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Amy Adams Comments On Fan Reactions To New Wonder Woman’s Body


Amy Adams was caught off-guard the last time she was asked about our new Wonder Woman, Gal Gadot.  Seems like she might have been this time as well, but damned if she doesn’t pull our great answers anyway. 

And let’s not forget when she politely said “No, thank you” to the idea of a love triangle between Lois, Superman, and Wonder Woman. These new statements seem to be from what looks like the same round of interviews (she’s wearing the same blouse in both videos) Adams did for American Hustle. When an MTV interviewer mentioned there was a lot of negative talk on social media about Gadot’s body, Adams had a look of concern.

“I’m not familiar with her body shape,” she said, adding that she doesn’t “buy into that,” meaning women need not look a certain way to play a comic book character. She certainly didn’t think Lois had to in Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel.

“I’m certainly not a classically drawn woman as they exist in comic books, and so I had to embrace that I had just had a baby, I still hadn’t gotten my waist back,” she told them. “And I was like, you know, Lois is not about proportions, Lois is about her intellect and her savvy reporting skills and her empathy for Clark, and so I just didn’t think about it. And I know anybody who’s working with Zack, if she’s working with Zack, and she’s going to be Wonder Woman, she is going to be yoked, man. He is going to make her a beast.”

For those not sure, “yoked” means a strong or muscular body. And I only say that because i had to look it up.

(via MTV)

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  • eric bouchard

    look up the Man of Steel extras about the training. That training crew is insane. Trust me, she will look massive if it what they need.

  • athenia45

    I remember the actresses from Xena talking about how they actually weren’t very “muscular” for their parts. It was commented that Xena’s arm bands made Lucy Lawless look more muscular than she actually was. Both Lucy and the actress who played Callisto said that Gabrielle (Renee O’Conner) was the one who could kick both their butts!

    What I’m trying say–it’s all in the movie magic folks!

  • http://pontoonification.blogspot.com/ AverageDrafter

    Seriously, if tubby ass Chris Prat can yolk up for GotG, why in hell do people not think that Gadot can do the same. You know why she’s not ripped now? Because that’s not the accepted look for a woman in Hollywood, and she gotta play the game – soft and “feminine” even when she’s supposed to be a bad ass Mossad agent.

    Fancasting hacks really lack in imagination, I mean I would of loved to have Jamie Alexander in the role too, but more for her enthusiasm for the character and comics in general than her (admittedly totally perfect) appearance.

  • Laura Truxillo

    For me, it’s less that I thought Gadot couldn’t Amazon up and more that I was thinking Snyder might rather keep her waif-like.

  • Gerald Kirby

    I would love if this became the new model for Wonder Woman in comics: http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/just-wondering-splurt-bwahahahahahahahahah-419873645

  • kbroxmysox

    Yeah that’s my concern. Or that he’ll sexualize the heck out of her. Spend more time on getting her in a sexy outfit than making her strong. Any remember his “feminist” movie Sucker Punch. Nothing says, “I respect that woman!” like an up the skirt shot.

  • Annika Raaen

    I still wish Wondy’s debut was in her own movie. :(

  • Anonymous

    I agree it’s a valid concern, in particular, given the way we are unfortunately used to writers and artists treating Wonder Woman. However, in Snyder’s defense, Man of STeel was one of the first and ONLY superhero properties ever where there were multiple female characters and NONE of them were sexualized.

    AS clearly seen from the costumes she’s wearing in American Hustle and the attention she’s getting for her body, Amy Adams is a gorgeous woman. She’s one of those actresses that seemingly tries to play down her beauty so she can be taken seriously. (Which is another issue in and of itself in the industry.) But the focus on Lois in Man of Steel was professional. Lois wore literal business suits and minimal make-up for most of the movie. Faora wore head to toe body armour without showing any skin and she wasn’t sexualized at all. I think the fear for Wonder Woman is valid. But I can’t deny that the women in Man of Steel were not at all exploited in a genre where skintight costumes and exploitation tend to be the norm. I know this gets to be a tricker conversation bc Wonder Woman’s costume can be easy for some to get wrong/exploit. But it’s worth remembering anyway.

  • Anonymous

    That’s good. I like that.

  • Anonymous

    That’s always been the double standard with actors and actresses. Pratt is a good example. Another would be Christian Bale, who had just finished The Machinist before Batman Begins. Compared to those two, Gadot is pretty much right there.

  • Anonymous

    Honestly, I wish they’d use the Justice Lords version of Wonder Woman for the costume. Also, since in the current comics, Diana is a child of Zeus, she doesn’t need to be bulked. I’d rather see a Diana with real muscle tone, rather than bulk.

  • http://pontoonification.blogspot.com/ AverageDrafter

    I have mixed feelings on Snyder in general, and I really did not like
    MoS very much. Hulk pretty much sums up my dislike for the film, with
    the additional complaint on needlessly adding useless lore that did
    nothing for the story, characters, or anything else but waste time and
    complicate a mythology that stands as one of the most elegant in all of literature, much less comics.

