thrown in there because tits. Which is almost none of the time. Ironically, Emilia Clarke’s nude scene at the end of season 1 is one of the few I felt qualifies.

    But the insane amounts of fan-service doesn’t make the show better, it makes it worse. It makes it seem juvenile and almost desperate, which is a shame, as the show stands well on its own merits. Not to mention that every time it happens, you you get taken out of the show. You don’t attribute it to what’s happening outside the show, you know the reason you’re seeing breasts is because it’s a show on HBO. Even as a straight male, I’d rather just watch the damn show without having to be interrupted by softcore porn every episode. If I wanted that, I have plenty of other places to find it. I came to watch Game of Thrones.

    That being said, when there’s a legitimate reason for there being a nude scene, I do think it’s a bit silly to censor it with the edge of the frame, or foreground objects, be it male or female nudity. Which seems to be a practice Game of Thrones would much rather do with their men then their women.

  • http://www.commonplacebook.com electrasteph

    This. Show some balance about it, at least.

  • cloudywolf

    The old adage ‘less is more’ is extremely pertinent here.

  • cloudywolf

    “you know the reason you’re seeing breasts is because it’s a show on HBO”.

    THIS.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I think it’s because they are men, and peen is for porn. Boobs are for everywhere. You can even sing about them at the Oscars.

  • http://www.facebook.com/angela.drummondmathews Angela Drummond-Mathews

    Exactly. You hit the nail on the head, ahem, so to speak.

  • Anonymous

    I was going to come here and post, but Aeryl basically said everything I was going to say.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dbelle77 Dixie-Ann Belle

    I actually have never seen the show, but I am almost done reading Book 1. All the talk about nudity in the show makes me wonder. I have read some scenes where nudity is written in, but the constant commentary I have read suggests to me that it happens far more than the book. Is this true? Can someone who has read the book and is familiar with the show confirm that? I’m curious.

  • http://twitter.com/_Danicia_ Donna Prior

    I absolutely agree. What works? The fire scene. The bath scenes (Dany & Brienne). Theon with his first dialogues with the Ros character. And NAKED HODOR PEEN. Right out of the books and was awesome.

    Partial bits (like with Jaime & Cercei when Bran saw them? Great. The rest of it? Meh

  • http://www.facebook.com/mark.matson6 Mark Matson

    Daenerys naked with the dragons out of the fire was extremely powerful, particularly as it, in my mind at least, alluded to the birth of Venus.

    The bath scene was far less important, though it did demonstrate how she would not be intimidated. There was definitely character development, but it wasn’t really necessary. It also, a simple back shot would have sufficed.

    So many scenes, though, are clearly just for the nudity itself and totally unimportant. Personally, I’m quite happy the show has scaled back on the nudity as much as it has.

  • Amanda Blackburn

    I like to call it “Sexposition”. The writers are, like, “You know what would make this 5-minute-long monologue about the history and intrigue surrounding house so-and-so better? Boobies.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=208925 Jessica Sadoway

    There is definitely more gratuitous nudity in the show than in the books.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Baker/1530948805 Kevin Baker

    Yes, there is. Basically any time they could fit in nudity (especially female nudity) without it being utterly ridiculous, they did.

  • http://baduterusrising.blogspot.com/ platypism

    Absolutely. In the show, especially the first season, there were many scenes that took place in brothels that simply don’t occur in the book, or that perhaps do but not that linger on the prostitutes the way the show does. Some scenes play similarly to the book (such as Daenerys at the end of book 1), and those strike me as “appropriate” nudity (for whatever that means), but others are just thrown in to fill some weird boob quota.

  • http://twitter.com/candyarmor Ashten Williamson

    The books have some issues with female characters being described through a lustful male gaze. The show reflects the same. The nudity is disproportionately female, even when it makes sense for the men to be nude. I don’t remember the nudity in the books well enough to tell you for sure which one has more. I think it is important to remember that women are disempowered socially in this fantasy world, but I have noticed the show try to strive for gender parity in terms of complexity and qualities beyond T&A.

  • John Wao

    I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy the female nudity on the show but I haven’t really seen a scene where the nudity was absolutely essential. In other words they could remove all the nudity and still tell the story they’re trying to tell.

  • http://twitter.com/LibrarianMarian Marian Librarian

    George R.R. Martin himself wrote in a lot of nudity. In fact, I remember a scene in the book where Catlin was supposed to be naked and she was not in the show. Then again, there are scenes in Littlefinger’s brothel that are completely written in for titillation. Honestly, I think both the source material and the show are at fault. Martin may want us to think that he writes in the nudity just to make the show authentic, but then it’s written in a way where Danerys seems very aware of telling the audience how her breasts are doing at any moment, which is not something that I, as a woman, often find myself doing.
    Yes, objectification is often in the eye of the beholder, but sometimes it’s pretty easy to spot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sphyre Jenna M. Pitman

    As a HUGE fan of the books I have to say that I stopped watching the show and part of the reason is the nudity. What got me is that they REMOVED scenes from the books where nudity or sex progressed the plot then added their own that did NOTHING. And it was ridiculously sexist in so many places, beyond what most shows do.

  • Laszlo

    Yeah, and it’s not just the amount of nudity, but also the characters involved. With the women, the important characters can get long and revealing nude scenes, with the men however, they try to cut that shit down if he’s important. Like the Robb/Talisa, Melisandre/Gendry and Jon/Ygritte scenes are good examples, the men strip down later or get dressed earlier, and we see them less directly. But we do get more of Lancel, that squire or Hodor. The feeling I get is that they want to preserve the “dignity” of important men, but they don’t feel the same about women.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Or the scene with Ned and Cat. Maester Luwin finds them immediately after they finished having sex, but they scrubbed that for the show.

  • Anonymous

    I’m for it, but think it ought to be equal opportunity nudity. My wife was happy with recent views of Robb Stark, and I’m sure there are other women and men who would be similarly pleased if some of the other characters got equal exposure.

    Didn’t we get scenes with Renly, Loras, and Drago in season one?

  • http://www.youtube.com/TheRemingu Helene Fosse

    What I like about the nudity in Game of Thrones is that at least we see proper bodies. Most of the women here are of course exceptionally beautiful, but they don’t have pr0n-bodies, and you get to see how actual silicon-free breasts looks like… They problem (except for the obvious nude males vs females) is, as Tena said, body hair. It seems that breaking the taboo of being nude is far easier than the one that females over the age of 15 naturally has hair on their bodies.

  • Brianna

    I’m almost finished reading the first book, and yes, there’s nudity in it – but not nearly the same amount as on the show. The book also discusses both sexes’ sexual parts, however, not just the size of Danny’s breasts (which are supposed to be small considering she’s like 12 in the book…). But anyway, I just read a chapter where Tyrion’s penis is mentioned quite a few times – though we’ll probably never see that on the show. So I would like to argue that the book is a bit more just when describing both sexes.

    The show could definitely tone it down a bit – though the season finale from season one with Danny was more than necessary, but that’s because her nudity gave her purity and power. In all honesty though, the nudity doesn’t really bother me the majority of the time. I just wish it was more evened out for both sexes.

    Oh, and I’d love to see some naked Jon Snow.

  • Anonymous

    It does seem like most of you have bothered to read the books. Even when they don’t blatantly state she was walking around with her tits out the picture painted makes it obvious time and time again. Almost anytime you see nudity on the show it is there in the books, and nine times out of ten where the scene is made up out of whole cloth and has nudity it needs to be there or the scene would be completely out of context and look awkward in relation to the scenes that are there.

    As to why you don’t see men walking around with their cocks out or even showing ass is it is one, it’s never in the books and two, you are dealing with a literary world where that also wouldn’t fit in. Whether the actresses like getting naked or not is honestly irrelevant, they chose to do a show set in a fantasy world that objectifies women’s bodies and two this is an HBO drama where T&A happens only happens slightly less often than someone says “Fuck” just because they can. No actress going into this show save for Sophie and Maisey should have been naive enough to think they wouldn’t regularly be objectified.

  • dg101

    The nudity never really bothers me. I’ve gotten a bit desensitized to it at this point. Though, I can see why people would find it a bit hypocritical. I mean, look at Spartacus. They had both male and female nudity and people still tuned in. People just kind of need to get over the nudity thing, for both genders. If the character would logically be naked in a scene, let them be naked. Dany walks out of a fire? Sure. Her clothing burned off. Makes sense. But, Jon Snow is having sex with Ygritte? Probably would make sense for him to be naked as well.

  • Anonymous

    As a viewer, I don’t mind it and hope for an equal opportunity situation, where the show can be sexy for everyone. On the other hand, the show has to listen to its actors (or should I say actresses in this case) and try not to cross their personal line. Right now, I’m kind of afraid the actress who spoke out might be the one who played Ros, which would raise questions as to why her character had that fate.

