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BAD IDEAS FROM SMART PEOPLE

TV Tropes Deletes Every Rape Trope; Geek Feminism Wiki steps in


Up until a week ago, TV Tropes had a very handy trope index called Rape Tropes. (Note: all TVT rape trope pages in this article link, ironically, to Google caches.) This page also linked to other iterations of rape tropes in popular culture such as Rape as Backstory, Rape and Switch, Rape as Drama, Rape as Redemption, and other rape tropes common in the pop culture idiom.

Today when you access any of these pages, you’re informed, “We do not want a page on this topic. It does not meet our content policy.”

Recently on the discussion thread for combining the “Victim falls for Rapist” trope with the “Rape as Stockholm Syndrome” trope under the standard Rape Is Love cliche, Wiki owner and admin Fast Eddie explained that all tropes related to rape had been wiped off the site because it was getting the site “in trouble with Google.”

Apparently that meant any trope containing the word “rape” had to go.

This problem wasn’t a new one; in January, the Rape Trope index was locked due to Google threatening to block the site’s ad revenue for explicit content. This led to complaints about vanishing hentai tropes, with some users commenting that “creepy content and creepy examples” needed to go, and others questioning whether “creepy content” applied to rape tropes. At that point a user-led effort was made to rename all of the Rape Tropes so that they sounded less rapey (seriously), which rapidly turned into an admin mandate to go through all the renamed tropes and excise all creepiness.

But despite this frantic renaming/excision, either Google brought down the content policy hammer or the admins simply decided it wasn’t a battle worth fighting. When Fast Eddie noted the deletion of the trope page, he added, “There is no explanation needed beyond the fact that the topic is a pain in the ass to keep clean and it endangers the wiki’s revenues. We just won’t have articles about rape. Super easy. No big loss.”

Well. Except that tropes where characters, especially women, are forced or coerced into doing things without their consent are so numerous that TV Tropes hasn’t effectively gotten rid of them all, and probably couldn’t even if they tried. Similar tropes pop up all over the site, and clicking on a few reveals that the site is now a mish-mash of available content warring with the bahleeted presence of any trope that contained the unwanted word “rape.” So Fate Worse Than Death, And Now You Must Marry Me, Old Man Marrying a Child, and Droit du Signeur are still content-approved, but drastically varied tropes like Rape as Comedy, Mind Rape, and Rape, Pillage, and Burn are all gone for good.

So was Fast Eddie being sarcastic when he described the ousting of an enormous chunk of content as “no big loss”? It’s tough to tell, given what seems to be his blasé attitude about clearing out the contents of his archive to “keep the advertisers on board.” But surely Fast Eddie must be aware that TV Tropes isn’t just a repository of fan clichés and geek trivia. The categorization of tropes that hurt, marginalize, and perpetuate victims of rape and rape culture—particularly women—is incredibly important in a cultural moment where debate about sexist tropes is greater than it ever has been. It’s impossible to engage in intelligent debates about issues like sexism in video games or rape tropes in YA fantasy without having clear, accessible examples of what those harmful tropes look like. Two such examples of this kind of categorization and discussion are Anita Sarkeesian‘s Tropes Vs Women and Gail Simone‘s groundbreaking website Women in Refrigerators, both of which have helped proliferate awareness and discussion of typical tropes like “Rape is Love” and “Fridging.” These tropes are still to be found on the TV Tropes website, but now all the context of being linked to the word “rape” (hi, Google!) and rape culture is missing. Clicking on links around the “Stuffed into the Fridge” page now takes you to page after page of “We do not want a page on this topic,” rendering all but useless TV Tropes’ infamously vast interlinking of tropes and contextual understanding of how those tropes operate in our culture.

If you’re thinking this ineffectual censorship just highlights how ridiculous and dangerous the pressure to rid our social vocabularies of potentially “creepy” words like “rape” and, oh, “vagina“, have become, you’re not alone. Yesterday morning, Geek Feminism stepped in with a clever announcement: since TV Tropes’ content and the GF Wiki’s content are both licensed under the same Creative Commons license, the content can be relocated. So far only one trope, Rape as Backstory, has been relocated, but perhaps if GF users hurry they can revive all of the deleted TV Tropes pages.

It might be too much to ask for cooperation in their efforts from the TV tropes admins, who seem to have adopted an attitude of “DNW” to the whole issue; but given the many recent controversies over rape-related tropes in pop culture and attempts to silence discussion about them, it’s undeniable that losing an enormous amount of content that adds visceral context to an ongoing and important discussion would be a Kiss of Death to TV Tropes’ integrity as an archive—not to mention the ongoing battle between Google ads and free speech on the internet.

(Top pic from And I Must Scream.)

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  • http://profile.yahoo.com/F6WDMXYFH6S5NTOYGNP6WPXGFA Sarah

    Great article! I understand where TV Tropes is coming from but those pages are just too gosh darn important to be erased forever! What’s really interesting here is Google considering an academic discussion of how rape is portrayed in the media to be ‘explicit content.’

  • http://www.facebook.com/1shewolf JoAnna Luffman

    I wonder if google’s problem came from seeing “rape” too many times in a site, pinging a program that spits out a porn or not porn response. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/amberlovescomics Elizabeth-Amber Delaney

    These admins/CMs can find & replace “rape” with sexual assault all they want; that doesn’t erase it. It still exists in life, in pop culture, in gaming and in literature. Call it what you want. Trying to make a new politically correct phrase is a waste of time. The laws have been changing words too to avoid certain words. There’s not “domestic violence” anymore as it’s been renamed. It’s ways for lawyers to advise their clients to get away with crime and sensitive content.

  • http://twitter.com/kcunning Katie Cunningham

    Seriously? My high school, back in the 90′s, was able to work the content filter so that sites talking ABOUT rape got through (so that teachers and students could get to vital resources), but sites PROMOTING rape were blocked. 

    A public school.

    In the 90′s.

    For the love of…

  • Aaron Kaplan

    Fantastic article, thanks for publicizing. It’s a shame that TVTropes doesn’t seem to understand its significance in the cultural milieu, or if it does then it doesn’t care; this is another example of discussions on rape culture being thrown under the bus. I’m glad that there can be a rescue for the content, but it’s not quite the same to have it farmed out to GFWiki, and although that’s a temporary fix, I don’t think the proper response is to say “Oh well, that’s the way the world works.”

    My big questions are these:
    1) Is there a way we can petition to Google to get the classification for the site changed, since it seems a bad idea (especially with all the political discussion about rape in the military and the violence against women acts) to have something flagged as “inappropriate” just because it discusses rape?
    2) What’s the best way we as readers can help to salvage the content, as a (hopefully) temporary fix?

  • http://www.youngaspiringwriter.blogspot.com/ Chihuahua Zero

    As a Troper, this is an interesting article to read.

    Unfortunately, we don’t know how much of the decisions are Google’s decision (since their ads provide the income the site needs in order to maintain its current state, and therefore we are subjected to their mercy), and how much are just percautions to prevent a “Third Google Incident”. (Cookie to whoever can guess what that phrase is based off of).