    At least when in the hands of writers who understand that Supes gets his power as a character from the simplicity of his origin and his willingness to do the right thing, even when it can be to his personal detriment.

    And, well lets just say that his portrayal of women hasn’t been totally stellar outside of Dawn of the Dead, but I can look past Watchmen as being rooted in the source material and Sucker Punch as a misguided but sincere attempt to co-opt sex’n'violence female fetish symbols that unfortunately only added to the body of work it was attempting to subvert.

    What gives me hope is how he has treated his female characters in Man of Steel. From Ma Kent’s amazing moments that provided Clark with the clarity that helped him grow into his powers (the less said about Pa the better), to Lois actually being a, ya know, competent and even amazingly resourceful investigator, and especially the utterly amazing Faora, who did the impossible and made me all but forget about boyhood crush Ursa – Man of Steel got one thing right, their women are as bad ass as they are supposed to be.

  • http://thescienceofobsession.tumblr.com/ R.O.U.S.

    How about the fact that they’re asking an actress to comment on the body type of another actress?! File under: things that are not cool, Hollywood, not cool.

  • Darth Amethystos

    Am I the only person who was a little disgusted by the comment, “I still hadn’t gotten my waist back” ??? She was freakin’ TEENY in MoS as it was. Gawd, I need a pint of ice cream now.

  • Matt Pattavina

    I’m not as upset about her body type as her age. I never pictured Wonder Woman as some 20 something, unless they are doing like an origins which would be a sin because Wonder Woman deserves her own movie for something like that.

  • http://pontoonification.blogspot.com/ AverageDrafter

    I think it more of having been subjected to the fact that, as an actress, she is judged first and foremost on her appearance, and they even at her level she knows the score (and has probably heard numerous times that she needs to get back into shape).

    Speculation of course, but not totally without merit.

  • http://pontoonification.blogspot.com/ AverageDrafter

    Aren’t the amazons ageless? It seems that “around 30″ is the right age for comic book immortals/slowed agers (Hemsworth, Cavill, Evans, Johansson) and she’s currently 28…

  • Matt Pattavina

    In my mind an Amazon woman does not appear to be a 18 year old girl, which she kind of looks like. Elves are ageless but I think Cate Blanchett is the perfect age look for that type of thing. I think they were going for sex appeal in the casting, not to say anything bad about her acting, I don’t know too much about it. I saw Fast and Furious movies, but that is hardly a measure of someone’s talent.

  • Dan Griffin

    I’m pretty sure Gadot could kick any man ass in real life considering she trained with the Israel military. So she should be a great Wonder Woman.

  • Dan Griffin

    I’m pretty sure Gadot could kick any man ass in real life considering she trained with the Israel military. So she should be a great Wonder Woman.

  • Anonymous

    Henry Cavill was a fairly unknown actor/model when he was cast as Superman, and there were more than a few “who the eff is Henry Cavill?” articles posted on the internet in response to his casting. And both Gal Gadot and Henry Cavill have been modeling since 2008 so it is unfair to drop the label of ‘model’ on Gadot and not also Cavill.

    As for Adams as Lois Lane, I thought she did a great job. When people think of Lois Lane, her looks are the last thing that come to mind. You think of someone smart, tenacious, brave, curious, and a little reckless. If Adams’ red hair or round face turned you off to the character then I think you’re watching the movie for the wrong reasons.

    And for people worried about Gadot’s figure, I would suggest looking up Antje Trauer’s modeling photos, then looking at Trauer as Faora in Man of Steel for evidence of what a good workout routine can do for a ‘model body.’

  • Anonymous

    I’d be surprised if they went for bulk over toned. I imagine that Gadot will look more like a fitness trainer than a bodybuilder by the time she dons the WW outfit.

  • Anonymous

    But that’s not what he did with Cavill, Shannon, or Trauer for Man of Steel, so there is direct evidence that Snyder wouldn’t want a waif as WW.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt considering he did a good job of portraying Lois Lane as confident and competent, not some clueless woman who can’t make the connection when the huge guy next to her at the Daily Planet disappears every time Superman appears.

  • Janelle S

    I only know Gadot from the Fast franchise, and to me, she appears older than 18. I haven’t looked up her age yet, but I’d guess about 24-26.
    (I looked it up. She’s 28.)

  • MeatyStakes

    That’s the thing with me.

    It’s not that Gadot got cast as WW

    is that Snyder cast Gadot as WW.

    And looking at his body of work, I just really have doubts.

  • frodobatmanvader

    Love that costume. Heck, I love Nebezial’s artwork! His Ninja Turtles Portraits are especially good.

