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What's with the name?

Allow us to explain.

Great Hera!

Gal Gadot is History’s First Movie Wonder Woman


There are a lot of things we don’t know about Wonder Woman in Batman “Not the Actual Title” vs. Superman. But what we know right now is: She will be in it. And she will be played by Israeli actress Gal Gadot of the Fast and Furious movies.

Variety has the official announcement, with a quote from Zack Snyder himself:

Wonder Woman is arguably one of the most powerful female characters of all time and a fan favorite in the DC Universe. Not only is Gal an amazing actress, but she also has that magical quality that makes her perfect for the role. We look forward to audiences discovering Gal in the first feature film incarnation of this beloved character.

Here’s what we don’t know: to what extent Wonder Woman will appear in the film. The project is still operating under the title Batman vs. Superman for the moment, and a list of recent domain registrations by Warner Bros. do not stray from that theme. According to Variety:

Insiders believe the plan is to have not just Batman and Superman in the film but several members of the Justice League as well. It’s unclear which members, but Wonder Woman (Diana Prince) and the Flash are said to be locks to make an appearance in some fashion, whether that’s a significant role or a cameo.

So there’s no indication yet that we’re going to be seeing a so-called Trinity movie. And, of course, we’re still looking at a sequel from the team behind Man of Steel, a lukewarm success among fans and critics; as well as a movie from Zack Snyder, whose track record on female characters can be hit or miss (as much as I loved Lois and Faora in MoS, there’s still Watchmen and Sucker Punch). And we’re still looking at the most well-known superheroine in the world making her big screen debut in at most third billing in a sequel to someone else’s franchise that appears to focus primarily on two male characters. So many people have made the excuse that Wonder Woman is a difficult hero to adapt because of her less well known origin story. Introducing her as a secondary character in a movie that probably won’t even have time to go into her background in depth does not seem like a solution to that assumed hurdle.

Does the idea that Wonder Woman will appear in Batman vs. Superman make me more interested in seeing the movie? Yes, barely. But when Wikipedia’s Batman in Film and Superman in Film articles run five to seven thousand words each, and Wonder Woman doesn’t even have one, this seems, at the moment, to look a lot like a tiny bandage offered for a much larger problem. This is a step in the right direction, but not a giant leap for Amazon-kind.

(via Variety.)

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  • Anonymous

    “Wonder Woman is arguably one of the most powerful female characters of all time”

    “Arguably”? Yeah, this is the guy we want handling Diana’s debut.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    OH MY GOD

  • Thomas Hayes

    Still marginally better than Fox, but still too poor a showing. *sigh* I hope this film has a good script.

  • blu girl

    I haven’t seen her acting so I’m not sure what to expect. I guess I’m happy we’ll finally have WW on the big screen. But I’m just kinda meh until I actually see the movie.

  • TheChief

    I think these different heroes being in the movie might be the impetus for the creation of the JL. They see things work much better if they work together to take on catastrophic events rather than individually taking them on.

  • https://twitter.com/adamhowardcross Adam Cross

    yeah… no. She’s not good enough, 3 of her 5 movie credits have been Fast and Furious movies, she’s not a strong enough actor for WW

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    As someone who has seen all the Fast movies, I rather like Gal Gadot as an actress.

  • http://groggybot.blogspot.com/ grog1138

    I second that. Gadot kicked ass in Fast and Furious.

  • http://adventureinepisode.tumblr.com/ DarthBetty

    On most of the boards I’ve been on reaction has been negative. I don’t particularly get it. I’m chalking it up to “fan people being fan people”. The say she needs to bulk up and she looks boring. Come on. First of all we will be lucky if the producers LET her put on muscle. Secondly, she’s 5’9. She’s got some powerful eyes. And she’s ISRAELI! Wins so far.

    This casting seems solid. The issue is really going to be with the quality of the script and all these random elements being thrown into the film.

  • Geoff Gilmour-Taylor

    “So many people have made the excuse that Wonder Woman is a difficult hero to adapt because of her less well known origin story.”

    Which doesn’t even make sense, since movie makers seem to love telling (and re-telling) superhero origin stories.

  • http://discord-inc.tumblr.com/ James Fletcher

    I’m worried that all she’s going to do in this movie is show up in the post-credits sequence which only consists of her yelling “JUSTICE LEAGUE!” over and over again. I mean, you could do that in a totally cool way, but it would make the pre-release hype over the casting feel disingenuous.

  • Anonymous

    I was not impressed by Man of Steel and am skeptical of this movie, but I think this is a nice publicity move if nothing else. Marvel has soundly thrashed WB at the box office when it comes to everything but their Batman movies, and I think the novelty of “Batman meets Superman!” has worn off in light of the Avengers.

    Wonder Woman on the other hand is an iconic character that people have been wanting to see for a while. Marvel has done gangbusters with lesser known heroes but they don’t have anyone that the public is really begging for at this point. The movie could (and likely will) turn out mediocre but at least revealing it has WW gives them some serious buzz.

    But what am I saying. At the end of the day it has Batman in the title so people are probably gonna see it no matter what the critics think. Dude prints money.

  • http://www.lawlessgentile.com/ Ali Miller

    My thoughts exactly, Susana. This film already feels like a runaway train barely staying on the rails. Introducing Wonder Woman into the mix just seems… dangerous. I’m so worried that if the film fails, they’ll just use it as another excuse to not go forward with a solo WW movie.

    Then again, I guess it would be difficult for a Batman vs. Superman movie ~featuring Wonder Woman!~ to fail financially, even if it’s a critical wash. Which is exactly what WB is banking on, of course. Name recognition, getting butts in the seats.

    The one good thing about this: I love the casting. Let’s hope Gal Gadot really gets a chance to shine as Diana.

  • http://pontoonification.blogspot.com/ AverageDrafter

    Isn’t the fact that her origin is unknown (and constantly changing) make her EASIER to adapt? She’s like Iron Man was, no public baggage (Carter was long enough ago to have faded into nostalgia, and most people don’t remember the Greek stuff on that show anyways) really other than she’s a woman.

  • http://zacshipley.com/ Zac Shipley

    well if we’re talking fictional powers, there are more powerful female characters.

    if “powerful” is meaning influence then Wonder Woman is in a class by herself.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve seen her work in the Fast and Furious franchise and she was as good as she could be in those type of films.

    Still, her casting pretty much explains why I didn’t want Zach Snyder directing Wonder Woman’s debut. Her résumé is scary thin for a role of that importance. Henry Cavill did not do much before Man of Steel but he still was the star of another film before. Gadot only had a smallish part in an ensemble and she will now have to portray an iconic character for a director that is absolutely not up to the task.

  • John W

    Well now we know Katee Sackhoff isn’t going to be WW.

  • Anonymous

    That… would be better than I expect.

  • Anonymous

    “but she also has that magical quality that makes her perfect for the
    role” – Well, maybe my eyes are not good anymore but I see nothing of
    that kind. I just see a bland pretty face of another exchangeable
    starlet. I’m sorry but this is not Wonder Woman. I can understand the
    desire of the film makers to not to go with an already established star
    but they could and should have done MUCH better. I really rather would
    have had a Gina Carano whom I would believe to be able to handle
    physical action or at least someone with a strong charisma.

    But what am I talking about. These are the people who actually think Ben Affleck would be gold as Batman!

  • Bryant Francis

    “Wonder Woman is arguably one of the most powerful female characters of all time and a fan favorite in the DC Universe. Not only is Gal an amazing actress, but she also has that magical quality that makes her perfect for the role. We look forward to audiences discovering Gal in the first feature film incarnation of this beloved character.”

    I’m probably just reading way too much into this, but wouldn’t it have been a little cooler if he could have just said “powerful characters” instead of “powerful female characters?”

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    I’m a bit surprised how positive I feel about this. I like Gal Gadot and while my hopes for the movie remain low, I’d rather get a less-than perfect movie with Wonder Woman in it than another year of nothing.

  • Eric Xin

    Wonder Woman really could use

    1) Costume change-I don’t think anyone would take serious of the American Flag Leotard.

    2) A title change perhaps? WONDER woman give the impression of a circus show to a non Comic fan fan. “Come see everyone, the amazing wonder woman!”

  • Anonymous

    He just kept the brakes on with that statement. “Arguably one of the most powerful female characters of all time”? “One of the most powerful” or “arguably the most powerful” would’ve worked.

  • Anonymous

    But let’s see if Snyder ever uses that qualifier for the boys. I mean, by his apparent standards, Bruce is “arguably” a better detective than Adrian Monk, no?

  • Anonymous

    But I wanted Joanne Kelly!

  • http://twitter.com/#!/scarletsherlock scarletsherlock

    I’m so overwhelmed I just don’t know how to feel. I’ve waited my entire life to see this character onscreen in a big movie (I wasn’t born when Lynda Carter’s originally aired, though I grew up watching the reruns & she is one of my idols). This honestly feels like they’re shoe-horning her into it and it’s going to be a mess.

  • http://anna.balasi.com/ AnnaB

    I would agree with you, if executives didn’t make a habit of blaming female leads/characters for a superhero movie’s non-success. And by this I mean they take the failure of a movie and translate it into: “We can’t make a movie with a female superhero as the main protagonist. She was in So-and-So movie and that wasn’t very successful.”

  • Anonymous

    Eh, if Monk had access to millions of dollars worth of sci-fi equipment Batman would stand no chance.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    Well, they’re already making that argument, so we might as well get Wondy on screen in the bargain.

  • Anonymous

    Somebody write up a Batman/Sharona team-up fic!

  • Anonymous

    Her origin hasn’t changed as much over the years compared to other characters. It’s only recently that she’s gotten a drastic (& terrible) overhaul. The character is already in danger of being genicized by the public without them changing her origin just because only nerds would notice. The reason Batman, Spider-Man, & Superman are so iconic is that mass media keeps portraying them consistently besides some minor tweaks & updates.