  • LizbethAnne

    Exactly this. In this week’s episode, I expected her to get off Gendry and his pants to not be on–and yet he seemed to barely have them undone (untied? I’m not sure how pants work in Westeros). I think she would have bad trouble getting the leech on/off the area.
    So often there will be a sex or “sexy” scene with male and female participants, and the man will be fully clothed, or only missing a shirt. It’s ridiculous, and kind of unrealistic.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Exactly. Considering she’s the one that was the MOST naked, I’d bet money on it.

    I was already enraged about that, this doesn’t help.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    So men don’t get naked to have sex? I must be sleeping with the wrong men? Because if a woman is naked b/c she just got done boning some dude, it makes sense they’d be nude too.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I call it Westerosi grooming.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Renly’s chest, Loras’ chest, and Drogos chest. We didn’t even get Momoa’s bum, and he’s shown that in other things.

  • Peevee

    “No actress going into this show save for Sophie and Maisey should have been naive enough to think they wouldn’t regularly be objectified”

    Wow, so…that makes it okay and we should all just shut up about it?

  • Laszlo

    If you’re such a book expert, please tell me which chapters have the Littlefinger explaining shit in the whorehouse scenes, I don’t remember. However, I do remember at least one scene where a guy was walking with his cock out, Dontos’ introduction, and that didn’t make the series.
    And this stuff about how that’s the setting works is for its in-universe sexism, where it’s completely true, but not for this. Partially because lots of the complaints are about the way it’s shot, which absolutely has nothing to do with the setting, like how in nude scenes where there’s both a man and a woman, they barely show the man, if he gets naked at all. And partially because when the nudity is important and from the books, it’s not about how this world objectifies women, quite the contrary, it’s supposed to be empowering and shit. Though there is that one scene from later in the books. And wouldn’t a patriarchal setting like this be actually more prudish about female nudity and sexuality than of male?

  • http://www.facebook.com/nathan.cook.58 Nathan Cook

    Well I know one thing HBO has added a lot of nudity that wasn’t in the books and even as a guy I could care less as long as they stick to the amazing story

  • Lapin

    I think it’s telling that we got one long, explicit girl-on-girl sex scene (in season 1; in LF’s brothel), but we never see Renly and Loras entirely naked together. The gay male sex is mostly implied, but the pointless lesbian sex is presented in full for titillation.

    It’s very glaringly hard to ignore: NONE of the important male characters have ever shown full frontal nudity. Almost all of the women on the show have.

    In my personal opinion, I don’t think GRRM’s book series is sexist (he seems to get that women do enjoy fantasy, so his writing is aimed at men and women), but the show definitely does have sexist undertones. I always get the feeling when watching that the show writers don’t think the show appeals to women in the first place, so they add in all this gratuitous fanservice aimed at men.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    Nudity, inherently, doesn’t bother me one bit.

    It’s the male-gazey and overwhelming bias toward female nudity (that almost always has no bearing on the plot OR character OR even some scenes) that makes me sigh and roll my eyes. If you’re going to go this route, at least make it even. There are some fanservicey bits and pieces with the men, but that’s the key word: bits and pieces. And it’s never presented in the same manner.

    Now, some would argue that the world itself is very sexist, with its constantly objectifying women, so it’s realistic to portray it as such.

    To that I would say: I get enough of this in the real world. To have yet another show pulling this, when they’ve already taken multiple liberties with the plot and erasing specific characters and redirecting focus, there’s little stopping them from being clever and more inclusive (it’s not just for straight folks!) about male fanservice as well.

    But, that’d make entitled nerds angry. And we don’t want THAT, do we?

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    “…should have been naive enough to think they wouldn’t regularly be objectified.”

    If I had a penny for every time someone said this crap in a bag, which translates to a measly, “So you got treated like shit! Well, GEE, what’d you THINK would happen?” Would you say the same to a black actor dealing with blatant racism and discrimination? Or a gay actor struggling with stereotyping and microaggressions on and off the set?

    Women know exactly what they’re in for. That doesn’t mean it’s okay. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t change. And that definitely doesn’t mean we’ll shut up about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    Yeah, that Littlefinger scene.

    My boyfriend and I just gaped in confusion the entire time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    “Juvenile”

    “Desperate”

    “Softcore porn”

    Thank you. I was trying to figure out the words to abridge my thoughts on the matter and you found them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    Agreed. That fire scene was pretty damn cool, even if she did look a little too clean to be walking out of a pile of ash.

    (I was hoping for a cool charred haircut, too…)

  • http://twitter.com/Proi_RS Robin S

    Male fans would be made uncomfortable by male objectification and nudity, but female viewers are more used to just grinning and bearing it. So they cater to the audience that is going to react the most strongly. Sad, but true.

  • Kris Talbot

    Well, Theon did once or twice, but it’s still nowhere near to the level of the young women on the show.

  • Laszlo

    “To that I would say: I get enough of this in the real world.”
    That’s not even the problem, the problem is that it’s just a flawed argument. In-universe sexism is not the same as sexism in the way they portray it. Lots of the problematic scenes are not even objectifying in-universe, they get naked on their own volition, which is something that men also do, often in the very same scenes, yet they show a lot less of that. And that’s got nothing to do with how the setting works.

  • Lapin

    Yeah, you can see Theon fully nude (I had forgotten about that), but I only remember seeing his junk for a rather brief moment in a scene with Ros. Whereas there are a lot of scenes where women undress slowly or with a flourish and the camera just lingers on their bodies for long periods of time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    You’re right, especially on the points regarding the adaption of certain scenes. I was just targeting a common argument FOR all the female nudity, which always seems to include the words ‘setting’ and ‘realism’.

  • Anonymous

    There was a scene with Drogo and Dany where Momoa’s bum was clearly shown for a bit. I’m not sure if I remember anything more than chest from Renly or Loras. There certainly hasn’t been any parity between the men and women though.

  • Anonymous

    They’ll get used to it too.

  • Anonymous

    Sure, but actresses don’t want it to get around that they aren’t willing to strip, because that could preclude them from a lot of future work. What I’m saying is, even if they’re uncomfortable with nudity, SAYING they’re uncomfortable with nudity will probably have greater adverse effects on their long term career than it would on a man’s.

  • http://twitter.com/Proi_RS Robin S

    We can hope. That’s why it’s important to have conversations like the ones that come up on The Mary Sue.

  • Anonymous

    The best part in Second Sons was when Melissandre stripped but Gendry stayed mostly clothed. WTF?

  • Anonymous

    The nudity on the show has been problematic from the start. The two main reasons for me are 1) male and female nudity aren’t treated equally or anywhere close to fairly (it may be true that female nudity is more tolerated in that world, but probably not at that relative frequency as compared to the men), and 2) there has been so much gratuitous nudity that does nothing to advance the story or develop character that all nudity in the show is being painted with the “gratuitous” brush now, diminishing the impact of whatever legitimate nudity/sexuality there is.

    In the books there is plenty of sexuality and nudity. As the story is about power, sexuality is one of the areas in which this power is explored (along with violence, heritage, wealth, intelligence, etc). Whenever there is nudity or sexuality in the books, it serves a purpose: it is advancing the plot (Dany’s “rebirth” from Drogo’s funeral pyre or Cersei using her sexuality as a tool to manipulate) or developing character (Dany’s growth into a woman and her burgeoning sexuality or Tyrion’s need for intimacy and companionship). When a woman is seen through the male gaze, it is for a reason. When we see a woman through her own eyes it gives insight into her psychology. And the medium of the book allows for more in depth analysis which we just aren’t getting from the show.

    It saddens me to think that there are actors on the show who believe that their nude scenes are serving no purpose other than titillation because that is far from what the books were able to accomplish. The producers and writers need to be more intelligent about what purpose nudity is serving on the show, because this ham-fisted use of it is one of the things keeping this show from being as great as it can be. The violence serves a purpose (Jaime losing a hand was a seminal moment for him), sexuality needs to be treated with the same respect.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    I love how it reveals, for all that men boast about physical and emotional superiority, how vulnerable and insecure they really are when they can’t even take a fraction of what women deal with on the daily.

  • Anonymous

    What about man-ass? Do we see some of that?

  • LizbethAnne

    “As to why you don’t see men walking around with their cocks out or even showing ass is it is one, it’s never in the books”

    Really? I don’t believe the books mention that in every single intimate scene, the men are fully clothed or shirtless. Are men unable to have sex without hiding their junk in Westeros?