  • Anonymous

    You know, it’s off topic so I’m not going to get into it here but that’s such an off-base and bothersome comment about Lois Lane’s history. I know it’s really become popular to joke that she was “clueless” about Superman but the reailty is that it’s just not even remotely true if you actually know the history of Superman. It’s an unfair, sexist brand that people love to throw out that is not only refuted over and over again by decades of canon and source material to the point that it actually grates to see it continually misrepresented. I will agree with you that Lois was portrayed well in Man of Steel. But that she was “clueless” before is one of the biggest, sexist lies in comics history perpetuated for decades when the real truth is that for 75 years she was often the ONLY PERSON who consistently suspected and knew the truth out of the entire world. But it’s off topic.

  • Anonymous

    Are you shocked? Last week, they askedher if she wanted a love triangle with Superman and Wonder Woman. Adams has been asked tons of pretty stupid and offensive questions about this project so far. Luckily, she’s class and has deflected them all with grace.

  • Anonymous

    The only thing that is disgusting is that when Amy was cast there ::were:: men saying she was “chubby” on message boards because she had just had a baby. Adams is unfortunately held to a standard of near perfection and I’m sure she’s well aware of it. The positive thing is that she focused on the character she was playing and turned it around to remember that Lois is about intellect/career so she could do her job.

  • Anonymous

    Let’s put aside the fact that Amy ADams bares a pretty strong resemblance to Noel Neill who played Lois Lane in the 50′s as a redhead to an entire generation of people. Let’s also put aside that she looks a ton like the Lois in the comics in the early 90′s around the Death and Return era. Let’s put aside the fact that Lois Lane has been drawn with literally every hair color at this point. She’s also been a Black woman (the musical) and an Indian woman.
    The point being made here is that Lois Lane is not defined by her looks. She is defined by her brains, her job and the connection she shares with Superman. How effing refreshing. A female character NOT defined by her looks.

    Goyer’s script was the weakest thing about MOS but ADams, in what she was given to do was spot on in terms of who Lois is. Incredibly brave? At times foolishly so? Check. Willng to risk her life for the truth? Check. Willing to reach out her hand to a virtual stranger who was “othered” and treat him with dignity as opposed to viewing him as someone to fear? Check. Committed to doing what was right? Check. Sounds like Lois Lane to me. I’m so tired of people putting women in these narrow “looks” boxes. Any woman should be able to imagine they are Lois Lane. That’s the point.

  • Aashyma Never Would

    My brother tried to cheer me up by suggesting she might have an after credits scene that’ll lead to her own movie, as opposed to actually sharing the screen with Bruce and Clark.

  • Anonymous

    We are not talking real life. We are talking Wonder Woman, one of the few women who might be stronger than Superman. Just sayin’.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Two of those were men, so they aren’t really what I’m talking about (of course you buff the men up in a male power fantasy). In Trauer’s case, she was a villain. Which isn’t to say that a villain can’t be sexy, but just that if Snyder is working on the role of an iconic (and, let’s face it, frequently depicted as sexualized) female hero (who wears much less)…I just see him wanting to go “sexy” with her, and keeping her all SuckerPunch waif-like.

    If he doesn’t, aces. I’m not really shouting out how much this casting sucks because I don’t know much about it yet. But I understand the trepidation folks have (and I emphatically think Wonder Woman shouldn’t be in an already-pretty-full-of-new-things movie anyway. I think she should get her own). I just won’t be a bit surprised if she doesn’t look too muscle-bound, because men wouldn’t find that hot or whatever.

  • Anonymous

    I couldn’t disagree with you strong enough. Not only was Lois clueless, so were her colleagues. To claim that it’s sexist to point this out is silly. The writers had to bend over backwards trying to come up with plausible reasons why Lois couldn’t put two and two together. Maybe it bothers you that an iconic female journalist was often presented as missing the biggest, most obvious truth in the DC universe – and I wouldn’t blame you if that were the case – but that doesn’t change the fact that she was in the dark for quite some time. Sexist would be if they made it appear that her cluelessness was due to her gender.

  • Anonymous

    I think Trauer is the perfect example for why we should have a little more faith in Snyder’s vision for WW. Trauer is a gorgeous actress and he could have portrayed her as eye candy. But not only did he not do that, he specifically had her transform her body to be more warrior-like – even though she was completely covered by a body suit and armor for the entire run time of the movie. I haven’t heard anything from him (or Goyer or Nolan) that would suggest they would try to ‘sex up’ WW so I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt.

    My biggest concern is, like you, I think this movie is over-packed with characters. Superman, Ma Kent, Lois Lane, Perry White, Lex Luthor, Nightwing?, Batman, Wonder Woman, and possibly more cameos sounds like an overload. I’m not sure how they’re handling WW’s introduction, but it seems unnecessary unless they are rushing to get all the pieces in place for that Justice League movie we all know they covet.

  • Brett W

    300 was an adaptation… of a Frank Miller book. You can hardly blame Snyder for the source material. And Re: female characters, did you not see MOS? Because it had the second best Lois Lane I’ve ever seen and Faora was awesome.