  • Annika Raaen

    Uh. Do you read superhero comics at all? How many superheros have stupid costumes and outdated names? Superman. The Amazing Spiderman. BATMAN, fer crissakes. A guy in a rubber bat suit. Yeah…obviously NO ONE took him seriously.
    Sure, they should update her costume, but, dude, the name stays.

  • http://www.mfdestiny.com/ Burritomadness

    It can’t be worse than the tv pilot, right? Please?

  • Anonymous

    Right. Agree that it’s a lame excuse.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    Linda Carter was pretty tiny when she wore the tiara, but I agree that any actress playing Wonder Woman needs serious guns to punch people in the face.

  • Anonymous

    *sigh* They just released the new trailer for the 300 sequel. Eva Green looks like she’s gonna be badass. Why didn’t you cast her, Zach? She has experience, look and a screen presence!

    Oh well.

  • Annika Raaen

    Pass. I’d pass on it even if WW wasn’t in the movie. It sounds awful, but I guess we’ll see. *shrug*
    And this gal is certainly beautiful, and maybe she’s got the skills needed to look like she’s kicking ass (I’ve never seen the movies she’s been in)…but I want to see a figure like Xena on screen. Tall, muscular, imposing, beautiful. That’s an Amazon. That’s Wonder Woman.

  • Anonymous

    Well, I’m glad that there IS a Wonder Woman. Whether she makes a good one or not–or if the movie is even any good–time will tell. I was holding out for Jaimie Alexander (Marvel’s Sif) which, but it’s better than no Wondy at all.

    ….right?

  • Annika Raaen

    And my heart breaks. :(

  • Thomas Hayes

    It would have to suck major balls to be that awful. And as tepid as Goyer and Snyder might make me feel, they’re not THAT inept.

  • Laura Truxillo

    ” And we’re still looking at the most well-known superheroine in the
    world making her big screen debut in at most third billing in a sequel
    to someone else’s franchise that appears to focus primarily on two male
    characters”

    Yeeeeaah, this.

    And yet I get the feeling that their response will still be, “What, we gave you Wonder Woman, you still aren’t happy? Sheesh, there’s no pleasing you people.” But it feels like they were just thinking, “well, while we’re at it, let’s just put her in real quick to shut people up about how we haven’t had Wonder Woman yet.” Seriously like a stop-gap, an afterthought. And let’s not hold our breath to see how much of the merchandise she gets put on.

  • Anonymous

    I think you are correct about fan people being fan people. It’s so odd that to be a fan is to like something and the number one activity of fans lately seems to be to dislike everything.

  • http://bayareageekguide.com/ Mike Chen

    “Justice League” is pretty silly too, except if it’s made up of SuperFriends.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I have to agree: I’m not sure who came up with the ‘greatest detective’ line, but I’d argue for ‘richest’.

  • Lowprices

    A story about Zack Snyder films:

    Some friends and I went to see 300 at the cinema, and inside the foyer there was a poster of the main lady (whose name I forget) with the words: “You Will Not Enjoy This” (which is a line from the film). After the film (which is rubbish, in case you wondered), we walked out into the foyer and my friend, in front of the crowd gathered for the next showing, shouted “You were right, poster! Why didn’t I listen?” Several people actually left the cinema.

    Not sure why I was reminded of that by Man of Steel-related news…

  • Laura Truxillo

    Forget that. Stottlemeyer and Comissioner Gordon comparing mustaches and ulcers!

  • Anonymous

    I’m there for that.

  • Eric Xin

    Well, I don’t ever see Spiderman call himself “The AMAZING” Spiderman. Just spiderman. I just feel heroes shouldn’t have their own description. People can call you “the Heroic Girl”, but you shouldn’t have your own name as “The Heroic girl.”

    I guess I just have a problem with titles that have Adjectives in front of them. “Wonder” Woman. As opposed to say, Rogue, Psylocke, Black Widow or the White Queen.

  • Anonymous

    About halfway through, I forced myself to think of 300 as a bromantic comedy featuring the Klingon Empire. Made the rest of the movie smooth sailing for me.

  • Anonymous

    Before I resume my crapping on that franchise, I will defend them a little here. If the point is just to introduce her, they don’t need that much screen time to do it. They can keep their Batman and Superman film and use one scene to introduce her, the way Hawkeye and Nick Fury first appeared. What is important is what they do next.

  • Anonymous

    …I am now saddened that there is a 300 sequel. (Not because of Eva Green, mind you! Just the fact that there is a sequel.)

  • Annika Raaen

    But Wonder Woman’s name is Diana, and she goes by Diana most of the time. I think that the only time she refers to herself as Wonder Woman is when she refers to herself as someone who will kick bad guys’ asses. Or when she contemplates the persona of Wonder Woman. I don’t think she takes it on as a personal name.
    PLUS…she’s been Wonder Woman for over 70 years. That’s just who she is. ;)

  • MeatyStakes

    Haven’t really seen her in anything; and her bone structure is just too soft. I’m not really seeing Diana in there, and chances of her bulking up for the role are really slim, let’s me honest :(

    And this might sound bad, and it’s not in any way a demerit on her talent; but that they cast someone with a beauty queen background instead of an action stun career makes me think that their priorities are not mine.

    Alas, is just wait and see, and I will be 100x times happier if Gadot turns to be an amazing WW

  • MeatyStakes

    Basically yeah, we need the 2010′s Lucy Lawless, whomever she might be.

    I actually kinda liked Jamie Alexander, she definitely had the facial structure, and if Christian Bale can go up and down that scale, I trusted Alexander could bulk up for the role.

  • John W

    Hey this could mean she’s going to be Captain Marvel. If that’s the case I will be doing the happy happy joy joy dance.

  • athenia45

    If Themyscira is as badass as Krypton (and Gina Torres is Hippolyta), I’m ok with this!

  • Eric Xin

    I guess, but a lot of “classic superheroes” goes on re-mixes in the new movies. Iron man gave away his secret identity on the first movie, Batman the consummate bachelor got it on with Cat Woman, Nick Fury turned black, the Riddler and two-face became the Jokers, X-men costume changes, Mystique was Xavier’s sister, The Mandarin is a drunk, etc.

    I just have trouble with Diana lassoing bad guys, and one of them would ask “Who..who are you?”

    Do you really want the poor actress say “I am WONDER woman?”

    Or a simple “I am Diana?”

  • KF

    It’s an expression. You’re reading too much into it.

  • Rebecca R

    Actually Zach has used ‘arguably’ in the context of both Batman and Superman and their respective places in the DC Universe and Comics at Large ‘Arguably’ is just his word.

  • Thomas Hayes

    Snyder always comes across like a bit of a dumbass whenever he’s interviewed.

  • Rebecca R

    I agree, I’m impressed by this. They cast an exotic looking Israeli who is tall and appears to have some actual acting chops. She’s a bit more waiflike than I’d like but she’s actually served in the Israeli Defense Forces, I’m sure she can pack some muscle like Ben and Henry are doing.

  • Anonymous

    This! All this!!

  • Rebecca R

    Zach’s a DC Comic Books Fan. He knows quite well that in order to not piss off Supergirl or Powergirl fans (etc) he needs to qualify his qualified statements. He does the same thing with both Batman and Superman.

  • KF

    Gadot was a soldier in the Israeli military for two years. I’d guess she can handle physical action.

  • Rebecca R

    Runaway train? Even though
    - Snyder’s already disclosed that this is a cooperative movie, not a vs. movie.
    - That it’s not in any way a remake of Frank Miller’s crapload.
    - That we’re actually having this discussion in the wake of the AVENGERS?

  • Rebecca R

    Actually I don’t agree with this. No, she’s not 6 foot, but why does she need to be physically tall and powerful in order to kick ass? Buffy didn’t, and Wonder Woman is a billion times more mystically supernatural than Buffy. There’s nothing that says women have to be a certain physique to compete with the men.

  • Rebecca R

    No one knew who Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston were before their respective Avengers roles, and that seems to have turned out fine.

  • Rebecca R

    Let’s not forget though: several characters in the Marvel universe have made their on-screen debut through someone else’s movie. There’s absolutely no reason to suspect that Zach is doing anything other than introducing heroes that DC wants to screen test before giving them their own series.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    I had the same thought too, like maybe he was trying to appear neutral.

  • Kathryn (@Loerwyn)

    But it is Snyder, who brought us the “feminist” film Sucker Punch.

    Which was a sucker punch in that you thought it’d turn the tables when in fact it was basically more of the same with a dark filter, a terrible soundtrack and a masturbatory obsession with overly-long slow-motion and panty shots.

  • Rob Payne

    Yeah, but those are the the GOOD Fast and Furious movies.

  • Kathryn (@Loerwyn)

    Jaimie Alexander has the look, but there’s probably no way she could do this (I assume she’s in a longer contract with Marvel). I also think having her as Sif AND Wondy would be kinda crappy, too.

    Imagine just having one bloke for the major superheroes. Evans had a fair break between FF #2 and Cappy A, Affleck between Daredevil and this film, so they kinda don’t count.

  • Alyson L

    Not all of those are good examples – the changes to Two-Face and the Riddler were ridiculous. They also turned Penguin and Catwoman into mutants – which they aren’t in the comics.

    Ironman was out in the comics. Batman and Catwoman have pretty much always had a thing (in a different universe they were married and had a kid). Nick Fury had a race change awhile back in the comics before the movies.

    And yes, I want her to say – I am Wonder Woman.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Sure, but the A-listers, or the folks they had confidence in as A-listers, got their own movie.