    Not to mention, of course, that this post is criticizing the show, not the books. There’s plenty of things they’ve changed or cut out of the books (Willas Tyrell was the one annoying me most recently), and they’ve added additional scenes/characters (Littlefinger’s sexposition)–it’s not a 100% faithful adaptation. Even if the source material has nudity in some situations, that doesn’t mean HBO is obligated to transport that into the show. Heck–in the season 1 finale, when Dany goes into the fire, her clothes are burned away, but not her hair as happened in the books. So, what, HBO can make changes to keep their cast attractive, but not to show an equal amount of male and female nudity?

  • Travis Fischer

    I’ve no objections to the nudity, and in Game of Throne’s case it’s not even that sexualized anyway, but I do find it annoying that there is a pretty clear difference between what they will show of a female character and what they will show of a male.

  • Anonymous

    Did I ever say it was okay? On the other hand knowing what is coming then complaining about is more than just sour grapes, it is a lot like a woman taking a job as a stripper and then complaining that men don’t bother looking at her eyes when she is working.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sarah-Nuckolls/623068949 Sarah Nuckolls

    I can’t remember where I read this but I think it is relevant, and I’m paraphrasing of course. Male authors frequently write way more about how a woman’s breasts are moving or feeling because that’s what they are most used to thinking about when staring at a women so it’s their assumption that women are thinking about them too… it’s like I’m writing about how a woman feels, what makes it a woman, tits, obviously… it’d be like if every time you wrote something from a man’s perspective you’d talk about how ‘things are hanging’ like that’s constantly on a guy’s mind… It’s just laziness not really thinking things through plus not being called on these things or dismissing them as unreasonable gender complaints there are many MANY fantastic books where suddenly it’s a male author writing the female character’s internal monologue and for some reason she’s thinking about her boobs, just, I’m at a loss

  • Anonymous

    “…which translates to a measly, “So you got treated like shit! Well, GEE, what’d you THINK would happen…”

    That is exactly what this situation boils down to. They took jobs in a show where they knew they would be walking around naked and now they are unhappy about it. I feel no more sorry for these actresses than I do women who keep going back to men who beat on them thinking they can change them or intentionally jump from one bad relationship to another so they can keep blaming the other person for their own mistakes.

    If these actresses don’t want to do what the show runners want they should hold their heads up with pride and quit, otherwise quit complaining and do the damned job.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not sure it will have that much of an effect. If they shot some nude scenes previously, they’ve already shown that they can go passed that discomfort if they judge it necessary and that’s all casting agents are looking for.

    In the case of Game of Thrones, it’s different because the actress mentionned above was asked to do multiple scenes and it’s the accumulation that seemed to have bothered her above all. When that happens after a few years, an actress should have the credibilty to say to the producers ‘okay, I’ve done it your way but enough is enough’ and be listened to. Of course, the response will likely be different if the actress is named Emilia Clarke or Esmé Bianco, and that’s what is sad.

    Of course, being cast as prostitute probably wouldn’t help either.

  • Anonymous

    In most of the fantasy genre they don’t bother or wouldn’t feel comfortable being naked. They drop trow or pull aside a loin cloth just enough to whip it out. Nudity in fantasy is seen as a sign of vulnerability or a position of weakness, this is one of the biggest weaknesses of the genre. The show is what it is and complaining about a show/book series that is known for nudity and violence being broadcast on a network known for shows full of nudity and violence is just sour grapes.

  • Anonymous

    It’s well known that the best place to discuss a rumoured political scandal is the local brothel.

  • Anonymous

    It has, shall we say, an issue with exposition characters walking in on Prostitute Practice.

  • Anonymous

    Really, those scenes would just look ridiculous if they were gender-reversed. “Dan strode into the tent, feeling his plate codpiece clank against his ‘dragon eggs’.”

  • Anonymous

    Well said. You sometimes see the gender imbalance explained away as in-universe sexism. But the camera isn’t in-universe.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    I sure wish you were around to tell Sally Ride and Rosa Parks and Hillary Clinton to stop fighting for change and to just deal with the hostile, unfair treatment in their fields of work no matter what. I’m sure your point of view would’ve been refreshing and…wait…hold on, my sources are telling me there’s no difference between your opinions and the ones held by bitter, entitled men in the 50′s and 60′s.

    “If these actresses don’t want to do what the show runners want they should hold their heads up with pride and quit, otherwise quit complaining and do the damned job.”

    The GOP called. They want their slogan back.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    Discontent with shitty business practices =/= sour grapes

    Acting =/= stripping

    Bad analogy is bad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    It is known.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Reminds me of John Scalzi’s declaration that white straight guys are going through life in “easy” mode.

  • Anonymous

    I agree 100%. I’m so tired of the gratuitous sex/nude scenes that don’t advance characters or plot. I read in a few places that it seems like there’s a boob quota for each episode and I’m starting to agree with that theory… There are so many scenes from the books I’d rather see play out than yet another brothel visit.

    I also agree with the commenter that it makes the show seem desperate for viewers when GoT has so much more to offer than just naked women!

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Yes, but I can see man-ass on FX. WTF am I paying for HBO for? Though that’s a SEPARATE issue from the fact that at least 3 Cinemax channels are showing soft core porn at 6:30 in the morning as I sit on the couch and flip channels with my daughter as we wake up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    An informative and challenging article, all told.

    The hoards of angry straight cis white guys talking about their bootstraps and Actual Real Oppression™ is funny to read, too.

  • Mina

    ” I feel no more sorry for these actresses than I do women who keep going back to men who beat on them thinking they can change them or intentionally jump from one bad relationship to another so they can keep blaming the other person for their own mistakes.”

    I feel obligated in the name of public service announcements to address this part. There are a multitude of reasons that women keep going back to men who beat them. It’s very rarely because the woman is just too stupid to take care of herself or some such nonsense. The fact is that women in abusive relationships try to leave their partner an average of seven times before they are finally able to leave for good. People saying to them that they deserve what they got because they should have had the foresight to know they’d get it only worsen the situation. The more you say that, the more shame you make them feel, and therefore the less likely they are to ask for help they know they need. If you genuinely care about women in abusive relationships, the best thing you can do to help them is meet them without judgement and tell them that whenever THEY are ready to leave, you will be there to help however you can.

    It is very much the same with the issue of actress nudity and other forms of ill treatment. Victim blaming is a truly unproductive thing to engage in. It does absolutely nothing good. The only thing it helps with is reassuring yourself that something bad could never happen to you because you’ve made all the “right” decisions to avoid it.

  • Anonymous

    /bows
    Plus ten internets to you.

  • http://www.thenerdybird.com/ Jill Pantozzi

    The amount you clearly don’t know about domestic violence is astounding. Please don’t talk about it like you do, it’s insulting.

  • Anonymous

    Let me guess. You wrote this while wearing your Charlie Sheen “Winning!” shirt, right?

  • Spam

    Definitely, as a straight male I absolutely want to see more dick, it’s just jarring when it’s just the women, and it seriously shakes my willing suspension of disbelief.
    Although, I wonder if there are any issues with showing genitalia on screen? As far as I can remember there aren’t any va-jjs on the show, perhaps it’s a censorship issue.
    Also, was anyone else impressed by Daenerys’ bath scene? I was in awe of her power, the power of her body, rather than any sense of arousal. I thought it was a very powerful moment when she walked out of the bath.

  • Spam

    As a straight male I absolutely want to see more dick, it’s just jarring when it’s just the women, and it seriously shakes my willing suspension of disbelief.
    Although, I wonder if there are any issues with showing genitalia on screen? As far as I can remember there aren’t any va-jjs on the show, and only some Hodor and Theon dick, perhaps it’s a censorship issue.
    Also, was anyone else impressed by Daenerys’ bath scene? I was in awe of her power, her nakedness was used in a way that exuded strength, rather than any sense of arousal. I thought it was a very powerful moment when she walked out of the bath.
    I have no qualms that, as a Daenerys fan boy, I squealed a little at that scene.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Thank you for taking the time to set this straight. It was a particularly egregious statement.

  • Hal Jordan

    mogh tits

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    Isn’t that the reason we’re discussing this openly on an article from an actress who discussed this openly…?

  • Katy

    I’m really quite torn on this topic. While I totally agree that there is a double standard between male and female nudity on GoT, I realize that part of this is due to Hollywood in general. For instance, a movie which features female nudity can often get a 14A rating while a movie with a hint of male nudity is often rated R or the dreaded NC17. While, it’s not an excuse, I feel that part of the imbalance in nude scenes on GoT is due to an overall attitude in Hollywood and society that female nudity is okay. Again, not an excuse. On the other hand, I feel that Weiss and Benioff are very aware of fans dislike and annoyance at the gratuitous nudity and are trying to fix the problem with mixed success. I’ve especially noticed it this season compared to the previous two. There are far less explicit scenes in the brothel (Remember Littlefinger’s speech in season 1 set to the Westeros’s Top Prostitute auditions? Nothing like that this season.); the sex scenes between couples contain a better balance of male and female nudity (compare the Robb/Talisa scene of this season to the Robb/Talisa scene of season 2); and there is much more meaningful nudity where nakedness is meant to show vulnerability or power. Consider Jaimie’s and Brienne’s bath scene. They were both naked. His nakedness, at first, was meant to intimidate Brienne, but later in the scene represented his vulnerability. Her nakedness showed her new found confidence in herself and was a display of power. By exposing herself to him, she was showing him that he couldn’t use her body or his body to intimidate her. Consider Dany’s latest nude scene. I felt the whole point of it was to show that she was in an extremely vulnerable position, no guards or weapons to defend herself against Daario, the lieutenant of a man who made very sexually aggressive comments toward her, and she wasn’t afraid, she was in control. Of course, that was until they did the pan from her feet up to her bum, like I said, trying to fix the problem, still some bumps along the way, but these actress’s comments give me hope.