  • Brett W

    Like he did with Antje Traue for Faora? …Oh wait.

    http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/jBQOu00SUEM/maxresdefault.jpg

  • Laura Truxillo

    I was thinking more like the cast of Sucker Punch.

    Having a female villain buff up is a different ballgame. There’s often (especially, but certainly not exclusively, from guys) a kneejerk negative reaction to seeing a woman with serious biceps. Sometimes even just subconsciously. If you’ve got a female villain, it’s just one more cue to the audience that she’s Wrong and a bit monstrous.

    Which isn’t saying that’s what he was deliberately going for so much as that it might have been a reason he was okay with letter her buff up. But it’s a different ballgame for a hero or a villain. We’ll see when we see, I suppose, but his track record is more skewed towards waif-fu than towards Amazonian ladies.

  • Laura Truxillo

    “he specifically had her transform her body to be more warrior-like”

    And that is pretty cool. Especially the practical wear. But it is still a different thing for a hero or a villain. It’s oddly more acceptable that a villainous woman be physically warrior-like because it’s something that goes against “wholesome” expectations, which subconsciously still hang around. It’s easier to show her as monstrous and Wrong.

    Which doesn’t mean it’s the reason he did it. Just that one example of a villain with more waif-like examples of his protags isn’t quelling.

    I will admit to just not having a lot of faith in TPTB not to sex WW up right now. Not necessarily Snyder, but just…I dunno, it’s been that kind of year or three.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I dunno, I always figured that if EVERYONE in the DC universe was in the dark about it (or at least most people), then it was something that, in-universe, was actually pretty hard to figure out. Sort of like how in an old movie, we can see the strings keeping something aloft, but the characters in the movie can’t.

    That said, I don’t see why it would give Snyder the benefit of the doubt on that basis–that is, because he made Lois competent. Lois has been a competent and capable person in the comics for the past quite-a-while-now. He would have had to be almost exclusively familiar with the Silver Age/pop culture joke concept of Lois to have made her “clueless.” It would be like someone making a Justice League movie and having Aquaman’s whole schtick be about how useless and talks-to-fish he is. It’s a joke easily accessible to even people who don’t read comics, and once upon a time it was mostly true, but the person putting the character on the big screen should probably be more familiar with it than that.

  • Mark Matson

    Sucker Punch was two levels of imagined fantasy. In “reality”, all the woman in that movie were in a mental institution, not action heros.

  • Scourge626

    Lois in that movie was written poorly. She was amazing when she first appeared on screen so we know she can act the part and Snyder has the ability to write a good Lois. But when she met Clark she did like everyone else in the movie did and started harping about how important he is and ditched any personality they had built up. Faora was badass, but she was one note and lacked any depth outside of being a soldier/warrior. Snyder sucks at writing a female character.

  • Brett W

    Really I think that kneejerk reaction only comes into play when the woman’s musculature veers into the realm of the ridiculous. Like when it’s plainly obvious that she’s using steroids. But the musculature of an athlete, an Olympian even, is quite aesthetically pleasing and I defy anyone to say otherwise.

  • Kryptoknight

    The problem is not, I think, that most are questioning Gadot’s ability to play the role. We can’t know that til the movie hits. The problem is they are making the part a hard sell by putting a very slim, slightly built woman into a role that calls for someone who should look powerful. Gadot may have the height (I think she’s about 6 ft.) but she has practically the opposite build one would expect of Wonder Woman. (I’m not just referring to bust size either, as I know some do. I couldn’t care less about that, few could match WW in that regard.) She just does not have a build that projects power and strength. Personally I think they should look the female MMA market. Gina Carano is a former MMA fighter turned actress, I think I could buy her in the role. Someone with a build like hers or Cat Zingano’s is what I would imagine for WW..

  • Kryptoknight

    I love Nebezial’s version of WW. I believe it is my favorite interpretation of the character. I daily wish that DC would sign him on to do her art.

  • Anonymous

    I’m afraid this is not a logical stance to take.

    People are not “Body shaming” Gadot. Far from it. They are disgusted with Hollywood’s shaming of any body type other than Gadot’s. They are tired of nothing but slim supermodel after slim supermodel, even for roles when an athletic build is more appropriate. Gadot could very well mature into a fine actor, and there’s no shortage of parts where she would be extremely well suited. But for the most famous fictional “Amazon” in modern media, she’s just not physically suited to the part.

    Saying she’s being shamed when it’s women of other body types that have a hard time getting parts in Hollywood… that’s extremely unfair.

  • Brett W

    So the supporting characters weren’t developed as much as the main character, who was the focus of the film? Wow. Shocking.

  • Anonymous

    The reason I point out Lois (and to a lesser extent, The Daily Planet staff) is because they work with Clark. So being in his presence as much as they are, and for Lois especially, being in Superman’s presence as much as she is, it starts to stretch the bounds of believability, which is why writers had to come up with increasingly implausible reasons as to why Lois hadn’t been able to put two and two together. I wouldn’t hold people who don’t know Clark and don’t work with him to the same standards as a Lois, Jimmy, and Perry White who work with Clark and who see Clark (and his physique) close up everyday.