    I mean, hell, how big of a risk was Thor? “Well, he’s a superhero who’s sort of a Norse god and sort of an alien deity, and there’s magic, but also science, and…what, people don’t know about him?” Even Iron Man was relatively unknown to the general public before his movie. Those were definitely risks, and pretty much “tricky” characters.

    It’s not that heroes never debut in someone else’s movie. It’s that:
    A) DC should have more confidence in their property to stand alone. DC is basically saying they don’t believe in Wonder Woman (or else they don’t believe in their ability to make her compelling on her own). Considering, again, that Marvel charged forward with absolute conviction in all of their studio movies thus far, it’s not an encouraging statement.

    B) It’s not just someone else’s movie–it’s TWO Someone Else’s movie. One of them being DC’s biggest cash cow, basically making a debut appearance (we’ve never seen This Batman yet).

    So far, the only Marvel heroes to make their debut in someone else’s movie are Iron Patriot/War Machine, Black Widow, and Hawkeye, none of whom Marvel initially intended to put out on their own.

    I love Natasha, but Wonder Woman isn’t Natasha. She’s a member of the Trinity, THE most iconic woman superhero, and DC should treat her as such.

  • Alyson L

    I enjoy Gadot in the movies but it would be nice for to add some muscle since WW doesn’t use guns but more physical face-to-face fighting. She is obviously trained from her time in the military but it would be nice to see some muscle behind the punch.

  • Rebecca Pahle

    I think the fifth and sixth movies are excellent, and I refuse to feel ashamed about that.

  • Laura Truxillo

    It’s just so pussy-footed. Like I said in a different reply, I think part of what’s made Marvel so mighty is the way they’ve charged in full throttle, with complete conviction in their heroes. Hawkeye is a B-lister (my favorite, but a B-lister) who probably won’t be seeing his own movie anytime soon. Diana should have better than that. She’s royalty, dangit.

    If Superman didn’t need to be “introduced” if Batman had a whole film franchise without being “introduced,” if Thor, Iron Man, Cap, and Hulk didn’t need it, Wonder Woman shouldn’t either.

  • Alyson L

    My first thought is that he seems to be in line with Whedon, who was supposibly looking at Morena Baccarin to play WW and they have a similar look.

  • http://groggybot.blogspot.com/ grog1138

    I agree that she needs some muscle for WW. I hope she’s not just a quick stand in.

  • Rob Payne

    No shame. Those movies are perfect at what they’re going for.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    Yeah, Snyder is the biggest red flag. Although, if Lois in Man of Steel is any indication, there might be more risk of Snyder damseling Wonder Woman than simple panty shots.

    There would be riots.

  • Laura Truxillo

    “did anyone believe Heath Ledger would be a good Joker”

    Yes. Vehemently. Because I was familiar with his acting and he had a lot of movies (including some smaller, very out-of-normal-character work) under his belt, and he’d shown his ability to adapt completely to a role.

    I still don’t like Keaton as Batman. It’s classic, but it’s camp.

  • Alyson L

    Same here.

  • Alyson L

    Same here. She does really well in her fight scenes in FF… would love to see that in the movie as well.

  • Rebecca R

    I just can’t believe the people on this board. What is with the collective hivemind Snyder hate? Yeah, he made a crappy movie in Sucker Punch, but you guys are all living in an echo chamber if you think Man of Steel had a ‘lukewarm’ reception among fans. It’s still one of the most successful franchise openers of all time (behind Spiderman and Iron Man I think), and made way more than Batman Begins, Thor, and Captain America. Yeah, the critics (including TMS) trashed it, but it was a pretty reasonable success among movie-going audiences, especially given that everyone seems to hear the name Zach Snyder and think the sky is falling.

    I just find this all disgusting. Man of Steel was a phenomenal movie, which gave us a real, empathetic, emotive Superman who didn’t have to rely on Shatnerian overacting to express emotion (I don’t know when subtlety became something we despised as audiences) and people had already decided to hate it before they saw it, then went into the theatre, fixated one or two ridiculous things (‘Superman doesn’t kill’ uh, yes he does, a LOT) (‘Too much violence! Property damage!’ … Have you read a Superman comic book recently? Does anything else ever happen when Zod comes to town, or any Kryptonian? Or anyone in Superman’s power league? Not to mention the whole Alien invasion technological attack thing.) (‘Superman would have spent more time saving people in his fight against Zod!’ No, that’s nonsensical. We’re talking about a Superman who does not exist in the DC Universe YET. He has no idea that there is anyone else on the planet who could hold a matchstick to Zod. As far as he knows, and he has a very good reason to think this, he is THE LINE between Zod and everyone else being dead. He has no time do anything but subdue Zod, and that unfortunately means other people suffer) (‘So many people died!’ Yeah, that’s what happens when two or more people like Superman fight. I know that the Marvel universe has been giving us beautifully glorious and santized violence for years, but that’s bullshit. Tony killed people in the first movie. Captain America killed a LOT of people in his first movie. Thor has almost certainly killed more people than the rest of the Marvel universe put together. Thousands of people had to have died in the battle for New York, but yuck yuck, Hulk Smash. Man of Steel gave us superhero violence with real consequences, and I’m sorry that disturbs you, but maybe you should ask yourself why that is and not blame the movie for poking holes in your idea that violence can be fun and exciting and not scary and horrible as long as its being done by Superheroes.)

    Everyone here just seems to want to pile on this movie just so that they can be the ones to declare it a crap fest FIRST so that if they wind up being right (and having declared that said movie is a crapfest before seeing it they will defend their argument with some ferreted out thing from the movie that they don’t actually understand but think justifies their position even in the face of thoughtful reasoned criticism from intelligent people all over the internet) they can crow about it for years to come “I called Man of Steel Two being a crapfest before it was cool!” You guys literally know NOTHING about the movie, every theory has been debunked BY SNYDER HIMSELF except Wonder Woman. All we know is that Batman will be IN the movie, working WITH (and not against) Superman and apparently Wonder Woman will show up. Who knows, maybe she’ll show up in a post credits scene ala Marvel movies? Maybe she’ll be scattered throughout the movie, as a person in the universe who – having seen Superman running around and doing superheroic things – begins to think ‘maybe I should do that too’ but the thing is WE DON’T KNOW. So why do you fear the movie? Because Snyder, that’s why. And that is really, really sad.

    Anyone who declares months before seeing any trailer or preview footage or photos of a movie that the movie looks like a crapfest is lying, because they have no idea what the movie looks like. Anyone who refuses months before seeing any trailer or preview footage to even see the movie in theatres is being ridiculous: ‘WAH, they didn’t call me to ask exactly how I wanted them to make this movie and who I wanted to direct it and who I wanted to start in it and what story I wanted them to tell, WAH. I’m protesting this movie because they didn’t cater to my individualistically specific interests even though I don’t know anything about the movie other than that a guy I dislike is directing it and people told me Man of Steel was bad so it was bad and I hate things that are bad!’

    I’m not even going to make an argument for ‘give the movie a try’ or ‘go rewatch Man of Steel with some textbooks on the nature of violence, feminism, and empathy’ although clearly lots of people need to do that. I’m just quitting your company. This site has over the last couple of years become a bitterly anti-intellectual, anti-innovative, anti-femme, pro-formulaic echo chamber, and I’m getting out of her to go back to where people are still saying smart things.

  • http://groggybot.blogspot.com/ grog1138

    Yes. She sells the action scenes really well and I never once thought about her physique until, I saw pictures of her on the net. I think I’ll retract my comment about needing to build some muscle.

    Just please don’t be a stand in. I think the next “Superman Movie” already has one too many heroes but, Gal Gadot as the first movie Wonder Woman… Please don’t be a quick cameo!

  • Pink Apocalypse

    I’m just going to say it.

    1.) Tall and powerful is a significant embodiment of the character.

    2.) No one would ever consider making such a drastic physical change to an iconic male character.

    3.) They’re violating this aspect of the character concept to appeal to male gaze that remains insatiable for the ‘hot young waif’ look.

    4.) Of all the possible actresses they could have chosen, I am sad and disappointed by this.

    Feel free to down-vote into oblivion.

  • http://www.lawlessgentile.com/ Ali Miller

    Yes, it’s a runaway train because:

    - DC/WB is trying to get to the “JUSTICE LEAGUE!” punchline without doing any actual work beforehand.
    - Man of Steel was not the resounding success it should have been.
    - Instead of focusing on making a better Superman movie, they are giving the sequel a dozen tangential hats to wear.
    - It doesn’t really matter that it’s not a Frank Miller remake; Zack Snyder still consulted with Miller to pick his brain about the characters (?! I can think of about a dozen writers they should have consulted first), and they proudly touted that Returns quote like it was part of some Batman/Superman Bible. Does not inspire confidence.
    - Zack Snyder.

  • Alexa

    I kind of wish they got an actress with blue eyes like Bridget Reagen, but whatever, still sucks she has to play second fiddle as opposed to getting her own movie. :(

  • Anonymous

    While I agree completely regarding your thoughts about Man of Steel (having had the chance now to see it four times I think it’s an excellent movie), I think this article (about Wonder Woman) isn’t necessarily the place for this post. And your final paragraph isn’t fair to Mary Sue readers who – while harboring some irrational hatred for Zack Snyder – certainly deserve more credit than to be labeled anti-intellectual, anti-femme, and bitter.

  • KryptoBunny

    “Well, they’re all Catholic. And the women are either hookers or strippers. And, uh, yeah. That’s about it.” BRAIN PICKED.

  • Anonymous

    And the superheros who’s origins are well known are well known because of… wait for it… movies.

  • Anonymous

    And the superheros who’s origins are well known are well known because of… wait for it… movies.