  • Anonymous

    Or perhaps I know it far better than you as one who has seen it from the side of the kid so often dragged into the situation by the stupidity of a mother who who was sure love could fix the problems of other men. Or the one who saw three of his sisters repeat the same pattern once being so sure her love could change a man that she let her son be beat to the point of being in a coma, or the other two who three times went back to men that not only beat and raped them but did it to her children. I have no pity for stupidity.

    If these actresses are tired of being naked, they should quit and quit taking the money, otherwise they should shut the hell up about it and do the damned scenes.

  • Anonymous

    It is sour grapes when you knew or damned well should have known that you would be required to walk around flashing T&A from the start. If it bothers them so much they can quit, it is and always has been an option for them.

  • Laszlo

    “Nudity in fantasy is seen as a sign of vulnerability or a position of weakness, this is one of the biggest weaknesses of the genre.”
    Do you mean in-universe, like that’s how the characters think, or from a writing standpoint, like that’s what it’s supposed to make us think? Because the books and the series both subvert the latter, so it’s no excuse. If the former, I doubt it, I never got that feeling at all, to me it seemed this is a setting where “men are men” and they aren’t afraid of showing it. And in history I’m pretty sure lots of patriarchal societies were quite comfortable with male nudity, even idealized it.

  • Laszlo

    “Nudity in fantasy is seen as a sign of vulnerability or a position of weakness, this is one of the biggest weaknesses of the genre.”
    Do you mean in-universe, like that’s how the characters think, or from a writing standpoint, like that’s what it’s supposed to make us think? Because the books and the series both subvert the latter, so it’s no excuse. If the former, I doubt it, I never got that feeling at all, to me it seemed this is a setting where “men are men” and they aren’t afraid of showing it. And in history I’m pretty sure lots of patriarchal societies were quite comfortable with male nudity, even idealized it.

  • Twysted_One

    At the end of the day, HBO marketed the fantasy series for an adult audience. The presence of nudity ensures that it remains firmly in the realm of the adult (which is a good thing!). I’m a fan of the books as well as the series, and I do agree that and a lot of the nudity in the series is gratuitous (when compared to the subtlety of the books). That said, I do like the fact that the show doesn’t romanticise sex. With the brothel scenes, in particular, you really get an idea of sex as a commodity to be bought and sold. I, for one, am tired of dramatic music and hair blowing in the wind sex scenes. I like that HBO shows it for what it is. Moreover, the first season had full frontal male nudity as well. Unlike full frontal female nudity, not much is left to the imagination when it’s a male bouncing around naked. ;-)

  • Anonymous

    Thank you! This is something I’ve noticed a lot with fantasy novels by male authors, and it always makes me want to throw the book across the room. This is perhaps one of the reasons why I tend to read more fantasy by female authors.
    But who knows, perhaps men do think about their “packages” that way and that often, and they just translate it to the equivalent in their female characters? :P (Although they certainly don’t write their male characters that way!)

  • http://twitter.com/All4Av Avalon

    I felt that the bath scene was more to show how little Viserys really cared for her, aside from the political gain he could get out of her. He sees her as an object, and it was represented thus. That’s just my opinion, tho’

  • Laszlo

    Oh please, if they just quit without complaining, your type would probably say “this is just trowing a childish fit, why can’t they say what’s the problem?”, maybe even add in some shit about “women logic”.
    And actually that would be closer to the truth, if you don’t say what’s the problem, some people might not realize it’s there, so it’s better to complain.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=608581042 Eric Gehrke

    You are disgusting. You obviously know nothing about domestic violence. It is never so simple as “just leave.” And to call it stupidity and say you have no pity… I’m not sure if any of us have a soul, but you most certainly do not. I am the child of a victim of domestic violence and a victim myself. My mother is still with her abuser and let me tell you, this post turns my stomach. Domestic violence can become a pattern and women need allies who will try to help them and try to understand the emotional and psychological complexities of the cycle of violence, basically the opposite of you. The fact that you would try to compare women commenting on the inequality of nudity on their television show and domestic violence is ignorant. The two things are not even comparable. I haven’t heard a worse analogy since my step mother compared abortion to the Holocaust, but you probably think that comparison is completely valid.

    Also, the majority of your arguments do not make sense. The show has changed settings from the book, so they can include nudity. Also, what are you smoking when you say that in the books women are naked, but not men. Have you read the books? Because typically when nudity in the books happen, it’s after sex and both characters are naked. I can think of many, many passages where Marting describes breeches being unlaced and trousers pulled down. I, also, love how women should be fine with being objectified. Women don’t objectify themselves. People like you do. Also, when Sophie turns 18 and they are demanding she get her tits out, I’m sure you’ll be completely behind that.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    It can be seen that they are trying to address it, which is why having these discussions is crucial. If we’re talking about it, they’re hearing us.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    You know what gives women the fucked up idea that love fixes men.

    Fucked up narratives, like the ones you’re defending.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    You do know one of these actresses came from PORN? And they were likely hoping this would give them a chance to be less sexualized?

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    See: Ancient Greece

  • http://twitter.com/urbansuburbia Marie

    No one’s complaining that there’s sex in the show. It’s the gender biased nudity that’s at issue, irrespective of whether or not sex is occurring. (Which it usually is, because it’s GoT.)

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    We’re referring to the bath scene from this week’s episode, not the bath scene from the first episode. But that’s a good point about that particular scene.

  • http://twitter.com/All4Av Avalon

    Oops, sorry >.< I haven't quite caught up to where the rest of the world is.

  • http://twitter.com/Gauldar BOBRACHA

    I’ve been liking the storyline of Da Vinci’s Demons, and nudity between sexes seems more equal then usual productions.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Starz tends to attract creators more lenient about this. Steven DeKnight, Micheal Hirst.

  • Katy

    Totally agree. I think Weiss and Benioff are paying attention. I’ve even noticed that the women in the show are less accepting of the misogynistic comments from men in the show. I loved in Second Sons when Dany told Selmy to kill Mero first because he was a misogynistic pig.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wendy.middleton.756 Wendy Middleton

    I agree that there should be equity. But, I wish the female nudity was toned down to the same level as male nudity. However, if that happened my husband would abandon the show! :-))

  • dg101

    Well, to be fair I am often concerned with how it’s hanging. Those things can get annoying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Olivia-Ripley-Duggan/507740697 Olivia Ripley-Duggan

    I most likely will not be able to get my point across as well as anyone else on this thread, but I just have to pitch in my two pennies worth because this is a subject that has always been on my mind. I am a woman and I am relatively comfortable with getting naked when it’s to show myself off to someone I’m -say- seducing.

    But look at it this way, say someone barges in on you when you don’t expect it ie you are naked. What will a woman do? Hide her breasts, and squeeze her legs together, possibly hide with her arms, shower curtain etc. Give a woman a choice on which she would hide and I’m pretty sure it’s going to be her breasts first. I’m not speaking in generals, but I do strongly believe a majority will hide their breasts if they have to choose. I, personally, have slightly more trouble in showing my boobs to someone then pushing my pants down and showing them my bum.

    All this to say: I don’t really care if there are loads of nude scenes in films and series as long as it’s relevant to character development and/or plot. Daenerys walking out of the fire naked was absolutely necessary anyway, it re-birthed her as a new very powerful character. Similarly, Brienne hiding her breasts in the bath, to then stand in all her glorious naked defiance in front of Jaime was extremely powerful and developed their relationship further: I can bash you six ways to sunday, and yes, I am a woman.

    I don’t have trouble with that, frankly as long as the actresses are okay with it, I can only tip my hat of to them. Getting naked is one thing. Acting in a sex scene is another. And (let’s no forget) acting as the unwilling participant in a sex scene is something utterly and completely different (let’s remember that Daenerys wasn’t quite happy at first in her marriage please). Doing that in front of one person can be hard enough, but doing in in front of a whole crew and multiple times? That takes guts.