    You could say the same thing about the Daily Bugle staff and Spiderman. Young Peter shows up with little to no journalism experience, is the only person capable of getting shots of Spiderman – great close-up shots at that – and he happens to be the same build as Spiderman. And not only that but J Jonah Jameson’s obsession is to unmask Spidey but he could never put it all together? Hell, you can even mention Comm. Gordon and Batman. Gordon’s a detective who couldn’t figure out that the guy whose parents were murdered and who happens to be the richest person in Gotham and has the body of a tank isn’t the guy with all the expensive gadgets running around town puching crime in the face?

    It just speaks to the tricky circumstances these writers put their characters in and the crazy solutions they had to employ to maintain these secret identities for decades – the consequence being that some of these characters come off looking clueless (especially when their job entails uncovering big secrets).

    What Snyder did that was so great was that he portrayed Lois as not only competent, but proactive without being obsessively or recklessly so (ala Lois in Superman 2 where she throws herself over Niagara Falls). Donner and company saw the ridiculousness of Lois not being able to figure it out and they played it up (and it works because those films are lighter, funnier, and more playful). Snyder went in a different direction, which was one much more appropriate for the world Nolan, Goyer, and he created. Now we don’t have to sit and watch Lois be clueless about the 6’2 230lb guy working next to her that happens to look just like the 6’2” 230 guy who flies around in a red cape. It gives us a different, more exciting dynamic because now she’s more of an ally, and can be more proactive in helping Superman, which I think is a better characterization and use of a strong, professional woman like Lois Lane.

  • Brett W

    As far as I could ever tell, *everyone* is clueless about Superman’s identity. Even the World’s Greatest Detective has to take a second look before he can see past those magical glasses.

  • Anonymous

    I understand, we’ve been burned way too many times when it comes to depictions of female characters. And if Wonder Woman were in the hands of most Hollywood action directors I would be more concerned. But, unlike many people, who tend not to like Snyder for various reasons, I think he’s done a fantastic job with his female characters over the years. There’s Sarah Polley’s character in Dawn of the Dead. Not only was she badass, but she was three-dimensional. She wasn’t the ice-cold warrior chick, or the helpless damsel. She was a relatable and believable in those extraordinary circumstances. Queen Gorgo in 300 was great because in a movie dripping with testosterone she stood out because of her inner strength. She wasn’t sexed up, she was supportive of her husband and her nation without being diminished to the cliched pining wife. She was proactive in winning support for the efforts of the 300. I enjoyed his portrayal of the Jupiters in Watchmen. Some have expressed a dislike for the way those characters have been portrayed, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what it is they dislike. I tend to believe that their issues are more with the source material than the adaptation.

    Sucker Punch (which requires its own paragraph) is another thing altogether. The movie failed, but not because Snyder was dimishing his female characters. It failed (on a script/story level) because Snyder was trying to do something way more ambitious than he was capable of pulling off at the time. He was essentially trying to do a female empowerment Inception – a movie that worked on several levels and made statements about/subverted the ideas of female empowerment, sisterhood, navagating a patriarchal society, the male gaze, etc. But Snyder as a writer is no Nolan, and he couldn’t pull that script together. So what was meant to be (on one level) a great examination/takedown of Hollywood and its treatment of female characters ended up looking like what he was trying to subvert. I give him all the credit in the world for having the courage to attempt it, he just didn’t pull it off. I’m surprised so many people give him so much shit for an honest effort at an all-female led action film that was trying to get people to think about Hollywood and women.

  • Anonymous

    I still have fond memories of “Gab’s Abs” discussions and humor of those years. ROC was incredibly fit and toned. She used to teach aerobics, did rock climbing, kickboxing, martial arts and yoga during the Xena years (and prior to her first baby). I’m sure she could take on just about everyone in the cast, lol.

  • Anonymous

    She looks just fine in that photo of Lois. She doesn’t look like comic book women because their proportions are physically impossible, not because she’s just had a baby.

  • Anonymous

    Silk Spectre was basically the same as she was in the comic. Any issues regarding her character (and her mother’s characterization) are Alan Moore’s more than Snyder’s.

  • KryptoBunny

    Honestly, his love of a blatantly sexist writer like Frank Miller as indicative of a problem. If someone reads FM and can’t see immediately that he has issues with women, they probably either have them too, just don’t care, or have read too much Noir (I actually give Miller half a pass on Sin City since it’s so clearly in-genre). I’m curious about your first best Lois, though! I loved Teri Hatcher on Lois & Clark most, myself.

  • KryptoBunny

    Ugh, yes! I thought the same thing when I read that. I hope she knows she never needs to make disparaging remarks about her body like that — the way show business makes women feel about themselves is sick.