  • Louis Bamberger

    5′ 9″ is not actually that tall in comparison to Batffleck’s staggering 6′ 4″ and Cavil’s 6′ 1″. Granted you can use camera tricks to make her look taller, but that just seems like unnecessary work. I am not saying height is the only qualifier, but WW is supposed to be intimidating. WW won’t look all that intimidating when Bats is almost an entire head bigger than her. Unfortunately for her, even in the Fast/Furious she wasn’t all that convincing as this cold death machine.

    The only thing I like about this casting is that they actually chose a Woman of color. Other than that, this casting doesn’t mean anything. She has potential, I’ll give her that.

  • Louis Bamberger

    5′ 9″ is not actually that tall in comparison to Batffleck’s staggering 6′ 4″ and Cavil’s 6′ 1″. Granted you can use camera tricks to make her look taller, but that just seems like unnecessary work. I am not saying height is the only qualifier, but WW is supposed to be intimidating. WW won’t look all that intimidating when Bats is almost an entire head bigger than her. Unfortunately for her, even in the Fast/Furious she wasn’t all that convincing as this cold death machine.

    The only thing I like about this casting is that they actually chose a Woman of color. Other than that, this casting doesn’t mean anything. She has potential, I’ll give her that.

  • KryptoBunny

    Because she’s an Amazon, and even saying someone is “like an Amazon” MEANS they’re tall and imposing. And at any rate, she’s been fighting as long as she’s been able to stand. She’s a member of a warrior race, after all. Saying she doesn’t need to be tall and imposing is like saying Buffy doesn’t have to look like the blonde girls who always die in the beginning of horror movies.

  • http://www.commonplacebook.com electrasteph

    “Tall” is a Wonder Woman trait that practically every version/incarnation written has specifically identified as part of her physical description, so it would have been nice if she were 6 feet. I’m glad she’s at least 5’9″ though. Could have been worse.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve got no problem with this casting, especially considering Gal’s experience in action films and her experience in the Israeli Defense Forces (where she worked as a sports trainer, in addition to the typical military training you expect). Plus, she’s spoken about how proud she is of her Jewish heritage, she’s represented her country at Miss Universe, and her first acting role was a lead in television show. Pretty effing impressive, and certainly some experiences that she can draw upon to flesh out the character on screen.

    I think her ability to pull off physical and tough are at the bottom of the list of concerns for this movie. Oh, and she’s a mother who likes to ride motorcycles. I’m not sure you could do much better in terms of an actress with the spirit to play Diana. Give her a few months to put on some muscle, give her a decent costume, and many of the complaints will go away.

    My only two concerns about this film are that 1) it seems to be more of a Justice League set-up film than a proper Superman sequel, and 2) there are so many friggin characters being shoehorned into a film with Superman and Batman as the leads. What purpose does a half dozen cameos serve other than to unnecessarily rush WB toward that Justice League film they anticipate will be a billion dollar film.

  • St. Jason

    I get the disdain for Wonder Woman being introduced in Superman centered movie but if we remember the Avengers, the highest grossing movie of all time, were introduced as a cameo in iron man. I agree with some other commenters here that I don’t think its how she’s introduced that’s important but what they do afterward.
    Personally I liked Man of Steel and think Zach Snyder has a high respect for the source material of the comic movies he does and I believe him and Goyer have a plan in place. I think its clear they are trying to build a universe around all these characters with sequels and spin offs to come. I’d rather wait a couple more movies to get a great Wonder Woman movie rather than it be rushed and we get something on the level of Electra or Catwoman.
    It’s easy to fall into this fandom cynicism on these things but we really should give them a chance before we shit all over it. If its a hot mess we can call it out and cry foul, and not support it. But the fact is that Wonder Woman is going to be on the big screen for the first time ever, we could just be optimistic and happy for one moment about it.

  • KryptoBunny

    I just couldn’t help reading that Snyder quote as “I really want to make sex with her.”

  • Anonymous

    The problem with the Affleck casting isn’t that he will be playing Batman, it’s that he’s Ben Affleck. Maybe he’ll knock it out of the park, because there’s a first time for anything.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    I hadn’t even considered that they might show Themyscira. o_o

  • Louis Bamberger

    The only hero introduced in Iron Man was Black Widow, a character for which they had no plans of making a movie. They introduced the idea of Thor and Cap, but actors were not physically in those movies. That is the problem here. If WB did the same thing and were just going to mention WW in the movie, I would totally be fine with that. The problem here is that she is an afterthought in a movie that is about Supes and introducing Bats.

    All this move further proves is that WB is not confident in this character. Knowing this and that the first appearance WW will be as a third fiddle cameo in a Bats/Supes movie, makes it quite hard to be happy or optimistic.

  • Eric Xin

    Black and White don’t project hubris.

    If I walk around wearing all red, I can say “Oh I am wearing red by the corner of Main Street and Dex” Being the White Queen does not give us a quality that can affect the person.

    If I walk around and calling “Good guy Mike”, then it look stupid. By what right can I proclaim myself to be “good?” That is up to other people to judge by my actions.

  • Jenna Christensen

    She’s already spoken to Marvel and we know Feige wants to do a Captain Marvel movie. I’d be surprised if Sackhoff didn’t end up playing her. I’ll join you in that happy happy joy joy dance.

  • MeatyStakes

    Yeah, that’s a good point, she was just my fave between the candidates with the most buzz.

    I do hope that Gadot turns out a good WW, but beyond the actress, there’s just so much that can go wrong :/

  • SuperFubar

    If i worked at DC, the fan response from comment sections like this one would make me think Wonder Woman is a bad idea.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a difference between introducing because you need to or doing it because you want to. Nick Fury didn’t cameo to introduce the character but to get the Avengers hype going. I suspect Wonder Woman appearing in a Superman and Batman movie is not there to introduce herself as much as it’s about setting up the Justice League.

  • Anonymous

    In the moment WW becomes a supporting character in the next Superman movie a WW solo movie will be off the table. I would bet my right arm on that. WE WILL NEVER SEE WONDER WOMAN GETTING HER OWN MOVIE! and it’s a shame!

  • KryptoBunny

    While you’re correct about both Man of Steel’s reception and the nature of violence, you seem to fundamentally misunderstand Superman. To compare him to the likes of Iron Man, Thor, and even Captain America is unfair. Superman is something else entirely — not just a comic book superhero, but a symbol, an ideal that isn’t really comparable to anything. Traditionally, at least from the silver age through pre-New 52 DC, he didn’t kill. He also didn’t steal — something he does in one of the first scenes of Man of Steel –they call him Boy Scout, remember? Other heroes actually mock how cheesy and moral he is.

    One of the things Superman has come to symbolize is HOPE. The idea that killing was a line he wouldn’t cross has been a common theme in comics featuring him. Not peaceful solutions exactly, but solutions that used his great power to neutralize danger without killing. A nice thing to hope for in a world where such solutions are often impossible.

    (Note that in comic books, generally, if they don’t SHOW someone die, no one did. Yes, a building collapsed, but you’re generally not meant to assume anyone was actually IN the building. Ridiculous, certainly, but pretty standard.)

    But yes, there are lots of iterations of Superman. Snyder chose the darkest and dreariest, removed the hope and goodness he symbolizes, threw in some petty crime, some killing, some lame Christian symbolism and created something I absolutely flat-out loathed. I have absolutely every right, every well-thought out reason, to do so. You’re free to feel differently, of course.

    And that’s not even getting into the poor editing, dreadful script, plot holes, etc.

    It seems silly to argue for logic and intellectualism, to be alarmed that people would dare dislike a movie you enjoyed or a director you don’t hate, that they might have opinions other than yours because they have different criteria. If I dislike most of Snyder’s work, and flat-out hate some of it, what exactly would be logical about expecting something different from his next film?

  • Anonymous

    I was in my country’s army for a year but nobody would ever come on the idea that that would qualify me to become the next Batman or Superman. I’m hearing this argument concerning Gal Gadot popping off in the internet frequently but I’m just not buying it. It’s absolutely no argument that she’s able to play an Amazon princess.

  • J Ritchey

    While I agree that tall and powerful is probably the most appropriate way to portray her, it is more an exception than the rule–at least if you look at the history of the character in general. From Marston all the way through Perez, she was (ironically) more waifish than what we would think of as amazonian. That includes Linda Carter and the Super Friends. Showing Diana as more obviously powerful is a relatively recent trend, no matter how much of a no-brainer it seems now.

    Also, they have gone with that drastic a physical change with a male character. That’s how we ended up with rubber bat-suits. The reasoning at the time was just less suspect.

    I’d still prefer someone more like Carano, though.

  • Mark Matson

    300 was terrible. Those who think Sucker Punch depicted woman badly need to watch 300, which depicted men far worse.

    (Then again, my biggest complaint on Sucker Punch is we didn’t get to see the musical version.)

  • Anonymous

    Warners were expecting to make much more money. TDKR money. One may say that was unrealistic but in this respect the 700 mn Dollars MoS did were indeed some kind of a disappointment. That’s the reason why they are cramming Batman in the sequel. And now WW.

  • Mark Matson

    Batman is a strange one. Basically, anyone can play Batman. (Though size helps.) The question is how one plays Bruce Wayne. I liked Keaton myself. Remember, before then everyone thought of Batman as Adam West. Keaton *was* the dark Batman at the time.

  • Anonymous

    Maybe you would be correct if that was the only reason I presented for it being good casting. But what I actually said was that, in addition to the many other experiences of hers that I listed in the first paragraph, her time in the military would serve her well in creating a character on screen that is defined in large part by her experiences as a warrior.

    If you are going to dispute arguments in my post please at least respect the content and tone of my posts and don’t pick one point, attempt to re-contextualize it, and pretend that it invalidates my entire post.