    But then let’s think back a bit, to about ten-fifteen years ago, and this is no joke (I actually noted loads of this going on). Loads of films, and not only low budget ones either; had to have a sex scene in there in the first 20 to 30 minutes. A trend that has since started to die down, thank…whoever (probably not hollywood). And these scenes were generally not necessary at all. It was a veritable boob fest for the sake of boob festing. And I like boobs,

    So when a guy willingly chucks off his shirt, I’m all for it. And if he does a full monty I am definitely all for it too. As long as it’s actually relevant to the plot. As long as there is equally as much male nudity as well as female nudity.

    Maybe Joe Dempsie wasn’t comfortable getting his whole kit off, I’m fine with that. It wasn’t exactly an important scene anyway. What’s the point in shoving all this nudity in our faces when it’s not necessary? It’s hardly titillation anymore now is it? Do we really have to get an encyclopaedia out?

    Personally I much prefer seeing nice cleavage in-cased in lingerie, that sure titillates me. Or a bit of male hip jutting out from between shirt and pants, that titillates me too.

    I’d really like to get feedback on this, I know I veered of course quite a bit but I hope/think that’s nor too much of a problem?

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Well, sure and my nipples chap. Still don’t mean I’m thinking about them ALL THE TIME!

  • http://twitter.com/TwoBodyProblem Aaron Potter

    There is some gratuitous nudity they don’t do in the show that they did in the books. Didn’t stylish women in Quarth have one breast exposed?

  • http://twitter.com/TwoBodyProblem Aaron Potter

    If I remember correctly, the women in Quarth leave one breast exposed and I think Deny adopts the style. So, I agree that the books are hardly gratuitous nudity-free.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dbelle77 Dixie-Ann Belle

    It looks like my hunch was correct. Thanks for the responses everyone. I don’t get HBO, and though I was curious to see the show, the comments I read started to make me feel that the nudity was rather gratuitous, and I heard a lot about it being mostly females. Not really my thing.

  • Tegan Dumpleton

    I was not impressed with the amount of nudity of the last episode. One was a sex scene, the other was… uh… to so that Daenerys is… confident? Comfortable with her body? Either way, both felt more like eye candy. I was taken out of the story, confused, made unconfortable, and a little bored.
    But saying that guys should show their junk isn’t an answer. Women don’t show their groins. Same goes for ass shots. having the “guys show more” won’t be as helpful as just showing woman less AND making it tasteful.

  • Skye

    *Pounds on table*
    SHOW US THE PEEN!
    For um…equality purposes only…yeah.
    *coughs*
    Please?

  • illustar

    Frankly, the nudity is why I don’t watch the show at all. It’s sad to me that we can’t seem to have a fantasy TV show with high production values and that takes itself seriously, but keeps it clean and family-friendly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1026609730 Jim Balter

    Only when there are as many non-beautiful as beautiful women on screen will any beautiful woman be in a position to talk about being known for her acting rather than her looks or to complain about disparities between female and male nudity. Acting ability isn’t irrelevant, but it’s by far the only thing that gets people roles like this.

  • Sara Potter

    So if you’re pretty you shouldn’t expect to be treated well or taken seriously at work because…you’re pretty? That just makes it okay? Nice try, but no.

  • http://www.facebook.com/smwildmon Sarah Wildmon

    Family friendly? Have you read the books? I mean, this is an adult series on HBO that comes on at 9pm. Sex in the circumstance of that world (and this one as a matter of fact) is reality. You imply that including nudity in a show that people cut each others body parts off, rape and pillage (also historical reality) means that it isn’t taking itself seriously. You prefer they sugarcoat it I presume? I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my grown folks show to resemble Muppet Treasure Island. I know what boobs and penises look like. I’m not intimidated by seeing them on screen. Stick with Once Upon a Time on ABC if the nudity freaks you out.

  • illustar

    No, no, I’m not saying I think they should cauterize the show. I’m a big proponent of source material accuracy in adaptations. I just wish they’d adapted a different series altogether. Of all the fantasy book series to bring to TV, they chose one notorious for its explicit content, and I’m disappointed that it seems nobody is interested in giving the same quality of consideration to any of dozens of great fantasy series that *don’t* capitalize on sex and violence. All the other fantasy TV I can recall invariably comes off cheesy and half-hearted.

  • Erik Wise

    As a gay man who’s read Martin’s ASOIAF series three times, my thoughts are a little different from the majority of those posted here; although I notice that a few commenters whom I am in general agreement with me on the issue of nudity.

    Honestly, nudity doesn’t bother me. (Outside of public nudity, I suppose.) The
    human form is beautiful in all its many shapes and sizes. With that being said,
    there is a general acceptance with permitting and/or encouraging female nudity
    over male nudity. Often for profit or for purposes of controlling and/or subjugation.

    Sure, there’s quite a bit of nudity in GOT. When it shows up in scenes with Ros and the other prostitutes of Westeros, it’s hard to de-couple that from the misogynistic world that is very much engrained in the cultural and political DNA of Martin’s fictitious fantasy world.

    But make no mistake: This is Westeros. Not Middle-Earth, Hogwarts, or Narnia. Martin’s novels read more as quasi-historical fiction than traditional fantasy. Think of it as the War of the Roses, but set in a fictional world with medieval trappings. I would dislike a completely sanitized version of GOT on HBO just as much as I would find nudity jarring, gratuitous, and even creepy where it to show up in Narnia, Middle-Earth, or Hogwarts. (No matter how pretty Aragorn or Legolas are, I don’t need to see either of them nude. In LOTR, that is.)

    There’s quite a bit of sex-shaming in the comments here, and that bothers me. As a gay man, I know all about how society shames people for their sexuality. Sex is a part of life, and Martin quite purposely wove sexuality, sex, and nudity into his novels. He wanted his novels to breath realism. The good, the bad, the ugly, and the sexy. And I appreciate that the producers and writers of GOT have chosen to incorporate sexuality into their television adaptation, as oppose to abandon or shy away from that out of prudery. (Tangent: I can’t stand American prudery, body-shaming, and sex-shaming. Especially hypocritical prudery, body-shaming, and sex-shaming from the religiously self-righteous. But that’s another issue.)

    Another thing that surprises me in the comments I’ve read here is the complete lack of acknowledgement of not only the male nudity in the show (which has increased this season, which delights both me and several of my straight female friends), but the gay sex scenes that invariably involve Loras.

    In fact, I’ve had some deep frustration with heterosexual fans and bloggers of
    the show who are either dismissive of the gay relationships/sex and male nudity
    in the show, or who ignore it entirely. Two cases in point: 1.) after the scene
    with Loras a few episodes back, very few of the online reviewers even mentioned that plot-point involving him and the male squire; 2.) when the very first gay sex scene between Loras and Renly in season one, not only were there dozens upon dozens of (usually straight male) fans who were up in arms (which proves that they can’t pay attention to detail when reading the novels, as Martin hinted towards that in not-so-subtle ways), but I even had to listen to several straight guys complain about Loras and Renly being gay while standing in line outside a Boston-area Barnes & Noble back in July 2011 when book five was released and with Martin himself in attendance as he was signing copies. (I
    wonder if they asked Martin about that? Just so he could set them “straight.”
    Ahem.)

    In short, nudity is less of an issue with me than heterosexism, sex-shaming, and hypocrisy.

    As for another perspective, are there any lesbian viewers/fans of the books out there? I would love to hear from that perspective.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    Yes, let’s divide and separate the ‘beautiful’ women from the ‘non-beautiful’ women. It’s not like beauty is predominately a social construct and highly subjective, and it’s not like we want women of all shapes and sizes to stand together.

    What a worthless comment.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ashe.samuels Ashe P. Samuels

    I remember being really surprised they showed as much as they did with Renly and Loras. I expected them to cop out by resorting to measly hints and tidbits (or just plain ol’ erasure) in order to avoid the backlash of frightened homophobes.

    Hopefully, if those guys you’re talking about did bring it up to Martin, he gave them a nice verbal suplex.

  • http://baduterusrising.blogspot.com/ platypism

    Your points about the Loras/Renly scenes are really interesting. I think I was sheltered from the reactions, since I wasn’t really involved in any conversations on the internet at the time, and the only two real-world friends I had to talk to about it were my gay male friend and my boyfriend. I just remember being pleased that they had made the subtext very clear instead of shying away from it.

    That makes me think, though, that while the female nudity is still often gratuitous, the show *is* capable of showing men (gay, straight or somewhere in-between) through the lens of desire. And that’s a good thing. I want to be clear that I am not arguing for *objectification* of men, but showing them nude in terms of sexuality and/or vulnerability (I’m thinking Jaime in the baths in this case) is still a step in the right direction. That sort of nudity is, as you put it, very human, and humanizing.