    But in any case, the last couple of months had been a little of a mess, not to mention there’s a lot of pressure on Fast Eddie, the moderators, and the volunteer Tropers.

  • Anonymous

    This sounds like something someone would genuinely put together as a game show.  ”And now it’s time to play… PORN OR NOT PORN!”

  • Kaarel Jakobson

    I am so disgusted with TV Tropes over this. At the end of the day, I can’t see it as anything else but Fast Eddie betraying the entire mission of TV Tropes – cataloguing storytelling devices – for advertising revenue. It’s a genuine case of selling out.

  • http://twitter.com/loopnotdefined loop_not_defined

    I was under the impression the problem was inappropriate user submitted content frequently uploaded to the relevant TV Tropes “rape” articles.  Fast Eddie himself stated just how much trouble keeping them “clean” has been.  Basically, seems like it’s because of the inappropriate content that Google decided to take action, not the articles themselves.

  • kieron George

    Even Mindrape! Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

  • Nick Gaston

    Wow! As a troper—well, *former* troper, in protest of the censorship drama that TV Tropes has been undergoing the last couple of months—it’s kind of nice to see that this upset someone else besides the small band of like-minded people who’d been grumbling about this already. Damn, maybe I should have alerted the press, earlier.

    And on a related note, and speaking of the Creative Commons licence relocation—some of those same anti-deletion tropers recently archived the complete listing of trope articles, including the deleted ones salvaged from various sources, and made them available as a torrent download. 
    Part of this was to gather material for a (so far) prospective censorship-free TV Tropes alternative site, should the TvT situation not improve, but the download is free for all to use for themselves. A little searching should be able to turn it up. (I’m not sure if it’d be “cool” for me to link to it here, directly.)

  • Anonymous

    I think Google is more to blame than TVTropes. I guarantee that if half the people who claim to be “disgusted with TVTropes” and their compliance to Google’s demands wouldn’t have the gall to do it any differently if they were in the same position, no matter what they claim or how surly they get in this comment box.

    That being said, I agree with this article here and that rape is too much of an important cultural issue to just be discarded like that. It’s like racism in old cartoons: censoring the racism is like denying it happened, which is worse than actually showing it.

    I also hope the people at Geek Feminism can manage to salvage these pages and this information.

  • Terence Ng

    ‘Now to just type “fossils” into the search engine. And now to just separate the fossil sites from the porn sites. “Tyrannosaurus”: fossil. “Babe-a-sore-ass”: porn. “A Symposium on the Pangea Theory of the Permian Extinctio–” Wow! That is some nasty porn!’ – American Dad

  • Joe Momma

    Censor a viable social discourse in order to protect superficial monetary gain… way to not be evil google. 

  • Terence Ng

    It shouldn’t be too difficult. Wayback Machine probably has a strong lock on TVTropes’ pages, so it’s just a matter of looking them up, copying, and reformatting.

  • http://twitter.com/Zagglezig Jake Somethinorother

    If they have any trouble finding the pages to relocate, the Wayback Machine (http://archive.org/web/web.php) over at the Internet Archives has it covered. Ex. the Mind Rape page (http://tinyurl.com/7b4f27g) and the Rape as Drama page (http://tinyurl.com/75prox6) are in there.

  • http://twitter.com/loopnotdefined loop_not_defined

    The internet was a lot simpler in the 90s, though…

  • Anonymous

    This is true.

  • http://twitter.com/loopnotdefined loop_not_defined

    Hosting isn’t free.  Can you imagine what the alternative is, especially if Google is the website’s primary source of revenue?  Think about it.  :

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Am I the only one who thinks the interwebs need to launch a major campaign to get this reinstated?  Why is this being silenced?  Rape tropes are some of the most common and frustrating ones out there.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1208921 Nikki Lincoln

    Ok Mary Sue, you’ve lost me here. I don’t understand how there can be two articles screaming outrage at a game for having a two second cut scene that half hints at rape – to which many demanding the developers remove the scene before the game is released because it makes people uncomfortable BUT then when a website removes the same (and let’s me honest, more extreme and detailed) content from it’s website because it makes people uncomfortable and causes their site to get blocked by filters it’s a huge outrage? It seems like no matter what people do, it’s wrong and there is going to be an angry post on the interwebs about it. I feel like if you’re going to get mad over these topics, you need to pick a side and stick to it or you start losing credibility. I know that the two articles have different authors but I think the site as a whole should send a consistent message. 

  • Anonymous

    So why isn’t there pressure being put on Google to fix their policies?

  • http://www.thedungeoncrawl.blogspot.com/ Sean Samonas

     The difference is that Tomb Raider is using the trope actively.

    TVTropes is more of a (while not very accredited) database and exists almost for referential purposes.  For example, if you were trying to do some research on how many different television shows have used rape in some form, tvtropes made it easy to discover the answer to that.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve been lurking at tvtropes for years, was just starting to cautiously make my first edits to a WMG page when I saw this.  Honestly?  The site lost respect from me.  The parts of the story you don’t like aren’t magicly erased just because you try to stop people from talking about them.  The conversations they spur on are magnificent Teaching Moments. 

    There have been several books and movies I avoided thanks to them showing up in the ‘Rape As Love’, ‘Rape as Drama’ ‘Rape as Redemption’ pages.  They were great warnings for people who want to avoid being triggered in public.

  • http://twitter.com/PrincessNervous Sarah N

    Why should the site have a consistent message? 
    Also there is a difference in a game featuring a rape scene and a page which lists examples of said scenes in media.

  • Terence Ng

    Um, I think you’re mistaken. I don’t see how those two issues are contrary to one another at all.

    Criticism of Tomb Raider’s rape content was BECAUSE it fills tired tropes of women’s victimization as some sort of necessity to becoming relatable, appreciated, authentic, or strong.

    TVTropes decided to suddenly remove their content, which catalogs evidence of those tropes’ existence.

    Are you confusing the trope for the documentation of the trope and vice versa? The content of TVTropes isn’t rape content, it’s documentation OF rape content in media. Tomb Raider’s rape scenario IS content in media.

    Being against proliferation of more problematic and unnecessary content and attitudes about rape while supporting documentation of examples of that continued content is not at odds at all. The latter does not contribute to the former. There is nothing inconsistent there.

    People do not support the continued proliferation of these tropes, and they wish that further instances of those tropes be documented, because they stand as evidence that these attitudes about rape narratives still exist.

  • Juliana Brown

    As a TVTropes user who has been following this situation from the beginning, this article contains several errors. The rape trope pages have not been deleted; they are (hopefully temporarily) blocked, under threat from Google to withdraw their ads (which provides most of the site’s operating budget). The admins have stated that the pages’ content is saved and can be quickly restored once Google is satisfied with the situation.

    The wall only affects tropes with “rape” in the title, and not the other potentially offensive topics that the article points out, because Google apparently cares less about the actual content than the name of the page. The site admins are in negotiation with Google to see what needs to be done to make the blocked tropes acceptable.

    I do think that there has been fairly poor communication from on high about what exactly is going on and what needs to be done about it, but part of this is that Google itself has apparently been very uncommunicative about what precisely they find problematic about the pages in question.