  • Anonymous

    It’s not a question of being famous. Branagh knew Hiddleston because he was a successful stage actor and Hemsworth was known by Whedon (who suggested him) because of Cabin in the Woods. It’s not much but it’s more than Gadot, whose small part in Fast and Furious is the biggest thing she had.

    I’ll say it again: she wasn’t bad in those films but that’s very little preparation for a part that is considerably more iconic than Thor.

  • Anonymous

    There won’t be an own feature for WW. Not anymore. That chance died when they released the information that WW will be included in the next Sups movie. Mark my words. We will never ever see a single WW movie.

  • Anonymous

    I only have one answer for you: Where is that big Black Widow movie?

  • re M

    If he had omitted the word “female” and just said “one of the most powerful CHARACTERS of all time”, then I would have more hope for her place in this movie.

  • Anonymous

    Is this where I come to shout out, “Edward James Olmos as Darkseid!!!!” ?

  • Anonymous

    I never did saw Batman on the screen until Christopher Bale played him. It really is like that. I found every other actor playing the role before him totally miscast. So, I wouldn’t say that everyone could play Batman.

  • Brett W

    I doubt there will be enough screen time.

  • Mina

    Am I sad Wonder Woman still is not being introduced by way of her own movie? Yes.

    But I am ecstatic that she’s finally–FINALLY–being given an appearance in a feature film!

    And really, I’m not terribly worried about it. I’m not sure we have Snyder to blame for his past female character issues so much as the source material. A little miffed that this is probably just a small role for her, yes (if it’s not, then this movie sounds waaaay too crowded). But worried? No. I’m much more looking forward to this than not.

  • Anonymous

    But I DO pick that one point because it is constantly being used as an argument and I just say it: That point is absolutely irrelevant. And that’s for THAT argument. Not for entire post. If I wanted to dissect your entire post than I would have done it. But I didn’t wanted. I just wanted to say that this specific point you made there is irrelevant.

  • KryptoBunny

    I thought the same thing when I saw that trailer. She looks so imposing and powerful and womanly! And as much as I would love to see a big, tall, buff, Greek Wonder Woman, I think Eva Green would do an awesome job.

  • KryptoBunny

    I think it’s because Marvel plays in multiple universes all the time, and DC just dabbles. Plus, Marvel characters are considerably less iconic in general — or at least, they used to be. A discussion of Superman’s character wouldn’t be out of place in an American History class because he’s so hugely symbolic. The same can’t be said of any Marvel character.

  • Anonymous

    >1.) Tall and powerful is a significant embodiment of the character.

    >2.) No one would ever consider making such a drastic physical change to >an iconic male character
    Well, they did have Tom Cruise play Jack Reacher….

  • KryptoBunny

    I agree with you about 300 being an awful depiction of men, but Zack Snyder WROTE Sucker Punch — at least with 300 a fair bit of the blame can be thrown on Frank Miller.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    You’re welcome to do that anywhere, but please, by all means…

  • Anonymous

    If you wanted to pick just that one point to discuss, you could have easily done so in your own post rather than a reply to my post which addressed numerous factors. But you chose to reduce my post to a handful of words from the first sentence of a three paragraph post, which was lazy and disrespectful. I doubt you even bothered to read past that first sentence.

    And that point most certainly is NOT irrelevant, especially in the context of the entire post which, again, you seem to have failed to read. Actors use experiences from their lives all the time and I listed several experiences of hers – including past acting experience, to illustrate how her background makes her an inspired choice. Her years in the military are prime for portraying a woman who is an Amazonian warrior. How you can deny that is beyond me and seems like a weak nit-pick because you’re apparently unhappy with the casting.

  • Mina

    Meh, people have gotten Oscar noms off their debut roles. I’m not terribly worried just because she has a thin resume. It means we don’t already have much proof in favor of her capability, true, but we don’t really have much proof AGAINST it either. I really think this is mostly just a wait-and-see situation.

  • Anonymous

    Jack Reacher was an iconic character?

  • Anonymous

    Heck, they could always do the old movie tricks by having her stand on boxes, various other characters partly in holes. I mean, a fair portion of the time when the leading man in a movie is taller than the leading lady, he actually isn’t. It’ll be interesting if they pull the same tricks, make her as tall as or taller than BatFleck, for example.

  • Mina

    You think so? I’ve always thought the opposite: Anyone can play Bruce Wayne but the question is in how one plays Batman.

  • Anonymous

    I really hope they do camera tricks. Nice to see that reversed for once…

  • Brett W

    Taller than Batfleck? The man is 6’4″, plus whatever the height the ears on the cowl will add. Let’s not get carried away.

  • Pink Apocalypse

    I said it was significant. I made no argument about it being the rule.

    Going out of the way to point out ‘the rule’ is an indirect way to lend ‘weight’ to it over any progress made, and doing so leads straight down a rabbit hole.

    I’m fully aware of rubber bat suits. They were utilized to cater to male power fantasy, which is a completely false equivalency to female characters altered for male gaze.

    Carano would have absolutely been one of my first choices as well.

  • Anonymous

    I’m all for breaking convention and a strong featured woman is more than welcome, but where does general faithfulness to her comic book look come into play? Or was the comic book look typically Greek inspired and I’ve made a fool of myself? It’s just I think most male heroes are heavily inspired (in the face) from their comic book origins so I think it’s fair to do the same with females, albeit typically tone down the outfit for obvious reasons. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

  • Mina

    You know, I actually agree with your opinions on needless, baseless bashing of this movie. But damn, that was an unnecessarily harsh take-down!

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    As a fight fan, I love Carano. But acting? I’ve only seen her in Haywire and her voice was dubbed out, so I’m not too confident in her being able to carry that role. Is that a concern for you?

  • Pink Apocalypse

    Andie Macdowell was dubbed out of Greystoke. Hollywood decisions are not guaranteed to be sound decisions.

    Pun mostly not intended.

  • Anonymous

    I didn’t reduced anything, I just pointed out what I wanted to point out and you seem to be a little bit overly sensitive about your own argumentation. In any way, I do things my way and no one lectures me about how I have to things.

    Okay, here’s a new one you want like to hear: You neither have to have been in the army, been a contestant to the Miss Universe title be a mother or being able to ride a motorbike to play Wonder Woman. You have to look like the character and a good actress. Don’t know about the second but she definitely doesn’t look like Wonder Woman.

    Sean Connery was a Mr. Universe in the early 50s and he was in the army and partly did physical tough work before he became Bond in the 60 and you know what? Nothing of this qualified him for the 007 role. What qualified him for the role were the right looks and his acting talent. And as you are saying, I’m unhappy of her casting one could counter-argue why are you so easily willing to accept anyone who’s offered to you in a role, instead of showing some more grounded sceptisicm, hmm? I bet if they would have chosen any of the other two contenders you would probably also immediately have found a half dozen reasons in their personal biographies that would have qualified them to play the role of a Greek Amazon princess?

    Scepticism is more than justified if film producers don’t even care to cast someone who actually looks the part. There is absolutely no reason to ignore what the eyes can see.

    How about reading some WW comics so you know HOW THE CHARACTER ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE? Or is this suggestion to lazy and disrespectful?

  • St. Jason

    I don’t know why you feel that way, both the Electra and Catwoman solo movies came directly from female characters being introduced in a male characters movie first. I really see this as groundwork being laid to then bring Wonder Woman her own solo film.

  • St. Jason

    I was specifically talking about when they introduced Nick Fury at the end of Iron Man 1. which they introduced as a character. You are correct in that they just introduced the avengers as an idea and not casted as people yet but I felt the fact that they had a A list actor like Samuel L Jackson play such a small cameo showed they were serious about having the Avengers happen.

    We also don’t really know what Wonder Woman or any one else part in the Superman/Batman movie will be. Really we don’t even know the name. We were told it would be a rivalry at the reveal in the vain of the Dark Knight Rises but that was announced before a script had even been written. But as far as her playing third string we just can’t make that call yet.

    I also agree that I don’t think WB is confident in the character. I am a big Wonder Woman fan and my experience has been that even though Wonder Woman is by far the most recognizable female superhero generally people don’t know much about her. I don’t feel the general public knows her origin or even that a large portion of her mythos is the greek gods. The Wonder Woman TV show ended in 1979 so that means we have at least a couple of generations of people who have never seen a live action Wonder Woman. So I don’t think its a bad idea to introduce her as a cameo character first and give people a refresher on her mythology before having her star in her own solo film.

  • http://whiterosebrian.tumblr.com/ White Rose Brian

    As with Ben Affleck, I’ll wait and see how this casting
    choice turns out. I did expect someone more robust and statuesque,
    though.

  • Anonymous

    “I didn’t reduced anything” is in direct contradiction to “I just pointed out what I wanted to point out.” If you can’t understand how turning a post about how the totality of Gal Gadot’s background and experiences makes her a good casting choice for Wonder Woman into “the only important factor in casting her is that she has military experience” then there is no more to be discussed.

    When you want to dispute someone’s argument you don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing whatever it is you want to pay attention to…not if you want your own argument to be taken seriously. Had I only wanted to address her military experience I would have done just that and not also addressed her acting, her motherhood, and her hobbies.

    “In any way, I do things my way and no one lectures me about how I have to things.” This quote from you is juvenile and exactly why I don’t want you replying to my posts. If you prefer not to discuss this casting in an intelligent or respectful way you can do so without bringing my posts into it.

    And once again you seem to completely miss the point of my post. Not once did I say that military experience, Miss Universe experience, nor the ability to ride a motorcycle are compulsory to playing Wonder Woman. I said that they were experiences that would help her in the role. It seems to me that I’ve completely wasted my time responding to someone who is incapable of – or uninterested in – reading and understanding what it is they are replying to.