    If all the characters with sex scenes or nude scenes had this sort of humanizing quality, I don’t believe the sex or nudity would bother me. It is when the women become sexual objects, rather than women who have sex or wear no clothes, that the problem arises. That the show is capable of making nudity and sexuality humanized is awesome, and there is evidence for it with both the men and women, which I think makes the failures more glaring.

  • Erik Wise

    I think what’s hard about watching some of the female nudity, or the kind that you and many are critical of (the objectification kind) is the context of it within the show. And the context being that Westeros is extremely misogynistic. (Understatement?) Which is ironic, in the terms of the fantasy genre, because there are so many more strong female characters in ASOIAF/GOT than there are in most fantasy novels and series. In fact, if you think about it, Tolkien (the godfather of all fantasy) created a world that is essentially just as male-dominant (with limited exceptions, as with Galadriel and Eowyn), but skirts (no pun intended) the entire issue of misogyny. In short, traditional fantasy presumes a male-dominated world without question or comment, but Martin (and the producers of the show) is more than blunt about it. And I appreciate that.

    Westeros is one of the best reflections, via the fantasy genre, of the real world. Just because it has unsavory things in it (or more than unsavory, as with the excruciating torture of Theon, who is himself an a-hole and with whom it makes me uncomfortable and confusing to empathize) does not mean Martin or the producers of the show are endorsing those unsavory things. IIt would be an easy cop-out for me to watch the deep homophobia in Westeros and assume that Martin is being anti-gay. He’s not. In fact, this is the first time I’ve ever seem a gay relationship in the fantasy genre. (Don’t count anything in the work of Marion Zimmer Bradley, because that was self-loathing nonsense. Then again, MZB’s husband was an oddly closeted fellow, and I’m sure her views and portrayals of gay men in her books was heavily influenced by that.) I would hate to live in a world or society that white-washes everything. Being a sexual minority myself, I know all too well how naively dangerous that can be.

    Westeros: A great place to visit (by book or television), but I wouldn’t want to live there. And that’s oddly a compliment.

  • Phil Smith

    You know, out of all of the wonderful fantasy series out there, they had to pick Game of Thrones to turn into a television show. What a bunch of bullshit. I’m sorry, but Game of Thrones is a piss-poor example of good fantasy in my opinion. The story is convoluted as hell, it’s absurdly and unnecessarily violent, and it’s got more sex and tits than the front page of Spankwire. I don’t know, it’s just not my cup of tea. A show based on the Riyria Revelations or Mistborn would have been leagues better. Either way, I hope that the actresses get all pissy about having to get nude and leave the show and the show crashes. That’d be hilarious.

  • Erik Wise

    Then don’t watch it. Obviously. But as for the show crashing: Tens of millions of fans worldwide who watch it would disagree.

  • Phil Smith

    Why do people feel the need to say ‘Well then don’t watch it?’

    No shit, dude. I don’t watch it. However, this is a website that encourages discussion of opinions. That’s what I was doing.

    And I could not really give any less fucks about ‘tens of millions of fans.’

  • Erik Wise

    There are shows that I think are too stupid for me to watch. I don’t watch them and I don’t go on line to trash them.

    With that said, I certainly think you’re more than welcome to post anything here that you’d like. (Subject to the terms of the website.)

    And I don’t think the tens of millions of fans of ASOIAF/GOT give a fuck about you either. The feeling is mutual.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    The discussion between in universe sexism was had, and the fact remains, the CAMERA isn’t in universe, and there is a difference between using a camera to DEPICT objectification, and using the camera to objectify. The writers of this show DO NOT know the difference.

    The point you make, that gay men are the only clothed characters the audiences see unclothed(Drogo doesn’t count as he never wore a shirt), aside from Theon, is a good one, and I think points to the cultural stigma against gay men, and the negative associations with womanhood. The stigma against gay people from homophobes, stems from strict gender roles and the conflation that sex with men is demeaning to the “receiving” person.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    You make a point, as since GOT premiered there have been a few that attempts to capture the “gritty realism” of the show on basic cable, that necessarily can’t be as explicit, but they still allude to the sex and violence they can’t depict explicitly, like Vikings(while not straight fantasy, it and GOT are genre cousins, IMO).

    What it’s going to take is execs realizing the audience’s appetite is FOR fantasy, not just gritty realistic fantasy.

    OUaT is a good example. The effects are cheesy and campy, but THAT’S a deliberate aesthetic choice, IMO. The crappy green screen MAKES it look like a storybook illustration. I know some people don’t agree with the visualization, but it’s not because the creators are half assing it.

  • Erik Wise

    “[T]hat gay men are the only clothed characters the audiences see unclothed.” You do realize that made no sense?

    But seriously, we’ve seen Robb and Jaime both nude this season. Your argument (however poorly worded) is invalid.

    And stop arguing with all caps. It reminds me of rabid, right-wing commenters on Yahoo and other sites.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Get over it, Disqus doesn’t do HTML well, it’s the only way to emphasize words.

    I was under the assumption you were referring to earlier in the series, since you brought up Renly, not the current season, so no. not invalid.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I SIDED with you in what I assumed to be your objection to the depiction of gay men, who were at first, the ONLY sexualized men on the show, and linked it back to the shared oppressions of women.

    I was initially taken aback by the fact that you’re upset about the fact that a discussion about the objectification of women, on a women centered sight, didn’t also address the objectification of gay men. Or maybe that’s NOT what you’re arguing. Talk about poorly worded.

    And I’d also like to see examples of the sex-shaming you’ve seen in these comments, cuz that was kinda an odd non-sequitor, IMO.

  • http://www.facebook.com/heather.l.jenkins.77 Heather Louise Jenkins

    It irritates me so much that I gave up on Game of Thrones altogether after one series. It’s a shame because I loved some of it, but even the really, really good parts weren’t enough to make up for it, and eventually I just couldn’t be bothered to watch it any more.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1064437317 Thalia Sutton

    Whichever actress it was, good for her for speaking up, and even better for being able to make change happen (along with whatever viewer contingent may or may not have affected change to the issue as well).

  • Anonymous

    There is also very little VAGINA on GoT. Pubic fuzz doesn’t count. If straight women and gay men want to demand more penis thrust in their gaze then go ahead, but us straight fellas are going to want to see more lady bits.

  • http://twitter.com/bibliolicious Dr Nic

    The moment when she walked out of the bath was also a callback to her introduction in the very first episode, right? Contrast her vulnerability there with her strength now. She’s awesome.

  • http://twitter.com/bibliolicious Dr Nic

    Congratulations, this is the stupidest comment I’ve read online today. Which takes some doing.

    Who in “fantasy” would feel uncomfortable? Characters? Or the authors who control the characters?

  • Dani St La Rue

    Partial Spoilers/Book Clarification – won’t go past the previous episode:

    ” . . . have you gelded”, ” . . . kill that one, first”, actually all of that is in the books. Martin, wrote that. He also wrote an empowered young girl; forced to grow up quickly but excel at it through self realization and the love/support of her significant other.

    D. & D. are listening but they have a ways to go, cuz it was already there. Not just writing but direction makes a difference too. I’ve not been a big fan of her acting in past seasons and am starting to feel like it’s not all on her.

    As to the scene . . . Other than them making Mero even more, unnecessarily grody, much of what Dany, Jorah and others said was from the books. As a matter of fact, she told them to kill Mero, to his face. She was flippant, dismissive and superior to boasts of his supposed sexual and combat prowess; in a way that broke through his wall of confidence and put him on the defensive. Would have been nice to see that instead but can understand your liking the scene as it was.

    - Book reader/ranter out – flame on.

  • Spam

    Oh! You just made it so much better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bogslug Daniel Latta

    Well, so much for Game of Thrones…

  • Anonymous

    “The feeling I get is that they want to preserve the “dignity” of important men, but they don’t feel the same about women.”

    Yeah, this. This is supposed to be American made show anyway and I heard somewhere that HBO has restrictions on onscreen, male nudity in regards to how long they show it or what. It’s kind of weird.

  • http://www.facebook.com/veronica.deee Veronica Dee

    And I’m reminded of why the only website I’ll read the comments for is The Mary Sue. No cursing, no name calling, and in the end, someone makes me laugh.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t watch because there’s nudity in it at all, and I don’t trust HBO or most networks/Hollywood to handle that sort of thing tastefully. From what I’ve seen and read, I’m right.

  • Diedra Rater

    I agree with a lot of the commenters here that nudity that has a purpose and is story-driven is fine, but when it’s just nudity for the sake of it, it can be very distracting or just plain stupid.

    The sad thing is, in general the important nude scenes that make sense and further character development are right out of the books. The original nude sections written for the show are wastes of time and detract from the actual plot developments happening in the scene. (I’m sure there are exceptions though.)