    Here’s the current official summary of the situation: Administrivia: The Second Google Incident.

  • http://www.thedungeoncrawl.blogspot.com/ Sean Samonas

    *puts on old man hat*

    I remember the internet when it was like the wild west.  I hate censorship.  I REALLY hate censorship to appease advertisers.

    I get that some people may find rape offensive, and by no means should it be glorified.  But this is akin to white washing history.  Just because something is offensive or horrible we can’t just ignore it.  And especially when the websites are there for academic or referential purposes…it just annoys me.  Rape is a horrible thing, but it exists and is abused for entertainment purposes.  We should have a database that lets people know how much it is used.  Just because the data is not collected by a bunch of people with degrees should it just be deleted and swept away.

  • Juliana Brown

    As a TVTropes user who has been following this situation from the beginning, this article contains several errors. The rape trope pages have not been deleted; they are (hopefully temporarily) blocked, under threat from Google to withdraw their ads (which provides most of the site’s operating budget). The admins have stated that the pages’ content is saved and can be quickly restored once Google is satisfied with the situation.
    The wall only affects tropes with “rape” in the title, and not the other potentially offensive topics that the article points out, because Google apparently cares less about the actual content than the name of the page. The site admins are in negotiation with Google to see what needs to be done to make the blocked tropes acceptable.

    I do think that there has been fairly poor communication from on high about what exactly is going on and what needs to be done about it, but part of this is that Google itself has apparently been very uncommunicative about what they find problematic.

    Here’s the current official summary of the situation: Administrivia: The Second Google Incident.

  • Juliana Brown

    As a TVTropes user who has been following this situation from the beginning, this article contains several errors. The rape trope pages have not been deleted; they are (hopefully temporarily) blocked, under threat from Google to withdraw their ads (which provides most of the site’s operating budget). The admins have stated that the pages’ content is saved and can be quickly restored once Google is satisfied with the situation.
    The wall only affects tropes with “rape” in the title, and not the other potentially offensive topics that the article points out, because Google apparently cares less about the actual content than the name of the page. The site admins are in negotiation with Google to see what needs to be done to make the blocked tropes acceptable.

    I do think that there has been fairly poor communication from on high about what exactly is going on and what needs to be done about it, but part of this is that Google itself has apparently been very uncommunicative about what they find problematic.

    Here’s the current official summary of the situation: Administrivia: The Second Google Incident.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GQIN74TNNQROY5JFPOWWBGJWEM andy

    If we just ignore it hard enough, it’ll cease to exist. Brilliant!

  • http://twitter.com/kcunning Katie Cunningham

    There was still snuff and dp, trust me. 

    Also, our tools have gotten a lot better. I did websites back then, and still do today, and I’m stunned at how GOOD the algorithms have gotten. This isn’t about how hard it is. It’s about silencing.

  • http://twitter.com/kcunning Katie Cunningham

    Hosting isn’t free, but there’s more than one way to get pay for it. You can get donations, or mark certain pages to be ad free. You can work with another vendor (there are tons).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MYC65UZW7OMSYCL4YRFH4XKKKQ Brian

    It is simply ludicrous that a website ostensibly devoted to writing tropes has removed some of the most pervasive ones ever.

  • http://twitter.com/septembergrrl Elisabeth

    The whole “this is all Google’s fault” TV Tropes explanation smells off to me. Surely, this is not the only ad-supported site to include content concerning rape. If the problem was that users kept editing offensive content onto those pages, it would be easy to place all new edits behind a moderation wall or freeze the pages as-is.  I smell mass hysteria.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MYC65UZW7OMSYCL4YRFH4XKKKQ Brian

    You can’t tell the difference between portraying rape and discussing the portrayal of rape? Seriously?

  • http://twitter.com/kcunning Katie Cunningham

    Thank you for chiming in. This is WAY different than the quote above, which made its sound like rape tropes were going to be censored forever.

  • Anonymous

    Yet another example supporting the claim that Google is Big Brother.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maricruz-Villalobos-Zamora/100000331523296 Maricruz Villalobos Zamora

    You know, I have been cool about the whole Rape thing, (although i did complained over a Work that was Banned because it had the word “Rape” on the title). But the reality is that I’m NOT cool with it. I discovered the issue because I wanted to talk about the adding of Rape to Lara Croft’s story, but I can’t because TVTropes doesn’t want about Rape. I want to discuss this issues, but now it’s impossible. I mean we have Tropes on Murder why is Rape worse?

  • http://www.commonplacebook.com electrasteph

    Wow – Not sure whether I’m more disappointed in Google or TVTropes at their handling of this, because neither of them did the right thing.

  • Anonymous

    “…We just won’t have articles about rape. Super easy. No big loss.” -Fast Eddie

    Actually, it’s a HUGE loss. What’s it like to have the privilege of this not affecting you personally? Must be real nice…Yay to Geek Feminism for stepping in. I think I’ll go help them.

  • Anonymous

    Here’s how I see it:

    1) The new Tomb Raider uses the suggested rape scene as a titillation device.  They’re not using it as a thoughtful discussion of how women are disproportionately targeted for sexual violence. They’re using it to add “flavor” to an already traumatizing event.  That, to me and to a lot of other people, is an unacceptable use of rape, especially in a game series with no previous examples of rape that has an established fanbase.  It doesn’t add anything substantive to Lara’s story, it’s just a glib sprinkle on top.  Combined with the developers’ “oh, we now want players to feel they have to protect Lara” attitude, it leaves a bad taste in our mouths.

    2) TV Tropes, on the other hand, isn’t a promotion of rape.  Rather, it’s a chronicle of how rape occurs and is depicted in media, which is a helpful resource for people who discuss rape culture.  It’s difficult for someone to say “Oh, women in superhero comics don’t get raped/dismembered/gendered violence-d THAT often, it’s not an issue” because someone else can point to an entire page of when and where that DOES happen.  But if TV Tropes removes that page, then it silences the conversation–which is keeping with a disturbing trend of general discourse where we as a culture don’t want to talk about uncomfortable things (especially those pertaining to women) and instead we’re sweeping them under the rug.  

    In addition, it’s about the access: if I was playing Tomb Raider and got to the attempted rape scene, the inclusion of it would make me uncomfortable because I wasn’t expecting it in my game.  There’d be no reason to: it wasn’t a part of the series beforehand and the sudden inclusion doesn’t add anything except uncomfortableness.  Meanwhile, if I was wandering through TV Tropes, and saw a link to “Rape is Love,” I could choose not to click it or prepare myself for what I was about to read.  In Tomb Raider, you don’t have that choice now except to not play the game at all.

    Essentially, you’re saying the two articles are conflicting and that the Mary Sue needs to stay on a side to remain credible.  But that’s just it: this IS the same side.  It’s all about the context of where and WHY the descriptions of rape are coming from.  The goals of the Tomb Raider developers in including that scene are for thrills (which is in bad taste and why calls for it to be removed are justified).  The goal of TV Tropes is being a catalog of rape’s appearances in fiction.  It’s a tool for our use in the discussion of rape and how it is depicted in our culture.  It does no good if it is gone, and that’s why the rape pages should remain at TV Tropes.  The depiction of rape as titillation is harder to fight if we don’t know just how prevalent it is, where it tends to pop up, and (most importantly) WHO tends to use it.