    To finish, your entire attitude is summed up in your second paragraph where you make it absolutely clear that the primary concern you have with Wonder Woman casting is how much the actress (pre-hair/makeup/workout/costume) looks like the character. Sad, and a prime example of the problem with fandom these days. And of course, like a troll, you attempt to dismiss my arguments by claiming that I’m unfamiliar with the comic or with how the character looks. So, yes, you are lazy and disrespectful and, most disappointingly, completely incapable of realizing it.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    I agree that it was a poor decision, but as a result, I have no sense of her acting capability (at least as far as her voice goes).

  • NickN

    I wonder what background they are going to use for Diana? We have Del Toro’s Justice League Dark movie possibly coming out when the stars align just right and he has time for (yet) another project. But the idea that it would be considered does show might not be as squeamish as Marvel is about having magic as actual magic.

    Going off of the prequel comic they had for Man of Steel, I really hope they don’t do something stupid like make Amazonians the descendents of Kryptonians or make Supergirl Hippolyta.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I’m with dibu, really. Christian Bale was the only time I saw Bruce Wayne. I think Keaton was just too down-to-earth of a guy. Bruce needs to come off as an arrogant, aloof playboy, and Keaton just came off as a scruffy 80′s charmer.

  • Anonymous

    This is pretty much why I’m not as worried about her casting as I was when Affleck was announced; I know what Affleck can and cannot do.

    But it all comes down to the first film for me: if the first film had not disappointed me the way it did, it would be a lot easier for me to give the benefit of the doubt.

  • Laura Truxillo

    But that’s still kinda my point–Wonder Woman shouldn’t be used as that. She should stand up as a hero in her own right, and on her own, capable of running a solo movie. She shouldn’t be the gimmick to tie things back to a larger story.

  • Laura Truxillo

    “but if we remember the Avengers, the highest grossing movie of all time, were introduced as a cameo in iron man”

    The Avengers is a group name. Thor, Cap, and Hulk got their own stand-alones. I mean, Thor.

    “I’d rather wait a couple more movies to get a great Wonder Woman
    movie rather than it be rushed and we get something on the level of
    Electra or Catwoman.”

    That seems like some sort of squiffy statement, the whole “either/or” thing. The alternative to Wonder Woman being introduced as a gimmick in someone else’s movie isn’t “B-Movie Wonder Woman.” There’s no reason they can’t lay the groundwork *now* for a strong, solo movie to introduce her. They just don’t want to. If anything, it feels like they’d rather rush to put as many heroes as possible into a movie.

    It’s easy to fall into fandom cynicism for the same reason that it’s easy for me to believe that a flaky friend will cancel plans at the last minute–you just get used to it.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Right, and both of those BOMBED to the point that no one wanted to touch ladies in superhero movies. Not really a good example of something the studios might be willing to do again.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Who?

  • Laura Truxillo

    Maybe…maybe we just didn’t enjoy the movie?

    “anti-intellectual, anti-innovative, anti-femme, pro-formulaic”

    Er…sure, buddy. Sure.

  • Anonymous

    I’m confused. Are you saying Lynda Carter was *waifish*??

  • Anonymous

    Woman of color? Israeli is a nationality, not a race or ethnicity.

  • Pomfelo

    I agree. It’s like they purposely chose someone who could not open a stand alone WW film as an excuse not to have one.

  • Anonymous

    One does not exclude the other.

  • J Ritchey

    Not properly waifish, but on an imaginary scale of waif to [what we would now picture as] Amazon, I’d put her closer to waif than the other.

  • Anonymous

    One does not exclude the other.

  • Anonymous

    I think you need a rewatch. :D

  • Ivan

    Gina carano is way too short to play w.w. Gal has the right height to portray her. People really need to drop this Gina Carano talk already.

  • Anonymous

    She so tiny and skinny, hope she gets more athletic and strong tbh by the time of the movie. She looks way too skinny

  • Ivan

    I actually believe putting Batman in this movie was very clever. Your correct, they’re racing to a justice league film. They have to introduce characters before hand some how . If you make a solo Batman film after man of steel 2 then that pushes back justice league another year or 2 , so just stick him in the man of steel 2 , problem solved.

  • BatiHoney

    I love her. She’s mediterranean, pretty, has a fierce look, and was in the Israeli military (and that was WHILE being a model. So badass). I’m sure that with some training to build up some muscle, she’ll be an awesome Wonder Woman. People need to stop whining about her being too skinny or thin… I have faith in her c:

  • http://www.facebook.com/nuuni.nuunani Nuuni Nuunani

    As someone who has never seen fast and the furious, is there anyone more familiar with the films who can say whether shes a good actor or not?

  • Anonymous

    One day I’ll get my Gina Torres Wonder Woman movie but for now I’m gonna cross my fingers and hope that Gal Gadot steals every scene in the Batman/Superman flick.

  • Ivan

    What does w.w look like? Remember the whole fictional character thing?

  • Ivan

    They’ll hire a stunt double if she’s not up to the task.
    ..

  • Ivan

    Yeah and gadot did the job fine. I have no problems whatsoever with this casting, great choice.

  • Amourah

    Less excited than before. I’ll keep dreaming of a Wonder Woman portrayed by Gina Torres or Gina Torres type. I loves me some Gina Torres.

  • Temmere

    I guess utterly, ridiculously, completely looking the part is just not good enough.

    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3888363520/nm2125623?ref_=nmmi_mi_all_pbl_34

  • Anonymous

    It’s a start. It’s obviously going to be more than a cameo if she’s the third character to be announced for the movie. We don’t even have a villain yet, so hopefully that’s a good sign. It’s disappointing that she’s going to be playing tagalong in someone else’s movie first, but hopefully it will lead to something more.

  • Anonymous

    Ok … lets count with me

    1-Supes X Bats

    2-Supes and Bats gets friend

    3-Supes character development (specialy as a reporter)

    4-Introducing a new villain

    5-Introducing Diana

    7-Supes and Bats meets Diana

    6-New villan vs Trinity

    This seems a little …. flooded for a movie, specialy considering how “complicated” is Diana’s origin story =P

    Or they might be jealous of Spidey villain fest way of flooding a movie xD

    Also, I kinda want to bet money that they will not develop the character even a little bit and then people will hate it and they will go “told ya” =(

  • Ivan

    Zach Snyder is one of the best directors in Hollywood, particularly for an action super hero movie.

  • Anonymous

    … it is an Actress. She has to prepare for the role.

    See Bale in The Machinist vs Bale in Dark Knight

    She can be Tall and Powerfull IF the people responsable for this movie wants it

    It is like when the internet will always ask for an actor that was bald recently to play Lex Luthor =P

  • Ivan

    Man of steel had it’s flaws, but it’s better than any marvel movie other than the 1st ironman. Avengers was great until the final battle scene, then it turned into a complete cartoon.

  • Anonymous

    iron man was NOT a popular comic or character really (he was known but he wasn’t your cap or spidey) and look at how they made that franchize amazing. Boo to your weak excuses movie people , booooo

  • Ivan

    Dude, I believe in conspiracies as much as the next guy, but come on. They’re not idiots at Warner bros, they’re gonna hire whoever they think will portray the character the best, end of story.

  • Jamie Jeans

    They had BEST bring their A Game writers for this! Get Gail Simone and Greg Rucka and George Perez in as consultants and writers and for god damned sake, spend some actual money on her costume!

    If a PORN COMPANY can make the crappy Nu52 look good in real life while working with a far smaller budget, then Warner Brothers has no damned excuse for being cheap in making her costume…

    And again, make that writing good! Because WW had better not be coming in as a sidekick or a fan or, god forbid, Superman’s girlfriend. >_<

  • Pink Apocalypse

    Thank you for stating the obvious as if I’m not aware of it (….) but you’re completely missing the point.

    Snyder’s bread and butter is extreme, to-the-point-of-cartoonish, ultra-gendered, hyper-masculine and hyper-feminine character portrayals in his movies. Do you seriously think he’s going to go out of his way to hire ‘hot young waif’ to appeal to the male gaze demographic, only to turn around and have her alter herself in a way that said demographic will (unjustly) find ‘masculine’ and off-putting?

    Let’s just say I’m skeptical.

  • http://skemono.blogspot.com/ Skemono

    Any bets whether she’ll have more or less screen time than the Lego movie’s Wonder Woman?

  • Raiden

    Halle-friggin-Lujah!

  • http://thexbridge.com Jeff Harris

    Technically, she’ll be the second Wonder Woman on the big screen. Cobie Smulders is playing her in The Lego Movie . . . I know, but it is a Warner Bros. production . . . but yeah, Gal will be the first live-action Wonder Woman in a major motion picture.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Eh, we have high standards. I for one am a lot happier about this casting than I was about Ben Affleck. I would have preferred Gina Torres or Morena Baccarin though.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    And whenever he’s directing. ZING!

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Disagree.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    I didn’t know of Hiddles but I knew of Hemsworth from several movies.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Lol, I have to rewatch it now. Thank you for potentially making a lackluster experience hilarious and heart-warming.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    So much this. They denied the very things that make Superman iconic! They wanted to use the popularity of the way they did The Dark Knight trilogy and Superman is almost an entirely different ‘genre’ of character than Batman.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Disagree. I’d watch any of the Avengers tie in movies a hundred times before I’d watch “Man of Steel” again.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    She’s a gymnast and had two years of Israeli military training. I think she can handle it. I really, really, hope they let her bulk up for the role, but considering the director and DC’s movies in general, I highly doubt it.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Surely ‘Wonder Woman’ can’t sound cheesier than ‘Captain America’ and I’m glad they honor the original name and costuming in the updated Cap movies.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Not remotely. Look how many people are emotionally invested in her! I would say people want to see her in a movie more than any other DC character who has not already been on the silver screen.