  • KryptoBunny

    I agree. It’s rather like conversations about bigotry towards white people in America. It happens, surely, and bigotry is bad, certainly. It’s not that the conversation is meaningless, it’s just… quite low on the list of priorities.

  • KryptoBunny

    She doesn’t look “womanly”.

  • KryptoBunny

    I do think some of her sexual power was subverted, but Alan Moore isn’t a great writer of women, I agree.

  • Anonymous

    I have to agree. The primary objections I’ve seen isn’t that she isn’t pretty enough (she’s quite attractive IMO), but rather, that she doesn’t fit the Amazonian body shape you’d think of for, well, an Amazonian. From the mythical kingdom of Amazon. And who is a lifetime warrior blessed by the gods.

    And I get that objection. I’m willing to wait and see how this turns out mind you, but still, I understand the objection of “shouldn’t she have more visible muscle?”

  • Scourge626

    Lois is Clark’s love interest, acts a bit like his moral compass, keeps him grounded and from going too far, and does much more for him. She’s an important character in the Superman series as she it vital to Superman’s overall development. But she is none of that in this movie except his love interest and that was forced at the end of the movie. She can develop into that in later movies (if they stopped focusing on the Justice League), but in this one there was nothing to her after she met Clark and learned he was an alien. She had sass and a go get em attitude when she first came on screen but once she was saved by Clark her personality died. Actually, everyone was like that. No one had any real depth to them once they started realizing just how important he was. The only ones who seemed not to do that were the bad guys (to a degree, Zod still did this) and his mother. And despite also being a huge influence in Clark’s life she hardly gets any screen time either. Sure the main character is supposed to be important, but that doesn’t mean that the other characters are just supposed to stand in awe of his/her greatness.

  • Brett W

    The fact that Snyder was hired to adapt one Frank Miller adaptation does not logically imply that Zack Snyder “loves” Frank Miller. And my first best Lois is DCAU Lois (Superman Animated, Justice League, etc.). Of course, my first best everything is the DCAU version.

  • Brett W

    Well, that furthers my point. You might be able to make an argument that Snyder mishandles his supporting cast, but you can’t claim he is biased against its female elements when- in your own words- all of them were treated exactly the same way.

    Also, everyone except the villains stands awestruck at Superman’s appearance? Isn’t that pretty much what always happens when he shows up?

  • Scourge626

    Sucker Punch, all the girls were one dimensional, 300 (another movie based off a comic) the wife lacked any real presence despite being a queen, and in Man of Steel Lois Lane (one of the most strong willed, well written, influential women in comics) fell in love with Superman just because he saved her life a couple of times. Now he’s supposed to be handling the origin and story of Wonder Woman? Yeah, I don’t see this turning out well.

  • Brett W

    As far as I can tell *everyone* in Sucker Punch was one dimensional. And see others’ comments about what that film was intended to be, etc. I don’t know much about it. As for 300, it’s an adaptation. Snyder did not invent the characters. And since it’s an adaptation of Frank Miller’s work, whatever gripes you have about the queen (wasn’t she a secondary character anyway?) were probably in the source material to begin with, i.e., not Snyder’s fault. And I’ve already given my opinion on Lois and the way he handled her. In short, I thought it was just fine and not terribly different from any other Lois I’ve ever seen except for the secret identity thing. As for Wonder Woman, we only know that she’s appearing, not how much or what her role will be. But it’s likely that the film won’t be her origin and it certainly won’t be “her story”. So whether Snyder can tell “her story” is a secondary if not somewhat irrelevant concern. What matters is what will be her relevance to the plot at hand… which we don’t know. Neither do we have any solid information from which to draw educated guesses.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I think…that’s a nice thought, but a bit naive. I’m not sure if you’ve just never heard people say things, or if, I dunno, maybe being a guy who didn’t have to worry about this stuff, you just didn’t notice it when people did say things, but no. The kneejerk reaction comes out with Olympians and other muscular women very often. Heck, I was watching one of the Terminator movies with my Dad the other day and he said he’d liked the actress until she got all buff and gross. The actress in question had…slightly more defined biceps than Gadot does. That was about it.

    It could just be that I’m hyper-aware of these kinds of statements and attitudes. When I was a teenager, I did martial arts, and rather than toning nicely, I buffed up, especially around the shoulders/arms. It was enough to feel very “unpretty” (especially since it meant most women’s shirts didn’t fit me unless I got a size or two too big for my frame). But no, the kneejerk reaction of disgust happens almost any time a women looks “too buff” and there’s a very nebulous gray definition of what “too buff” is. It certainly doesn’t wait for their musculature to be “ridiculous.”

    Come on, just think of all the comments the women of the WNBA get about their appearance (or tennis players–hah, that one looks masculine.). That’s just one group of athletes.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Yes, I saw it too. Your point is what?

  • Brett W

    I recognize that as an “uninitiated” hetero male, I’m something of an outsider in a feminist space, so I’ll try to to phrase this as unoffensively as possible and in return I hope you will indulge me.