  • http://www.youngaspiringwriter.blogspot.com/ Chihuahua Zero

    There already have been efforts put in to get more revenue (ie, badges for the forums), but I’m not sure about what other precautions are being made.

  • http://www.youngaspiringwriter.blogspot.com/ Chihuahua Zero

    As a fellow Troper, I endorse this comment.

    Say, what’s your stance on P5, or the purging of porn or sexually-centered works?

  • Bryan Gillis

     I don’t think this was a case of mass hysteria. Rather, it’s a case of the one person in charge (Fast Eddie, who owns the site) deciding to cave in to Google, and then not leaving the issue up to discussion. He has a tendency to do this, and he almost never asks for public input on his decisions. TVTropes may be a wiki like Wikipedia, but while Wikipedia is democratic, TVTropes is autocratic when it all comes down to it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OD35QQZNBPZJXWTCBY7N4EE7VY Sarah

    Another TVTrope moderator commented on the deletion at Shakesville here:

    http://www.shakesville.com/2012/06/rape-turns-ladies-into-superheroes.html#comment-567147128

  • http://www.facebook.com/erebus.rubric Erebus Rubric

    “We just won’t have articles about rape. Super easy. No big loss.”  How very Orwellian.  By removing the documentation, it removes the language to discuss and address and, then, removes the horrific reality that rape-culture/rape-validation is pervasive in nearly every form of media and entertainment.  Censorship is a form of reality-editing: covering something to avoid offense.  If the topic of rape is so offensive, how much worse is the act?  And worse still is the inability to address the atrocity as a victim?

  • Anonymous

    I’ve been a Troper since AnAesop was added (I was the one who added it). This situation really makes me wonder if there is a better hosting arrangement that can be made, one where advertising is not needed and there is not a situation where the one admin at the top has this sort of pressure (and thus isn’t able to communicate as well as needed to the community about situations such as this).

    Honestly, TVTropes is a valuable meta-cultural resource and I’d lobby for TheOtherWiki to host it (as a separate, but related resource) if at all possible just because they have First Amendment balls (and lawyers).

  • http://twitter.com/septembergrrl Elisabeth

    You’re right … individual hysteria may be more accurate. But I read some of the censorship discussions last week and they were pretty bad; works were being chopped based on little more than thumbnail plot descriptions or questionable cover art. It made me feel like the moderation environment over there was generally leaning to the conservative.

  • Anonymous

    The rationale in response to the First Google Incident is that Google is “under no legal or moral obligation to support the site.” Which is kinda true, but still means Google’s a dick.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    The first thing you need to know about TV Tropes is that they don’t actually analyze why certain elements are used in media. The site is essentially just a bunch of lists of things that happened. Second, I’m glad TV Tropes got rid of the rape tropes because tropers have proven that they aren’t mentally and emotionally mature enough to handle such subject matter. Add in the fact that most of the TV Tropes userbase consists of racists, sexists, homophobes, and pedophiles, you can understand why the mods would want to delete all those pages. In case you don’t believe me about TV Tropes’s creepy userbase, just watch these videos.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feFHnIhJtG4&feature=plcp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-juv8bjzi44&feature=plcp

  • http://www.facebook.com/alexander.d.mccabe Alexander David McCabe

    As a troper, I should point out that the ongoing cleanup on TVTropes has several causes.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     A valuable meta-cultural resource? Are you high? A better name for TV Tropes would be “A List of Things That Happened: The (Bloated And Costly) Wiki. TV Tropes doesn’t analyze anything. It’s just a place where socially stunted weirdos can sperg about their favorite children’s cartoon show and make lists of a whole bunch of pointless trivia.

  • Anonymous

    Is it weird that I think that Google does have a moral obligation to at least not censor discussion about rape tropes, given the role they play in rape culture generally? As a company run by humans? 

    I need to figure out where to send my angry letter now.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     Eddie didn’t actually cave in to Google. His rampant penny-pinching is his main motivation for every decision he makes.

  • Anonymous

    I’m a troper and deeply disappointed in this ill-considered move. Forking these pages to preserve them is absolutely necessary – and this kind of capitulation to financial interests, instead of seeking a new income stream, strongly suggests that forking the entire site might be a good idea if we want to maintain this invaluable cultural resource.

    Remember however that when you fork a page from TV Tropes, under the license you have to preserve the list of contributors as well. The histories of the pages, containing this information, can still be viewed on the site normally and I’m in the process of preserving them. You just use a URL like this one, substituting the trope name appropriately:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.ChildByRape&more=t 

    I can’t really comprehend how Google could be objecting to pages like “Rape Is Okay If It’s Male on Male” if they, you know, looked at them at all. It should be obvious to anyone that *no* page on TV Tropes promotes or encourages rape or ever has. I’d like to know who at Google is responsible for this so that we could make clear to them their error and hopefully get this whole mess undone.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     TV Tropes doesn’t promote rape? I can debunk that claim with just two words: Sengoku Rance.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/SengokuRance?from=Main.SengokuRance

    Also, the reason why this happened isn’t because of the pages themselves. It’s that the site hosted the pages while at the same time claiming they’re “family-friendly”. Common sense dictates that you can’t host creepy shit while at the same time claiming you’re “family-friendly”. You just can’t.

  • Anonymous

    (merged into main comment)

  • Anonymous

    Due to the concern shown here and elsewhere, we’ve put the pages back. Hopefully, since we have removed all Google ads from the pages, they will let us live.

  • http://shadowfirebird.tumblr.com shadowfirebird

    If it’s just the WORD “rape” then I can’t see what the problem is: just ask any small, internet savvy child and they’ll tell you: pick another word to mean the banned word, and use that.   (That’s what they do on Club Penguin, FFS, when they want to play soldiers.)

    :g/rape/s//grape/g

  • http://randomarguments.livejournal.com/ RandomArguments

    For those interested in bringing back the Rape Tropes to TV Tropes. I’ve created a Change petition for it: 
    http://www.change.org/petitions/tv-trope-bring-back-the-rape-tropes#

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     I’m laughing so hard at your stupidity I can’t even come up with a good insult.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you! I understand you were under a lot of pressure but I really believe these tropes will contribute to positive discussions and reform around rape culture. To help lessen TV Tropes’ dependency on advertising, I’ve just donated $50 here:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/donate.php 

    I encourage everyone who has voiced their support of the value of this resource to put their money where their mouth is and contribute too.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     Do you really expect a community that shamelessly masturbates to cartoon children to discuss rape in a serious and mature manner? What kind of fantasy world are you living in?

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for your support!

  • Timothy Tankersley

    More news: 26th Jun: Rape tropes have been restored without Google Ads. To prevent further trouble, the tropes in question will be cleaned and then locked.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.burkhart.31 John Burkhart

    The curtain’s been lifted. The index has been restored.