    I think it’s interesting that someone mentioned Esme Bianco (Ros) because I really want to know wtf was up with her storyline. It seemed so random and never really went anywhere.

  • Constance

    I wish the “western world” didn’t view women’s breasts as sexual objects – especially in the hot summer months when men are running around topless, but women are “asking for it” when they wear thin, spaghetti-strapped shirts or sports bras.

  • Anonymous

    I watched about 30 minutes of The Game of Thrones, and swore never again. “Gratuitous” is the perfect word for the show. In that 30 minutes, I saw gratuitous graphic sex several times and constant nudity for no apparent reason. It’s simply soft-core porn. HBO is dragging the culture down as low as it can.

  • Barbara R.

    No nudes….no job Now you know why they were all killed!

  • Richard August

    The difference between flat-out pornography and TV series thinly veiled as “drama” is blurring to the point that there is virtually no difference. Hearing that one actress is getting so sick and tired of being naked on camera in the series is quite refreshing because there are also audience members who are so sick and tired of senseless nudity and sex that we’re turning our TVs off in disgust, in droves.

  • Edohiguma

    It’s just a TV show. Cry more.

  • Shannon Martin

    Oh give me a break. The show doesn’t feature a woman’s vagina, though SO many shows outright feature penis it’s not even funny. Spartacus had a scene where you should have blatantly seen the vagina but the show DIGITALLY removed it. Yet so many different programs will show a close up of actual penis all the time but NEVER vagina. They will show breasts… But lets face it, how many of you ladies have showed your girls for a free drink or beads? When game of thrones starts showing real vagina and no penis, then we can all have a pity party and start burning our tampons along with our bras to prove a point. Now on to my other thought. This show is Game of Thrones. It is not a show that is going to be discussed in our beauty salons, but more so the guys comic book stores, golf courses and gentlemen’s clubs. This is a show that has guys in mind more than girls cause it is geared towards them. Men don’t want to stare at a huge penis and they are the MAJORITY of viewers for this show and others like it. Why the show Spartacus started putting in homosexual love scenes between two men and started showing close up penis’s I will never know. My boyfriend stopped watching that show as soon as Spartacus started up with that crap. And if you look at the ratings, the major drop in them occurred when Spartacus started in with the homo stuff and the male anatomy close ups. Let’s face it, whether it is a great show or not (it definitely is!), it is geared towards the firmer sex, not us soft ladies.

  • http://musesings.wordpress.com/ Saronai Aldarion

    I have to fully admit this bugged me about the series. I love the books, but I long since stopped watching the HBO show. The books have their scenes, and I’m okay with that, but I found it annoying they had to sneak a scene in every episode. Even so, whatever, if the show is good for those of us who don’t need/particularly get into the softcore porn parts.

    I got severely annoyed though as the series went on and I realized they’re going to make every single female character show her tits…they’ll probably even find a way to get Brienne’s in there…possibly Arya’s if she ages enough during production. I do think women should be allowed to do that in hot weather as much as men should…but that’s not really what’s going on here. Westeros is already unkind to women in the books, I don’t need obviously tilted filming to go along with that. Show us your tits, honey, just because it’s that kind of show?

    No thanks. More power to the actress saying no, they’ve seen enough of my tits. Let’s get on with the story, shall we? In case they don’t realize it, the story is more important than seeing all the female cast topless for no other reason than…oh hey, bewbies!

    As to the commenter saying that’s when she’ll get killed off…I doubt they’d kill off someone who doesn’t die in the books, and if they did, they’re only helping to prove the titshows are a sign of misogyny, rather than pure ratings-based entertainment with nothing against the actresses. Show me your tits or your character will have an “accident” and you’re off the show? Yeah…I consider that way more than a problematic approach when filming a fantasy world that sucks for women already and, no matter how it tries to fit in that once an episode scene, is not porn.

    I’m sure people disagree. It’s the nature of an opinion, and that one is mine. I actually watched the show longer than my husband. He got me into SoIaF books. As a matter of fact…I just realized I stopped reading the book I was on around the same time too. I think I ODed terminally on the way women are objectified in the HBO series that it’s ruined my ability to tolerate how women are treated in the story (for now, I really do like the books and want to eventually get back into them). I love how so many are strong despite the crap that’s happened to them, but coupled with reality in the HBO series having an “every actress must show her tits at least once” approach…even though it’s not a porno…I feel nauseated again.

    I don’t have a problem with the nudity/partial nudity where it makes sense and in naughty scenes that are necessary to the story (such as what Bran saw that got him thrown from the window), I just think the once an episode push, regardless of need detracts from the story (I’d have much rather seen more of Arya’s time as a street rat than a scene where Little Finger is training his prostitutes), and each actress of age showing her tits at least once in scenes that really don’t call for it/add to the story only reinforces the idea that women are inferior and their tits, rather than their acting or role in the story, are their major reasons for being in the story in the first place (your character is not enough to entertain, sorry, you’re gonna have to show your tits).

    They’re not showing the private parts, so I get that they’re not gonna show all the men’s penises…but…well, we have yet to see all the attractive male behinds or even their chests sans clothing. A large number of them, yes, but it doesn’t seem to be as much of a role requirement as actresses showing their boobs. And while we may not want to see what all the male cast looks like, even just shirtless, I’m forced to note…perhaps it’s because they weren’t cast with an eye out for inevitable nude scenes the way the females all seem to have been.

    Sex sells…but so does a lack of sex. Heck, the longest running series on TV is something you can safely watch with the kids (for the most part; Yes, referencing Dr. Who). Sex just sells to certain groups, and loses other groups…it’s more of a trade off, honestly. That doesn’t mean I think non-porn shows shouldn’t have sex scenes at all, or all shows should be something you can watch with your kids, like Dr. Who. It just means I think it’s silly to justify gratuitous sex and nudity at the cost of more story and character development as “well, it sells,” shrug, and be on your way.

    TLDR: Unless you’re specifically shopping for porn, good story sells, the other stuff is just a bonus and should never exist at the cost of good story and characters, let alone forced for some misguided at least once an episode/actress quota.

  • Ernie

    There’s plenty of male nudity in the books. I don’t see why it’s being left off the screen…

    Oh wait, yes I do. The Censors think male nudity is obscene but female nudity is not. Wait, wait, what? HBO doesn’t have a ratings or censor board at all? Hmm, that’s interesting.

    At the very least, I could understand why Theon Greyjoy’s “cut” scene didn’t involve any nudity. The actor is probably just not up to Theon’s reputation. Could you imagine everyone waxing rhapsodic about how huge he is, only to reveal that he’s only 5 inches?

  • Ernie

    Which also explains why the first few episodes of any series are loaded with nudity, but it pretty much disappears after a while.

    Maybe it’s because men are suckers like that? More than likely though, women aren’t any better, it’s just that the gender stereotypes we’re all raised with *say* they are.

  • Ernie

    Oh, so you haven’t read the books, have you?

  • http://nerdofalltrades.tumblr.com/ Angry And Yellow

    I’ve read all 5 books. What’s your point?

  • Anonymous

    That show by its very nature was already going to scare away a great deal of heterosexual males. When man-on-man rape is going to be a regular feature of your show, swinging cod doesn’t seem as significant.

  • Nova

    It’s Game of Thrones…have they read it? Rape and nudity are major elements of the books, and get more and more so as the series goes on. The series is basically little more than porn by the final books.

  • Anonymous

    It’s funny what actors will do in the name of “art” and how they’ll justify it. The whole “whatever” attitude is that of naive teenager. I wonder if they’re fine with walking down the street naked. Or, maybe, having them be filmed while taking a #1 or #2 with a camera placed carefully in the toilet – if it’s critical to the plot and adds to the story. Ya know – it’s how actors express their character and all that.

  • Anonymous

    >>until we grow up, and realize that SEX is nothing more, nothing less than a biological function,

    Ironic. I think you need to grow up because your statement is rather naive and rather shallow.

  • Anonymous

    >>Would you say the same to a black actor dealing with blatant racism and discrimination? Or a gay actor struggling with stereotyping and microaggressions on and off the set?

    Did you get this from a sociology and psychology college text book? Like seriously.

  • Anonymous

    The DNC called. They want to award you with “Best Recited Reactions When Dealing With People Who Don’t Buy the Victimhood Mentality.”

    ALL of your posts on this article seems like it came out of the feminist manifesto with a sub title “equality.”

  • LPMcC

    If Emilia Clarke is putting her foot down about nudity then bravo for her! The only place i thought her nudity was appropriate was at the end of Season One. She is usually clothed and is still the most beautiful woman on GoT.

  • Anonymous

    “Is the nudity to bring in blokes who need wanking material? Then knock it the fuck off. If it lends to the story, and is done tastefully, bring it on.”