    I think female athletes are hot. There is a point where it does become unappealing and I’ll spare you the details of where exactly that line is. It tends to zigzag a bit and usually has more to do with the face than the body itself. Of course, all human faces look strange once body fat % drops below a certain level. But on the whole my tastes seem to be more inclusive than paradigm you’re describing. For example, I consider Serena Williams to be as close to physical perfection as a mortal woman can get. Perhaps this is why when you talk about the kneejerk negative reaction to athletic women I’m over here scratching my head?

  • Laura Truxillo

    It’s fine that you think female athletes are hot. Really it is. And hey, Serena Williams is one heckuvan athlete. That’s you. Because honestly? I still hear people talking about how she’s “too butch” or whatever.

    Many people do find female athletes to be hot. But as a culture, we’ve still got a lot of hold-over from the days where “unlady-like” was one of the worst insults you could throw a woman’s way without actually swearing. Now we have action chicks, but the idea is still to be strong without being/looking “too” strong. Again, I bring up the WNBA, and have to ask–if you’ve ever talked about them or hear/seen comments on their appearance, do the positive comments really outweigh the negative ones? Because if they do, it must be a particularly nice crowd you’re hanging out with.

    You can find a body type appealing and still be aware that you’re not in the norm. As a kid I crushed on David Krumholtz and Rick Moranis, but I know that when a movie is casting its Leading Attractive Action Hero, they won’t be it, because short, nebbish-y dudes don’t play that, because they don’t have as wide a fanservice appeal as Channing Tatum (whose appeal, for the life of me, I cannot figure out).

    Which is…somewhat besides the point.

    My point is more that muscular women, even “reasonably” (that is, not on steroids) muscular women are viewed as “unlady-like” and not in the same appealing way that a sultry dame is “unlady-like.” They’re viewed as Doing Gender Wrong, either consciously or subconsciously, and they get called gross or disgusting with a certain frequency. Your specific tastes aren’t so much the issue. It’s the culture at large and definitely the culture perceived by the studios that dictate What Is Acceptable For Our Attractive Leads.

  • Brett W

    And you’re certain it’s their body types that’s being reacted against and not their faces? Because, again, human faces can look rather odd when body fat drops below a certain point. The effect may be exaggerated for females since women tend to have a higher “normal” body fat percentage than men.

  • KryptoBunny

    That’s a pretty excellent Lois choice! And… yeah, a good first best everything choice, as you said. I wish more of the DCU would take a few cues from the cartoons.

    I understand that making a movie based on a Frank Miller book isn’t equivalent to Snyder <3 Miller, I seem to recall Snyder expressing a lot of affection for Miller on press junkets for 300, but that's admittedly biased info. Miller seems to be giving a lot of advice on all this Batman/Superman business though. I honestly feel that Frank Miller is an insupportably misogynistic writer, so perhaps I'm having a bit of knee-jerk reaction.

  • Brett W

    Well yeah of course the promotional material is going to make it seem that way. Otherwise the marketers would be failing harder than usual. xD But as far as this movie goes, I don’t get the impression that Miller is giving “a lot of advice”. They explicitly stated that they’re not adapting any of his stories and while there were reports a while back that Snyder had a sit-down with Miller, I can’t find any solid sources to confirm that’s actually *true*. As far as I can tell, Miller has no connection to the project.

  • Picture Pages

    Actually, if you are referencing Donner as “Lighter & Funnier” you may be mistaking him for Richard Lester. I just saw the Richard Donner cut of Superman II and yes there was some humor–but it was sooooo much darker or serious than RL’s version. It was true to the comic book, as far as most of the lore and storyline. If you haven’t seen it you should. It’s funny cause it shares alot with MOS.

  • Anonymous

    Certainly Lester had a different sensibility than Donner, but they both included a lot of humor in their contributions (not to leave out the screenwriters). Some of it was broad, some subtler (there was more than a little satire throughout the Superman series). Gene Hackman was allowed to completely chew the scenery (to great effect). Some of the scenarios were out of this world.

    But it all worked because the film was much more fantastical at its core than the current crop of DC films. Snyder, Goyer, and Nolan seem to be taking the approach that they will not make any winking references to the idiosyncracies of the Superman comics. I wouldn’t go as far as to say MoS is “deadly serious” but it’s only a step or two away. And I wouldn’t necessarily call Donner’s cut dark or serious, rather more earnest and heartfelt in its exploration of Superman as Christ. I couldn’t imagine half the scenarios from Superman 2 in MoS. I do agree there are similar undertones in Superman 2 and MoS – some having to do with the similar narrative and some having to do with a similar exploration of Superman as Christ-figure.