  • http://twitter.com/Shw00 Shwoo

    I believe Fast Eddie wants the site to be family friendly, and there was a thread on Something Awful making fun of the site and its forum members’ rape obsession. Personally, I just miss the negative tropes. They were the most fun.

  • http://twitter.com/jpmeyer parody image of che

    My unfounded hypothesis:

    Fast Eddie made the blanket ban on discussions of rape because “discussions of rape” on TVT were generally crap like this (TW: shitloads of rape fantasies/apologies/etc.) http://tintower.co.uk/2012/01/04/the-goon-who-kicked-the-tropers-nest/

    It’s a great thing that those rape trope pages are going to the Geek Feminism Wiki, because now they’ll be updated by people that are cataloging those instances out of feminist anti-rape activism rather than being the end result after a lengthy masturbation session to U.S. Angel Corpse (for the love of god, don’t Google that.)

    That’s why the threads on SA on TVT had titles like “TV Tropes: Why the fuck are they so fixated on rape?” or “TV Tropes: Why the fuck do these dickholes post so much child pornography?”

    So this is actually a really complex issue.  TVT is so full of problematic crap, and so much of the site flows from such terrible people that I do call into question the utility of them cataloging something as serious as rape

  • Anonymous

    If you think TVTropes is useless, you must really hate Aristotle’s Poetics. TVTropes may be written in netspeak, and the cataloguing of every occurrence of a trope in cultural works may not be useful for everyone, but it’s incredibly useful for discussing poetics, dramatic and literary theory. I’m not kidding or high, I know graduate students who have used TVTropes for gathering references for academic papers on various cultural studies topics.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with you but I also think we need to band together to make sure Google does not have such power over discussion in our world. We need other funding options and systems for things we value, because advertising and corporate sponsorship are not things we can or should always depend on.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     Excuse me? Are you seriously comparing your shitty website to fucking Aristotle? Not only are you an idiot, you’re also arrogant. TV Tropes doesn’t analyze why certain elements are used, they just list all the works that use them. I’ve seen what tropers talk about. They don’t discuss poetic, dramatic, or literary theory. They spend all their time talking about what give them a boner and how sexy cartoon children are. Furthermore, a few anecdotal accounts does not prove a website’s worth.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     That’s the point. Eddie can’t call his site “family-friendly” and then host a whole bunch of creepy shit.

  • Anonymous

    Then you obviously know little of how literary analysis works, or about literature and storytelling. 

    In the same way that all matter in the universe is made up of elements found on the all important Periodic Table, all stories in pop culture are made up of tropes. Breaking them down to these base elements not only helps one understand a story, but connects that story to a larger picture of society’s view on that particular trope. 

    Understanding tropes makes writers better at their jobs, and TVTropes is one hell of a resource in that respect. 

  • Anonymous

    I’m not so sure TVTropes did the wrong thing here. How many people have actually read these pages? They were filled with creepy and disturbing content from people perving over rape scenes. I for one don’t blame FastEddie for wanting to get that stuff off TVTropes. Yes, it would be a good thing to have pages that discussed the use of rape in media from a critical, feminist perspective, but TVTropes users made quite clear that TVTropes isn’t a suitable place for that. Maybe GeekFeminism will be.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     My sentiments exactly. Like I said before, tropers are mentally and emotionally incapable of discussing something like rape in a serious and mature manner.

  • Anonymous
  • Anonymous
  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    You fucking tropers. Breaking down a story into its individual “tropes” means nothing if you don’t understand WHY those tropes are used. I’ve read countless trope pages, and they never explain WHY the tropes are used; they just list all the works that use them.

    And that’s another thing that annoys me about your website. Most of the “tropes” that are listed on there aren’t actual tropes. A trope is a literary convention or a plot device. Things like Chekhov’s Gun and Foreshadowing are actual tropes because they help tell the story. Shit like “Boobs Of Steel” and “You Gotta Have Blue Hair” aren’t tropes, because they don’t help tell the story at all. You tropers essentially took the word “trope” and corrupted its meaning to “some thing that happens in fiction”.

    Also, I’ve read stories that were written by tropers. TV Tropes doesn’t make you a better writer. If anything, it makes your writing worse. Troper-written fiction is essentially horribly-written fiction-by-numbers in which all of the “cool” “tropes” are awkwardly cobbled together in a vague semblance of narrative.

  • http://twitter.com/themindstream Jamie Brewer

     TV Tropes has pages on both the works of Ayn Rand and Michael Moore; you wouldn’t say that the site promotes their views, would you? Because it’s impossible to endorse both.

    And Sengoku Rance currently looks to be on the chopping block, not just because of the rape, but because one of the targets is underaged.

    I will not claim that TVTropes is all sweetness and light, but others have pointed out the existing problems in a much more accurate and nuanced manner while all you’re doing is screaming out the most negatively biased portrayals trying to get them noticed.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     Links to trope pages are not valid arguments, you dumb fuck.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     Links to trope pages are not valid arguments, you dumb fuck.

  • Anonymous

    The creepy stuff is representative of some creepy users, not the entire userbase of the site. Quite honestly, unless you’re looking at the analytics data, you cannot make any definitive statements about the ages, outlooks, or maturity levels of the users — which include readers as well as contributors.

    The first video is creepy, though the weird voice intensifies the effect. As I understand it, this page is being edited and watched to make sure it’s not some weird pedophile reference.

    The second video just shows how TVTropes is a reflection of our culture and the tropes that appear in it. For every trope that contains “adult” themes, there are also many, many tropes that are not salacious.

    Honestly, though, if you’re looking for something in anything you can usually find it. From conspiracy theories to sexually suggestive content, those determined to find such themes usually can (see also: Fredric Wertham’s “The Seduction of the Innocent” and The Vigilant Citizen website, which thinks, for example, Rihanna’s “Umbrella” is about Masonic world-domination). You are convinced that TVTropes is all about creepy and hateful stuff and, by confirmation bias, you will find it. Have fun with that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maude.garner Red Garner

     i believe someone has a hate hard-on. i see no reason for your abusive language. i have seen many discussions about tropes and most of these conversations are intelligent and informative. try looking at websites not overloaded with 15 year olds.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     @Red Garner: I’d take you more seriously if you actually bothered to capitalize the beginnings of your sentences.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maude.garner Red Garner

     what’s wrong with a catalog or list of things? isn’t that what an encyclopedia is? i’m just confused about your logic. please elaborate.

  • http://www.commonplacebook.com electrasteph

    Very cool – I’ve long been a huge fan and avid reader of TV Tropes, so I’m glad that this wasn’t a permanent deal. I’ve learned a lot about writing from the site; I’d hate to see it become less of a resource.

    If people truly are concerned about pages being “creepy” – it is a wiki. Hopefully users can help get pages to a place where they’re useful and not disturbing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maude.garner Red Garner

    i don’t particularly care if you take me seriously or not. i just wonder why you seem so full of anger over this issue and why you need to use such abusive speech. sounds like you need a hug to me! ^_^

  • Alaina Granter

     I’ve been reading TVTropes for years. Some of the destroyed pages were my favorites. Here’s what it does: it points out that cartoons, anime, reality TV, ancient literature, and myths all have things in common. As an English major, that was immensely valuable for analyzing it.