    Why is it that nudity of all things must be justified?
    Isn’t everything on a show like this gratuitous? Including the story?
    I mean, it’s not as if it’s important for anyone to know the history of Westeros, or to know how the war of the five kings turns out. It’s all entertainment. It’s all there to titillate the audience. It’s all there to provide a framework for action, romance, drama, heroes for people to root for, villains for people to hate, good looking actors and actresses for people to fantasize about, and yes… sex and nudity.

    And why do you have a problem with men finding women, and female bodies attractive?

  • Heisenberg

    Game of Thrones is entertainment for adults. I think the nudity in the show actually helps set the tone of the series. I only recall one scene that I thought was too gratuitous, between two female prostitutes. But as a heterosexual adult male, I enjoy the hell out of the nudity in the show.

    Emilia Clarke is an absolutely beautiful woman. However, if she never gets naked again in the show, I’m ok with that, because her character has progressed beyond that. In the first season, she was completely vulnerable and at the whims of her evil brother and her barbarian husband. Now she is establishing herself as a “take no bullshit” kind of ruler, so I don’t expect her character to be taken advantage of sexually again.

  • Anonymous

    Well pointed!

  • http://nerdofalltrades.tumblr.com/ Angry And Yellow

    My having read all the books has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with your point, which I don’t. Yes, the books can be very graphic and explicit in their description of sex and violence such as the fight between the Red Viper and the Mountain or the first time that Sam has sex. However, “explicit” imagery is not the same “gratuitous” imagery. A passionate sex scene between Dany and Daario is explicit, but appropriate and driven by story. Flashing Melisandre’s boobs in a scene that never takes place in the books is gratuitous.

  • Anonymous

    Bothers me because I enjoyed the books, and thought the show would be enjoyable as well. Given how much sex and grisly violence are in the books, I didn’t expect it to be Disneyfied, no, but when I’ve told my wife how enjoyable the books are and she saw all the gratuitous sex in the first couple of episodes, she was determined to never watch it again.

  • Shawn Kennedy

    The sex in the books has been important to the plot. It shows facets of the characters. Be it Tyrion who is so tortured he wants to bury himself in carnal pleasures and never come up for air. Littlefinger who sees it as just another tool to bring someone under thumb, or Cersei who thinks having sex with someone she is not supposed to gives her power. It is also no surprise that sex is a big part of the pathology of someone willing to declare themself a ruler with rights over all others. I will admit that by comparison the TV series handles it a bit ham-fistedly, but for a thinking adult it still accomplishes its aim. It’s never been just boobs flopping about. Every scene has peeled back into a character, be it their manipulative nature, vulnerability, depravity, greed or gullibility. It does whet it is meant to do, use base instinct and desire to show more of who the character is.

  • kc jives

    well said @Luminous_Being:disqus I completely agree!

  • Ellesarath Moonsnow

    Okay, so I’m gonna speak my mind here. The series is based upon books, these books are based upon the medieval ideals and so on. This means that some things are going to be terribly demeaning, primitive and even brutal. While I defend the idea that equality should be strived for within media I do not approve of this “fairness” campaign. It is not about fair, it is about stories. And quite frankly I think people should be allowed to tell whatever stories they want, and I assume the actresses/actors of GoT were all quite familiar with the works? Want more c***k; go watch Spartacus or another work with similar male portrayal. If there is nothing else try driving through a project that suits your tastes. Don’t target an adult, it is 18+ rated right?, series for it’s nudity content.
    Do I personally care? No not really, “the internet is made for porn”, I have little use for some boobs, or dicks in my TV show and I would rather have more intrigue and less lovemaking.

    That said I think that the series should not be taken for reality, in *any* aspect. It has far to many flaws for it to be even close to a real story about real people. It is probably meant to entertain, engage and intrigue the audience. It is just as likely not a suggestion for how we should treat women, build our system of government or anything along those lines. Maybe the actress should point that out instead, since it has become such a popular work of fiction; it has flaws, and is demeaning to women in a lot of aspects.

    P.S I have *not* read A Song of Fire and Ice, and I have no idea if the director(s) are cutting out male nudity, if they are I think they shouldn’t. Preserve the work as it is, running it through some stupid regulations filter is just going to water it down.

  • Pat

    The problem with showing a balance of nudity between both men and women is flawed because a woman has more nudity to reveal, namely breasts. For the purpose of this post, a man’s bare chest is not considered nudity. So, is it fair to say,”show more male genitals to equal the amount of female breasts revealed.”? Not really. I say if a male genital is shown, then it can only be equaled by revealing female genitals. However, the state of male genitals (flaccid or erect) might be taken into consideration. It seems that from most perceptions, it can be concluded that viewers compare a flaccid male genital to a female breast, and perhaps an erect male genital to a female genital. It’s ridiculous, but how can you really compare male and female nudity when their respective nude parts are so different? Without a scientific table that everyone agrees on comparing which parts of male nudity equals whatever parts of female nudity, there will never be an answer that pleases everyone. It’s all relative. My vote is for no sausage, more pie, but of course there will be others who want the exact opposite and those who don’t want to see either or one or the other even if the portions are divided equally (which can’t really been done since male and female bodies are so different unless you equal a man’s bare chest to a woman’s bare chest and do not consider the different states that lower genitals can be in). This is by far the most ridiculous post I’ve ever written anywhere.

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  • Dswynne

    I’m surprised that the producers of GoT didn’t use a body double to begin with.

  • Kristi Kinch

    Women are frequently cast for their anatomical attributes, and having small or imperfect breasts is indeed considered a negative. Maybe this would simply create another step in the casting process for men. Or they could use a “peen” double.

  • Kristi Kinch

    A topless woman can be arrested for it. I think the part on a man most analogous to the breasts would be the butt. That being said, there has been attractive female nudity obviously meant as fanservice, and the two brief glimpses of penis I caught were intentionally repulsive. Totally. Not. Fair.

  • Melanie Sinclair

    Quite frankly I don’t see the attraction for the show, the books were terribly misogynistic and I am sure the show is too, not to mention that EVERYONE dies, though when I was reading the series the last book had not come out and so I never read it. He obviously hates women and HBO has a massive history of exploitation of women’s bodies, the way the women were treated in the series Deadwood was just horrifying. I don’t care if it’s historically accurate, it’s disgusting, and we can do much better. There seems to be this massive retro trend in TV and movies so that they can get away with showing such horrible treatment of women. We could see some naked sexually exploited men for a change, or just how about less of this BS all around!

  • Gorhob Perkins

    Rofl. Oh Please.

  • Zagreus

    My wife loves the show, so do I, though she asks that I fast forward it when a scene is too violent (like when Greyjoy was getting tortured ad nauseum).

  • Chris Archer

    More equality of nudity on the show? I have only seen male genitalia on that show and never once seen women genitalia. We see shirtless men just as much as shirtless woman.

  • Mattias Von Bismarck

    Sorry, but they show damn near no vagina. And plenty of penis. There needs to be more vagina, period. Boobs DO NOT equal penis.

  • Anonymous

    erm, the 3 women playing prostitutes were/are porn performers, so actually 3 of the women here do actually have “porn bodies.”

  • Anonymous

    I think the main issue is the show is happy to show two women going at each other at length explicitly but wont show a man giving another man a bj, or show explicitly a man going down on a woman. so i think its more than just the nudity from what i have read in the comments.

  • BoxingCannabyte Epicurus

    “Flashing Melisandre’s boobs in a scene that never takes place in the books is gratuitous.”

    Um, not necessarily. For someone going on and on about context and story-driven nudity and violence, you seem to have a double-standard when it comes to what’s in the books vs on-screen.

    What if one of the points for displaying violence, for example, is that violence is pointless, like the slaughter or orgy we’re seeing?

  • BoxingCannabyte Epicurus

    “I’m labeled a criminal for life and a sex offender if I take off my shirt in public in real life in the USA. ” that would be highly unlikely. If a man flashed his dick around the same area you flashed your boobs, I guarantee the man gets in more trouble than the woman.

    Though I agree that you should be able to show us your tits in almost any situation.

    Also, let’s not ignore the double-standard that men face as well, women face plenty, but pretending men don’t face any is dishonest. If I whipped my cock out in front of you, you could get me in a huge amount of trouble. If you flashed me your tits, I wouldn’t even report you, most men I’ve ever met wouldn’t. But there’s a fair chance you’d report me.

    Just think on that. And even if you wouldn’t report me, you surely could pose this question to some of your girlfriends and see if they would. I’m sure the majority would at least sasy they would, or joke about slapping it or cutting it off or something along those lines.

    PS: Don’t be so easily offended when you yourself are being as “offensive” by your own standards.

  • Jenny

    What I noticed was that lots of pretty women got completely naked and in disgustingly compromising positions at that, YET, none of the attractive males showed their private parts, EVER! A couple of creepy dudes did, but YUCK!