  • Anonymous

    Greg, you’re wrong. You’re just wrong and uninformed. it’s the biggest lie in history that Lois didn’t know who Clark was. Go back and actually read the Golden Age comics. She was the ONLY person who consistently, over and over again KNEW who he was. Who consistently put it together. Then the Silver AGe came along and women were shoved back into their traditional roles after being allowed in the work force during World War 2 and this was reflected in the comicbook verse. But it’s a lie that she was clueless. It’s the opposite. She was the ONLY ONE he consistently could not fool. He could fool the entire world and there is a suspension of disbelief required there but he couldn’t fool her. There are actual essays that have been published about this and they are very informative and very good. Please read up because you are misinformed on the actual history.

  • Anonymous

    Everyone is clueless EXCEPT her. That’s the funny part. She is the only one who consistently figures it out.

  • Anonymous

    Greg, your knowledge of Superman is really, really incorrect. This dynamic you are talking about it not only NOW new but it’s been in place in some capacity since the debut of the characters since the Golden Age. You are very off-base. I really suggest that you read up on the history of these characters because you are consistently presenting really insulting, incorrect information here.

  • Anonymous

    Snyder didn’t write the film. David Goyer wrote the film. I didn’t think Lois was written poorly but I did think the entire second half of the film sacrificed any and all characterization for things blowing up and it hurt the film.

  • Anonymous

    That’s actually a very unfair reading of what happened in Man of Steel. First of all, since when did Lois fall in love with Clark? They shared one kiss in the heat of the moment after surviving uncertain death. I never heard her say she loved him. Attracted to him? Sure. Intrigued? Sure. But there was no love. You also forget that she spent a significant period of time tracking him across the world and interviewing all the people he had saved. She learned first hand that he had been a “guardian angel” for people all his life and taken no credit nor asked for anything in return. She extended her hand to him when he was most isolated and alone and he thanked her for being there for him and being someone he could depend on. The attraction makes perfect sense to me. Frankly, I think people are imposing too much on Superman/Lois in Man of Steel because the nature of the love story in this case is so iconic and so important to people. I agree that the last 1/3 of Man of Steel was poorly done with too much action and little to no characterization for ANYONE. But you shouldn’t impose things on the film that were not in the narrative.

  • Brett W

    You’re right. I was skeptical, but I did a bit of digging and it turns out you’re correct. This was true, in the Golden Age as you say. And it’s an interesting dynamic. Of course, Lois Lane could never *prove* Clark was Superman, but debating whether or not that counts as “knowing” would be splitting hairs. I was going to counter with the objection that it’s ridiculous that Lois knew from the start while Clark’s disguise stumped the greatest detective on earth… except it turns out that the first time Batman and Superman ever met, they figured out each other’s identities instantly. Huh. I guess the “magical glasses” thing must have started in the Silver Age.

    That said, if Batman can’t deduce Superman’s identity in Man of Steel 2, there will be facepalms.

  • Anonymous

    Mary, the only times Lois ever found out Superman’s secret identity was when he revealed it to her himself – usually after Clark and Lois became engaged. And, of course, DC would always retcon the books in order to reset the dynamic of Lois not knowing. What you are referring to as Lois knowing Superman’s alter ego was in fact her suspecting but never being able to confirm or prove it despite her many attempts to do so; in fact, Superman/Clark was able to fool her time and again whenever she got suspicious. Lex Luthor, too, suspected over the years but wasn’t able to prove it.

    I’m not sure why you characterize this dynamic as some big lie when it’s the very dynamic that the book has always relied on (ever since the original Golden Age books) – and the main reason the books keep getting ret-conned (to re-establish this dynamic).

  • Scourge626

    Most of the time, directors come up with the basic layout of the story (what happens when, how much time is spent developing this, etc.) and leave the finer details to the writers. There are those who do both. Even if he didn’t write the screenplay, it was his idea to sacrifice many of his characters for the action oriented second half and the development of Clark in the first half (this is understandable but when coupled with how the second half plays out there is no time for anyone).

  • Scourge626

    I’m paraphrasing, but at the end of the movie Lois says: “You know what they say: After the first kiss, it all goes down hill from here.” To which Superman replies: “That only applies to humans.” They are basically saying they are in a relationship. And I agree, there was no love between the two and that’s what makes the movie poorly written. But that’s how Hollywood does a lot of love stories. See just about any scary or action pact movie and the female and male lead fall in love with each other simply because they saved each others lives and grew dependent on each other in a dire situation. Which is what kinda happened in this movie. However, there will be nothing else outside of that.

  • Anonymous

    No, she is definitely not that tall (only 5′ 9″), but, yes, she is too thin. Way too thin. Which *still* wouldn’t bother me (because she *could* bulk up – see before/after pictures of Chris Hemsworth for proof that this is entirely possible). What concerns ME is the instant pushback from the director, who immediately started talking about a “new strong look”, where she could be thin, instead of muscular. I don’t care who thinks I am nitpicking, or “body shaming”; I will *not* watch this movie if she doesn’t look right. It should NOT be that hard to find a woman who ISN’T a stick figure for this role!