    As a writer, it’s immensely valuable. How do you do something well? By reading all the available examples and figuring out what works and doesn’t work. What tropes, specifically, are used in Pirates of the Caribbean? Are there any it shares with Robin Hood? If I use X, has it been used this way so many times that it’s become tired and cliche? How can I make it new?

    Compare it to Wikipedia: no one actually needs to know that much about peanut butter, but it’s there.

  • http://twitter.com/BrightBlueInk Haley L.

     Not only is the idea that there aren’t ANY trope pages devoted to analysis untrue, they also have an entire category devoted to pages specifically devoted to analyzing tropes and how works use them: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/Analysis?from=Main.Analysis

    I’m not sure why you’ve decided to hate the site so much, but while it’s true that there are definitely creepy users, the site has been cracking down to edit their stuff out as much as possible AND they represent a small part of the userbase, something that EVERY site with user generated content (probably including The Mary Sue itself, since it allows users to comment) have to deal with.

  • Anonymous

    Fair enough, I’ll be clearer: you are a troll, and you are starting a flamewar.

  • Anonymous

    You are being abusive. Please take it down a notch and drop the personal attacks.

    TVTropes is not a comprehensive literary tropes, archetypes, and motifs encyclopedia, but it’s still incredibly new, compared to, say, the Child Ballads Index (which doesn’t speculate on WHY either) and it’s edited by volunteers. It’s not critical of the “tropes” (I think grumpiness with the inaccuracy of TVTropes’ use of the word is justified), but that was never its mission. Other places are critical, TVTropes serves as a catalog of examples to aid pop cultural research and criticism or just to amuse the bored.

    If you don’t like TVTropes, I have a solution for you: don’t go there. Don’t read it. Don’t contribute to it. Fixed.

  • Anonymous

    I think it is valid criticism that the the word “trope” is used when the word “archetype” or “motif” is more appropriate. Please know, though, that being mad about this is like a typographer being mad about every use of Papyrus or Comic Sans — it’s a niche complaint for specialized pedants and is a poor reason to swear at strangers.

    As for fiction written by tropers: buying a professional painting set does not make you a good artist. It takes a lot of practice and basic understanding of how to use the tools you have available. TVTropes is like having a dictionary, not like having a Master’s in Creative Writing.

  • http://twitter.com/jpmeyer parody image of che

     From reading through the forum threads linked here, it looks like the problem was less that people were trying to silence pages saying stuff like “Tomb Raider introduces rape into Lara Croft’s backstory” was “creepy” but instead crap like “This troper became…engorged after reading about the addition of rape into Lara Croft’s backstory in the new Tomb Raider game” as being creepy (which Fast Eddie constantly needed to keep scrubbing out of the articles.)

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    In my view, TV Tropes will never improve until Eddie bans every single creep that pervs out over that shit.

  • http://twitter.com/Totz_the_Plaid Totz_the_Plaid

     BreadGood is just being a troll. Please stop replying to them. Ignore trolls and they get bored and go away. From your comments on here, I can tell that you’re a good person, but you’re wasting your time talking to someone who’s just attacking the site without using rational thought about it.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     The analysis tab is almost never used. Analysis takes effort, and effort is anathema to the people on TV Tropes. Making lists of things that happened is much easier.

    You probably don’t understand just how many creepy users there are on TV Tropes. If you want to know why I hate the site, just watch the video series “This Troper” and you will know.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/CrazyGoggs/videos?view=0

    This creepiness has been festering for years, and the mods did nothing to excise it. What they’re doing now is too little too late.

  • Anonymous

    While Eddie reported that Google was the reason for shutting it down, the truth is a little more upsetting; TVTropes pages about rape were … uh … a little too enthusiastic about the subject matter. It was almost as bad as some corners of Reddit. 

    Not tarring all tropers with the same brush but the internet creeps have hit the site and have a lot of spare time to keep the pages as vile as possible. Not defending the admins’ handling of it either; a cleanup and a lock of bad pages would’ve been better. Just saying it’s less “don’t talk about rape” and more “don’t talk about rape like THAT”. 

  • http://twitter.com/BrightBlueInk Haley L.

    Look, I’ve been checking out TV Tropes for years. (Although I wouldn’t call myself a “Troper” as I haven’t actively edited on the site in a while due to being too busy.) I’ve seen the creepy users and comments. Going to the actual source and seeing what the admins are trying to do with the website and seeing the overall content of it is going to be a LOT better at getting a feel for the site than a video that takes all the worst examples together. EVERY group of people ever will have creepy or weird people in it, and it can be easy to make any group of users look bad by putting the worst examples together and editing it all as one long stream of creepy.

    As for “people on TV Tropes don’t like effort” I don’t think you’ve ever tried to be an active editor on any sort of wiki. It takes a TON of time and energy to find examples for a show you like, or to rewrite stuff that needs to be rewritten, or to try to put together a page for a show or book. Sure, there’s lazy editors, but their stuff is often going to get cut by other people because of it being lower quality.

  • http://twitter.com/mmmarthur Aja

    Thank you from all of us in fandom who may not be regular tropers but who routinely rely on TV Tropes for quality context to all of our fannish and pop cultural discussions. 

  • http://twitter.com/Totz_the_Plaid Totz_the_Plaid
  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    This is exactly what I’ve been saying. Tropers have been talking about rape in a way that almost glorified it. People tried to get rid of the creepiness, but due to the site’s “No Negativity” policy, they were actually banned for trying to make the site not look creepy. You can’t even call the creeps out on their bullshit without getting banned.

  • http://twitter.com/jpmeyer parody image of che

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13337557970A60673700&page=5#106

    “In the mean time, though, I’d be great if everyone could focus on the pages we know for sure that we’re keeping. Rewrite anything that sounds too gushy, is rape apologia, or reads like it was typed with one hand. Whenever a page looks clean, please make a bolded statement to that effect so that we know to lock the page.”

  • http://profiles.google.com/ashleysue Ashley Sue

    THANK YOU!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/5WH4IXDTYHNGONQMDK6WUXFKYI Lynn C

    On the Internet, Google IS Big Brother. If Google decides it doesn’t like you, or you fall afoul of one of their constantly changing rules, you just…disappear. Searches won’t find you, their spiders won’t crawl your site, maybe you lose the click-through ads that pay for your hosting. I don’t blame Fast Eddie at all – and I’m beyond impressed that he put the pages back.

  • http://twitter.com/Totz_the_Plaid Totz_the_Plaid

    Dude… they’ve been back for hours.

  • Nick Gaston

    Ah! And as another note, which I forgot to mention…the tropers who created said archive were actually *banned* from TV Tropes by Fast Eddie for doing so—which does cast suspicions on the man’s motivations and tactics involving site content control.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MYC65UZW7OMSYCL4YRFH4XKKKQ Brian

    Yes, you’ve been saying it. Over and over and over and over.