  • Carmen Sandiego

    Maybe she’ll be Captian Marvel. :)

  • Brett W

    People seem to forget that the Superman we see in Man of Steel isn’t fully formed. The character you’re talking about, that you want to see, doesn’t exist yet. He hasn’t been shaped yet. Man of Steel’s Superman is a greenhorn who just put on the costume and learned how to fly yesterday. It’s a little unfair to expect him to know how to do everything instantly. And it’s also a bit of a double standard to excuse massive property damage in cartoons and comics (there wasn’t anyone *in* those buildings! we didn’t *see* people die!) and then criticize Man of Steel when it rips that action right off the pages and puts it on the screen. It’s exactly the same. If the cartoons and comics get a pass, the movie gets a pass. If the movie doesn’t get a pass, then maybe we should re-examine the comics and cartoons. Regardless, when a fight between Superman and Zod goes down, buildings *will* be pancaked. It’s just how things are in the DCU. It happens like every other week.

    As for killing Zod, I think people make too much of that. There are those who argue he didn’t have a choice or that he was too inexperienced to see an alternative. And I can buy that. But consider another idea. Zod is not human. He’s Kryptonian. And as such, he would be (in theory) subject to Kryptonian law. (For the sake of comparison, note that SHIELD extradites Loki to Asgard instead of trying to keep him in a human prison.) But Krypton is gone. It’s only survivors are a group of criminals – and Superman. This sort of makes Superman Krypton’s de facto government, it’s only legitimate representative. And as such, he has full authority to pass judgment on Zod and even to administer a death sentence, which he had to since not only was Zod endangering human lives and explicitly state that he intended to keep doing so, but there was at that point no way to send him back to the phantom zone and he couldn’t possibly be kept in any prison on earth. Not only did Superman have no choice, he had every right to take Zod’s life. Now if Zod had been a human villain, Superman’s actions would have been out of line, though still forgivable given his inexperience. But Zod wasn’t human.

  • Anonymous

    We have 72 years of comics. Comics are a visual medium. I think we have at least an idea of what Wondy looks like.

  • Alexa

    I will give Gadot credit in that I’ve heard that she was in the Israeli army, so she has experience with being a soldier, but seriously Reagan just looks spot on. But really in the end the role sounds more and more like a glorified cameo, and it depresses me that the guy responsible for Sucker Punch is going to direct the first movie appearance of Wondy. Ugh, he’s probably a really nice guy and while not really a fan there are some great moments in his films, but with the slight exception of Lois Lane (even though her character was kind of superfluous) Snyder really doesn’t do well with female characters. Its just not his strong suit *shrugs* Plus the movie will probably just be one huge take-everything-way-too-seriously fest. And rant over, sorry about that…
    :)

  • MeatyStakes

    A gymnast is a good choice for Catwoman, not really for Wonder Woman. I think I just don’t want to see Wondy go in the way of the Wai-fu; it’s just not right for her character.

    And yeah, not really catching my breath to them bulking Gadot up, I think that beyond the actress (who might give an excellent performance, we don’t know) is the dissapointing thing.

  • MeatyStakes

    unless they pasted her head digitally on a double, I don’t see how that would even help; it’s not about the stunts (logic dictates she will be doubled in those) but there’s no way of faking the musculature.

  • SCP3

    She’s a decent height (there were a couple of actresses being floated out there that would have looked ridiculous next to the over 6 foot tall Cavil and Affleck), Eastern Mediterranean, which gives her the right look, and has shown she can kick butt on the screen. She does need to work on her arms and shoulders, however: I’ve seen some pics of her sleeveless and while she looks good, the word “Amazon” is not one that leaps readily to mind. If you look closely, you can even see it in the picture above: her forearm looks bigger than her upper arm, and that’s not a look you want for any superhero, male or female, not named Popeye.

  • Laura Truxillo

    “Avengers was great until the final battle scene, then it turned into a complete cartoon.”

    And…what? I like my superheros fun. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the finale battle in Avengers. It was *fun.*

    But Man of Steel, I didn’t enjoy. That’s fine, y’know. It had it’s flaws, as you say. Avengers had it’s flaws. The flaws in Avengers made you not like it; the flaws in MoS made me not like it.

  • J Ritchey

    5′ 9″ is “the right height,” but 5′ 8″ (according to imdb) is “way too short?”

  • Laura Truxillo

    ” Because WW had better not be coming in as a sidekick or a fan or, god forbid, Superman’s girlfriend”

    Oh, hey, I just realized–she can, y’know, provide conflict because Clark will have Feelings for her, but also for Lois. Perfect!

  • silvergray

    “Arguably”

    It’s the right word. We are arguing and debating right now on this very topic. Word choice justified.

  • silvergray

    “2.) No one would ever consider making such a drastic physical change to an iconic male character.”

    Wolverine is tiny in the comics. Buff but tiny…

  • César Riquelme

    I’m sorry but no you won’t … unless somehow travel between dimension became possible for us and you are lucky enough to found one universe were that movie was made…

  • MrONegative

    Please tell us how you could make a Black Widow film, that wouldn’t just be Agents of SHIELD the movie.

    She’s not that type of character. She doesn’t have that kind of rogue’s gallery, abilities to distinguish herself and propel a feature film, or side characters and missions that could rise to a Capt America/Thor/GotG/Iron Man level of action.

    They’re swinging for a billion every time.

    Now if they had Wonder Woman….

  • Anonymous

    I’m glad there’s going to be a Wonder Woman, but… yeah, apparently she’s too tricky of a character to get right in a movie dedicated to her. Resolving those “tricky” aspects of her in a movie where she gets third billing, and that also has to re-introduce Batman? Not a problem apparently.

  • Anonymous

    Would you say the James Bond films are “just” MI6 movies?

  • Ivan

    Gina just dosent fit the role for me in any way shape or form, but because she’s tough and can fight people want to see her as wonder woman. We’ll disagree on this one.

  • Ivan

    I Actually liked the avengers, i just didnt need to see black widow jumping on captain americas shield onto a flying craft with one arm, and other cartoonish scenes. Regardless, the film made over a billion dollars and marvel dosent give a crap what i think so that’s that. As far as the serious tone of dc and warner bros goes, that’s why i watch their films, its a nice change of pace from marvel.

    I know when i see a marvel film it’ll be light hearted with maybe a funny joke or two and alot of lame ones. I know when i see a dc film it’ll be a more seroious take on the characters. Its not a critisism, the balance is a good thing, and to each their own.

  • Ivan

    I’m glad you typed this all up, you used sound logic. I liked man of steel an own the dvd. It’s far from a perfect movie no question about that, but snyder and the movie takes way too much critisism.

  • http://adventureinepisode.tumblr.com/ DarthBetty

    My reaction was mostly a “omg they could have done so much worse. How did they NOT do so much worse?” So I completely agree with you.

    I was reacting also to the fact that she beat out Elodie Yung and then was even more surprised that they were even considering Elodie Yung who was one of my favorite parts of District 13: Ultimatum and has been studying karate for 10 years…okay now I’m a little upset they didn’t pick Elodie Yung.

  • Jamie Jeans

    Don’t give those idiots ideas…

  • Jonathan Michaels

    ….and she’s two inches taller than Gadot.

    I approved of the Affleck casting but I knew it would create a problem with casting Wonder Woman.

  • Jonathan Michaels

    It’s why the Megan Fox rumors years ago infuriated me.

  • Laura Truxillo

    But Jamie, she’s a woman. In an action movie. As a tertiary character. How ELSE can she justify her presence, than as a provider of romantic tension.

    Hey, maybe Clark and Bruce will both be interested in her!

  • Laura Truxillo

    Okay, so…Man of Steel *isn’t* better than any Marvel movie except for Avengers then? Since this is all a discussion of personal tastes and not one of technical prowess and well-executed storytelling?

  • Jonathan Michaels

    Which is why I can’t understand the Batfleck hate, do we really think Affleck can’t play Bruce Wayne?

  • http://ptwor.com/ Jay Salinas

    This puts some needed perspective in my outlook on WW’s addition to the film. Still, I don’t consider Gadot to be a talented actress, so I’m less than excited for her involvement.

  • http://ptwor.com/ Jay Salinas

    Maybe it’ll be like at the end of Thor 2, but with Batfleck introducing Supes to WW and Flash, “Welcome to the Justice League”

  • http://ptwor.com/ Jay Salinas

    she’s not. Her crowning achievement in the film is walking 20 feet in a skimpy bikini. That’s as objective as I can possibly be.

  • Ivan

    i originally said better than any marvel movie other than the first ironman, thats just how i feel about it.

  • Ivan

    i originally said better than any marvel movie other than the first ironman, thats just how i feel about it.

  • http://ptwor.com/ Jay Salinas

    But, but she can’t act!

  • Charlie

    Stop that. You are destroying my life force. D:

  • Carmen Sandiego

    I agree about the gymnast training but at least it shows in general that she’s good at training physically.

  • Anonymous

    SHHHHHH! LET ME DREAM DAMMIT.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    A few things.

    Samuel L Jackson was the basis for the rebooted Nick Fury of the 90s, so when they went to do the movies, it wasn’t about getting “an A List actor for a small part” it was paying homage to Jackson’s inspiration to the character.

    In addition, Jackson is literally the most money making (for the studios) actor in Hollywood, because he will do ANYTHING. So getting him for that post credits cameo isn’t that big a coup for Marvel.

    As far as people not being THAT familiar with Wonder Woman, that’s true, BUT a) NOBODY had heard of Tony Stark an Iron Man before the movie came out, so that doesn’t matter if you care about making a good movie and b) we may not have had a live action Wonder Woman, but we have had Xena, so it’s not like the idea of a super powered woman from Greece mythology is UNHEARD of in Western Culture.