  • http://twitter.com/takship Jazzi Sanchez

    I was so pissed off when I realized what had happened. I’m glad that I read through most of them before, but there are still a lot of people who need to know how rape is portrayed in the media. It’s annoying that we can’t have a frank and open discussion about certain topics just because they’re unpleasant. We can’t just pretend that these things don’t exist, that won’t make it go away, we need to talk so that it can get better.

  • Anonymous

    Read up, as of posting this the pages are back. I think that it was a temporary solution from the get-go, until they could come up with a better option (They did, now those pages are no longer ad-supported. So Google has no official stake in the issue)

  • Nick Gaston

     Heh…funny, they’d been gone for weeks with nary a word of update, but within a day of attention and ire finally being drawn from non-troper sources? Back up.

  • Anonymous

    Except that TVtropes is to literary critique what Fox News is to clear, factual, unbiased reporting of actual events: An thats to say, in no way related
     
    While you are correct that all matter in the universe is made up of elements found on the all important Periodic Table, all stories in pop culture are made up of tropes, i’d say tvtrope’s version of the perioidic table includes such well known perioidic elements as explodium & improbolium: Both of which we know are vital in the field of Faux-Scientific Handwavium.

  • Anonymous

    because there policies aren’t broken.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maude.garner Red Garner

     because all of use find nothing more enjoyable then dresses, earrings, and cute little movie reviews?

    i like the balance. i could personally do with less shallow examples of geeky girl power but whatever, to each his or her own. i’ll tolerate superhero tutus if you’ll tolerate articles of a political/controversial nature, deal? :)

  • Crystal Summers

    Thanks Eddie, as a female and a troper this was a very important issue for me, and i’m glad you’re not letting us down. I’m going to donate what I can in gratitude and hope that you’ll continue work on your wonderful website in all its glory.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    And yet you people don’t listen.

  • David Formosa

    I do think that just because someone shamelessly masturbates to cartoon children doesn’t discount them having mature and serious views on rape.  The argument you are making is basically an ad hominem a well known fallacy.  What a person does in the realm of fantasy is not necessary related to what they may do in real life.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

     Why must you defend shameless pedophiles?

  • http://twitter.com/mishellbaker Mishell Baker

    Yeah.  Um, I’ve never relied on TV Tropes in order to hold discussions about rape in the media… or anything else.  Never honestly understood the hype about the site.  It’s an amusing way to waste an hour clicking links that lead to links that lead to links, but people are pretty much capable of discussing serious issues without its help.

  • http://www.fibrowitch.net Jan Dumas

    Thanks for reporting this story, I am a big troper myself and I am disappointed in TV Tropes for buckling under. 

  • http://acksed.livejournal.com/ AckSed

    TV Tropes was a nerd haven for a particular subtype of nerd – the cataloguer. Just as scientists collected butterflies and named them after themselves, we delighted in picking out tropes and naming them after our favourite quotes or characters. We then got a further burst of glee when other tropers picked them up and started using it in their forum posts, which is why we got (and still get) so steamed about changing trope names, and even worse about deleting – it’s like someone changing English on you as you’re speaking.

    The second facet of the community was media discovery and sharing what you’d discovered. I found so many new things through following links from tropes it’s not funny. I also got a kick out of adding to the canon of media pages and seeing how fast we could populate it with tropes.

    The third facet, and one I miss the most, was that we were a collection of like-minded people feeding off and reinforcing each other. The Fetish Fuel (I found this sexy, did you?) and Troper Tales (this happened to me) parts were a prime example of this. Thing was, that was the part where I felt the freest & most connected to the community. As a repressed man I could find identification in the shameful parts of my sexuality, I discovered that girls could act just as sexually-charged as boys when given license (the Fetish Fuel subsection of The Nostalgia Critic entry, the Ho Yay listing) and I found alternative views of sexuality (I talked to a trans person for the first time when I ventured onto the forums). I miss that… freedom.

    It wasn’t all good, I realise that now. We all wanted that ego-boost of being immortalised in the great work and that meant a lot of rationalising, duplicated tropes and outright flamewars; we’re still dealing with the incorporation of all that into the shared culture of the wiki to this day. Further, like a lot of nerd communities, the company of my fellow tropers brought me up, but also pulled me down. I was blind to the fact that we were perving out over a lot of anime, acting like we were on the frontier of something great when a lot of it wasn’t that great in quality and unknowingly being arseholes while outside it.

    There were a number of inherent problems as well. The unrestrained growth and lack of regulation inherent in “There Is No Such Thing As Notability” meant that the wiki grew like a tumour, but it started to collapse in on itself once the number of tropes grew too big to manage. There were no laws and we wouldn’t have wanted any anyway. It’s still happening today.

    Going back to the removal of tropes, when Troper Tales and Fetish Fuel was trimmed and then cut, yes, it was an administrative nightmare, but it was also a record of the earlier years and, I think, an embarrassment to the mods, some who had contributed entries there themselves. The biggest fuckup was the institution of YMMV. When first created, the alt-text on the little shrugging man at the top of every page moved to the new namespace read “This is not a trope.” It was quickly changed, but I think that said it all – “you’re not settled enough to be part of the Main namespace, languish in this ghetto for ever more”. And it is a ghetto, because to link to it in a normal forum post or entry means having to type out the extra few letters and a forward slash before you WikiWord, which is not as intuitive or memorable. Which means it gets used far less, And we all know what happens to a word when it’s used less – it’s forgotten. And there’s no way out of the ghetto for these contentious tropes.

    It had been degrading for a while what with the humourlessness of the mods, the insistence on one ‘voice’, but the thing that killed my sense of community stone-dead was the institution of censorship. Because our glorious leader saw an admittedly shocking video, any media entry with more than a passing mention of paedophilia or porn was deleted and locked. Suddenly, chilling effect – whereas before I could discuss sexual works and add entries, now I was afraid to speak of sex or porn, or even call out the mods, for fear of being banned. It might sound cheap or silly, but I spent 3 years going through pages correcting errors and cleaning up and I want to keep doing that under the name I signed up with. It’s not much of an achievement, but there you go.

    Nowadays, all I go there for is to comment in a few threads and maintain an entry or two.

  • Anonymous

    Discussing rape isnt obscene, the act is obscene. 
    Ugh. Rape tropes are so prevelent and go a long long long ways back ( Zues should be known as Mr. McRapey) that I think discussing it is important. grr arrgh.

  • http://acksed.livejournal.com/ AckSed

    Show me on the doll where the wiki touched you.

  • Anonymous

    Most of the articles deleted were creepy hentai games, creepy rape pages and those containing overly detailed and fetishistic account of sexual violence. Articles on hentai games where you could rape your mother or siblings were deleted. Articles about animes featuring a 9 year old girl in love with her teacher were deleted. Articles about various panty shots in the media were deleted. A list of which rape scenes TVtropes found the funniest is now gone. What a tragic blow for women’s rights. :_c

  • http://twitter.com/SylviaSybil Sylvia

     Are you trying to suggest that the way you use this wiki is the only possible way anyone can use it? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

    Not trying to be rude, just clarifying your statement.

  • http://twitter.com/mishellbaker Mishell Baker

    All I’m saying is that the site is not necessary to the fight for gender equality, and that while removing rape tropes from it is preposterous and counterproductive, that removal really shouldn’t cause the slightest hiccup to any serious research or discussion on rape in the media. To suggest that anything that occurs at the site is a huge blow to a struggle that preceded it and will continue long beyond it seems to be an exaggeration of the site’s relevance.

  • http://twitter.com/SylviaSybil Sylvia

     I see.

    Then I shall contradict you by saying I personally have found the site to be a valuable resource in my serious discussions of rape in media, and would absolutely find this removal to cause more than a slight hiccup.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alex.maskill Alex Maskill

    I think that it’s ridiculous that a site dedicated to talking about recurring themes and patterns in fiction won’t talk about ones which are pretty troubling and should absolutely be talked about and discussed.

  • http://twitter.com/nymphonomicon Doctor Madness

    Massive disservice to the community, not to mention the concepts of free speech and free transfer of information, but so long as Fast Eddie gets to keep his precious advertising and corporate masters happy, then apparently all is right in the world.

  • Anonymous

    Perhaps this is old an old thread but what you posted isn’t in effect anymore: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SexualHarassmentAndRapeTropes?from=Main.RapeTropes

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OM6JQWK3ZZCDQSYK5LBYL7GZ3A Sixthhokage1

    The real problem here wasn’t the fact that content was cut, it’s that decisions were made and were never announced unless you were following the situation, and then it was often other tropers noticing and pointing out the administration’s actions instead of the administration pointing it out. Then a friend of mine, pointing out this fact, got *banned* for it. While I like the site, Fast Eddie has lost my respect. He is not the kind of person fit to admin such a site.

  • geldsmaggen

    Somebody would make a separate website just for these tropes. It’s not TvTropes has a monopoly on reporting information about TvTropes.

  • Squadala

    What you’re basically saying is that anything cataloging anything that happens is pointless. The part about TV Tropes not analyzing anything is patently untrue, as the vast majority of what the site does is in part its own form of analysis. At the very least, TV Tropes does far more analysis than many other sites.

    At best, you’re some kid who hates TV Tropes, the same kind of person who looks up a song on YouTube just to post comments about how much it sucks. If you hate TV Tropes this much, steal no more time from yourself or anybody else and move on with your life, as what TV Tropes and the people running do it therefore has no meaning to you.

  • Anonymous

    What I find disturbing is the “It’s Not Porn It’s an Index” and all of its subtropes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ItsNotPornItsAnIndex

    Using “porn” as a metaphor normalizes porn. Since porn is the graphic representation of rape, casually dropping “porn” into a conversation is like a spot of casual rape joking.

  • Anonymous

    If you were about to explain to me that I am being silly and that porn actually empowers women instead of degrading them, please go google I Blame the Patriarchy.

  • nilonetwo

    We live in a “delete everything” culture. People can censor each other better than the government ever could.

  • Axslayer33

    I’d like to just inform everyone-As of 11/15/12, all rape tropes are back online, they have been categorized on the site in at least 2 places, and all have prohibitions against real life examples. Beyond that they have been restored as normal.

  • Bill Marson

    Ignore him, if you look at all of his comments, he’s a deliberate troll.

  • sickwitkid

    Breadgod is right. The rest of you are idiots, including the author of this article.

    “it’s undeniable that losing an enormous amount of content that adds visceral context to an ongoing and important discussion would be a Kiss of Death to TV Tropes’ integrity as an archive”

    That whole premise this article is based on is a blunder. TVtropes has no legitimacy apart from its infamy as a social club for weirdos, pedophile sympathizers, social outcasts (the type who shoot up schools), and weeaboos who think the pinnacle of high storytelling is mecha anime and other japanese tripe.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1310062352 Julia Watson

    Just chiming in here in support of how valuable TVTropes is. I used TVTropes as a resource when preparing my Creative Writing MFA thesis paper and graduate lecture on the gendered portrayal of action heroes in popular ’80s cinema, and how to build a better action hero/ine. The information on their site was incredibly useful in building character models that challenge gender stereotypes in the action genre.

  • The Voice

    So, Fat Edward, I hear you think you’re allowed to ban people for having mental disorders! Think they’ll start making “Draven Was Right” T-Shirts?

  • The Voice

    TheVoice WILL be heard, and one day, you and your entire site will pay for your depravity. In the meantime, I’m going to to tear you all a new one. “He who casts the first stone in a glass house is fucked big-time.”

  • The Voice

    Loser! Loser! Loo-hoo-hoooooo-SERRRRR!!!

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    Really? Your best argument is to call me a loser? Of course, that’s the sort of behavior I’d expect from a troper.

  • The Voice

    Still on here? I guess I was right. You were wrong, you haven’t SEEN my best argument, and I’m no troper. Got banned years ago for being the only person on there with an ounce of sense in his head. Now, I’ve found a new calling: Ripping every depraved site a new one as the one true Voice of Truth and Justice. TvTropes, SomethingAwful, 4chan, Youtubers, Anon, Westboro, The Klan, The Nazis, The Mob. Always one side thinking they’re in the right, and the other side is in the wrong, but what you don’t get is, none of you are right, you’re all just different flavors of wrong. Sure, you might have some points, but there’s always at least one deal-breaker. One trait that destroys your credibility. Luckily, I don’t have one.

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    I was about to reply to the stupidity put out by “The Voice” but it seems his comments got deleted. LOL. That guy reeked of unwarranted self-importance.

  • Imo Maru

    I’m always watching you, no matter where you are, and whether by my hand, or not, I’ll be there to witness your destruction. Reminds me of my favorite verse in my favorite song: “There’s a room where the light won’t find you- holding hands while the walls come tumbling down! When they do, I’ll be RIGHT BEHIND YOU-”

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    You’re a “warrior of the internet”? LOL. I’m starting to think you’re some sort of elaborate joke.

  • Imo Maru

    Ah, that reminds me of another set of lyrics! Ev-’ry-thing you know is wrong! That is why up is down, and short is long! Just for-get the words and sing a-long! All you need to un-der-stand is everything you know is wro-o-o-ong!

  • http://autisticmetalhead.blogspot.com/ BreadGod

    Quoting Weird Al at me does not make your “warrior of the internet” comment any less ridiculous.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1041570829 Erin Winslow

    Not THAT much simpler.

  • kamikazeblonde

    the link for Gail Simone’s Women in Refrigerators is a dead link – every time I click on it, it routes me to unheardtaunts.com

  • Anonymous

    Your comment sums up exactly what I’ve observed in his comment, especially about what he is ‘at best.’ Those kind of people are common on the internet, and he probably is one.

    I’ve seen lots of his comments on other things, too, and he seems to be pedantic, offensive and inherently angry.

    I agree, too, that TV Tropes does analyse. Even if it didn’t, it is still a repository of interesting trivia, which is helpful to anyone who is inquisitive and enjoys seeking new knowledge (like me!)

  • Anonymous

    Wouldn’t have put it quite like that, but BreadGod has been very hypocritical.