  • Anonymous

    In the current DC film ‘verse, I suspect they’re likely to put her in five inch heels.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I’m just tired of people pulling out the “What about Heath Leger” every time folks have an objection to superhero casting, because IMHO, the two aren’t comparable. Waiting to see what Ledger–a tried actor with several different kinds of characters, many of them drastically different from one another (seriously, compare A Knight’s Tale, Brothers Grimm, and Lords of Dogtown, and you’d swear they were different actors, almost)–isn’t the same was waiting to see what an actress with virtually no roles (and most of those very similar and lackluster) to her name will do with The Most Iconic Lady Superhero. People who made a fuss about Ledger were generally folks who only knew him from playing prettyboy teen heartthrobs and “the gay cowboy movie,” but he had plenty of work out there that made forming an informed opinion about him and his skill plausible.

    Folks who were apprehensive generally didn’t know about how well he could adapt to roles, which is different than, say, folks who are iffy about Affleck as Batman feel that way because they’ve seen a good sampling of his work and feel that he pretty much always plays Affleck.

    I’m not against giving her a chance (although I don’t trust Snyder not to go the “waif-ish” direction with her, which is annoying but not on her). I’m not thrilled with this whole mess. Mostly, though, I’m just tired of people trotting out the: “BUT HEATH LEDGER” cry whenever folks have legitimate apprehension over a casting decision.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    I’m just mad they cast someone who can’t fly to play Superman, HAVEN’T THEY READ THE COMICS?!?!?!?

    (this was shamelessly stolen and paraphrased from another comment on another site, if you read this, that was the funniest shit I saw all day today, A)

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    She is 5’9″ HOW FREAKING TALL DOES SHE HAVE TO BE?

  • MrONegative

    Because, James Bond is the Black Widow of his universe?

    Would that make Q, Iron Man?

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    “Tony killed people in the first movie. Captain America killed a LOT of
    people in his first movie. Thor has almost certainly killed more people
    than the rest of the Marvel universe put together. Thousands of people
    had to have died in the battle for New York, but yuck yuck, Hulk Smash.”

    Yes, and NONE of those characters has nearly 100 years of comic history GOING OUT OF HIS WAY TO NOT KILL PEOPLE, so way to miss the point. Also, it’s been calculated, the damage done to Metropolis and NY in those movies, and sorry Man of Steel was grossly overdone and extreme to say the least.

  • Annika Raaen

    In general, yes, you’re absolutely right! I personally know two women in the Army who have this woman’s physique and they would kick my fat ass so hard. LOL But this isn’t about this actress’ ability to kick ass, as I’m very sure she can. It’s about fitting into the mold of a character that has been in our culture for over 70 years. When you’re trying to cast for an established character, it’s hard to convincingly cast someone who doesn’t have a similar physicality. As my husband said last night, you wouldn’t cast Kevin Smith to play Superman. His physicality just doesn’t match the character’s, even if Kevin Smith could see through walls and fly. Spiderman’s body, for instance, is lean and less muscular than most superheros, so they rightly refrained from casting someone with a lot of bulk. Do you see what I’m saying?
    I don’t want to disparage Gal Gadot’s body, because I don’t know her…I don’t know what she’s capable of, but that’s not what I care about. I care about how closely she resembles WW.
    That said…we’ll see how it all plays out. Maybe she’ll be the spitting image. Who knows. It’s Hollywood. :)

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Affleck works well if he’s directed well. IMO, there are three directors who can direct him well(Kevin Smith, Gus Van Sant, and Ben Affleck) and none of them are directing this, so I have little hope.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    There’s a good article here, that talks about why this is trap.

    http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2013/12/05/heres-how-you-ruin-wonder-woman-for-the-movies/

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Yeah, Wonder Woman is NOT Nick Fury.

  • Anonymous

    I found Man of Steel pretty boring except for Faora-Ul, but even her awesomeness would not convince me to buy a repeat ticket. I love DC comics, especially the new 52 series, but the DC movie franchise has just not built the foundation and comic-verse like Marvel has — that’s what made the Avengers movie so amazing (I watched it 3 times in the theater and purchased as soon as it was released). It had been a slow build since the first Iron Man. Just like a comic series, you wait for the next tie-in. Man of Steel was a disappointing and isolated stand alone.

  • DQ

    Lynda Carter is 5’11″. On what planet is that “tiny” for a woman? She also had some fair muscle on her.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Whedon was not involved with the Marvel movies when Hemsworth was cast as Thor.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Just because a skilled writer/director, with a KNOWN talent for handling a dazzling ensemble cast could do it, doesn’t mean Zach Snyder can do it, and I say this as someone who LIKES Sucker Punch.

  • http://runt.org/ Adrian

    I was referring to her thin body, not her height, when I said “tiny,” that’s all. She is definitely tall!

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pYil-eV3xOg/Tj4NKSFYuPI/AAAAAAAAFVg/TxZNBzA59JA/s1600/Lynda-Carter-la-mujer-maravilla-fotos.jpg

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Yeah, but punching power doesn’t come from muscles, it comes from rotation, and her background as a gymnast will help with that.

  • MeatyStakes

    Bottom line, it could be worse! much worse.

    So I’m just going to hang on and wait; but truth be told, I’m really not very pumped out for this movie since it was announced.

  • Alyson L

    Actually her time in the military would help with that more then being a gymnast – Israeli soldiers learn hand to hand combat as a requirement.

  • Anonymous

    He wasn’t officially but according to Wikipedia (which is not 100% reliable, I know), he’s the one who proposed him so it’s possible he was already in talks for the Avengers.

  • Mark Brown

    Or Hellboy.

  • KryptoBunny

    Marvel plays far, far better as a cohesive world than DC does, though, and I think some of that is because they don’t have “legendary” characters (of the same caliber, at least) to deal with. Marvel has better organization, better editors, and better management all around, too. DC can produce individually awesome books, but Marvel is more solid all around (seems to me).

  • KryptoBunny

    I totally agree about the property damage double-standard. I was just pointing out that when Superman is shown busting through buildings in comics, it’s not meant to mean that he’s killing people, even if it seems like he must be, something important to note if you’re claiming, as I was, that post-Silver Age pre-New 52 didn’t kill.

    I also absolutely see what you’re saying about Zod, and I think it’s a valid explanation even if it isn’t what I personally would choose to do. In a movie where Clark was portrayed as the slightly saccharine, morally upstanding guy he usually is, I think his killing Zod could even have a lot of meaning. Unfortunately, the Clark shown is morally ambiguous from the start, and I think that’s a major mistake. The filmmakers seem to assume that a genuinely “good” character won’t be interesting to us — but to make Superman — the prototypical superhero — an antihero does an incredible disservice to the legacy of the character. It’s not just what Superman does that I’m opposed to, it’s what Clark does, because they’re the same person (unlike, arguably, Bruce Wayne and Batman, for example). Superman is an idealized mirror of humanity. Treating him like Batman just doesn’t cut it.

  • Brett W

    I don’t think they intended to treat Superman like Batman in the sense that you’re implying. He isn’t driven by darker emotions and impulses harnessed towards a good purpose, like Batman is. Granted, we obviously have different views, but when I look at Superman in Man of Steel, I see a guy who wants to do the right thing for its own sake, who wants to find that straight and narrow path and to shoulder the burden of responsibility… but he doesn’t quite know how yet. He’s still struggling, like we all struggle. He’s still an idealized mirror of humanity, not because he always makes the right choice, but because in a world where so many people don’t even consider the moral implications of their choices, he does. He carefully considers them. He agonizes over them. He makes a conscious and determined decision to do the right thing, whatever that may be. Sometimes he has lapses of judgment and screws it up (*cough*crucified 18-wheeler*cough*). He doesn’t have all the answers, and sometimes he doesn’t know what to do. But he’s determined to get down in that grey moral mud, not to wallow in it like so many do, but to painstakingly sort out the white grains from the black ones. In a way, I find that example more compelling than a Superman who gets it right every time.

    Batman, by contrast, is different. Rather than seeking the right thing for its own sake, Batman’s motivation comes from a very dark place. Pain. Anger. Despair. Someone hurt him, and he’s dedicated his life to making sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else. He’s using his negative emotions to drive him towards a worthy goal. That’s where I see the distinction. Their motivations are different. People say Man of Steel is a “darker” Superman movie, and it is. But it’s not because Superman himself is necessarily darker. He’s not motivated by negative emotions like Batman is. Rather, the world *around* him is what’s darker. It’s not the world of Reeve’s Superman, where a flying man in tights shows up to save the day and people just accept it. (And I’m not knocking the Reeve films. Well, not the first two anyway.) It’s a more complicated world. A world where decisions have weight and everything can’t be fixed with memory-erase kisses or flying backwards around the earth. The world is what’s grittier. Superman is trying to dig through the rubble, find the good, and then hold it aloft as a shining beacon to the rest of the world. But there’s an awful lot of rubble to sort through. And not only is that a worthy example to follow, it’s relatable too. Wanting badly to do the right thing, but being unsure what that might be.

    So I would say Clark is still a “good” character. He just doesn’t have that wisdom and maturity that we’re used to seeing Superman have, because that’s something that comes with experience.

    Are you tired of my pseudo-philosophizing yet? xD

  • Anonymous

    Black Widow has all the same powers and abilities Batman has, but he seems to manage to propel feature films just fine.

    Or to put it another way, you’re spouting bollocks.

  • Gary Keyes

    To me, this smacks of desperation on DC/Warner bros side. They saw the billions racked in by Marvel/Disney and thats why the immediately made the jump to “include” batman, Woder Women and possibly Flash in the next Superman film (is this really a “Superman Lives” sequel or “JLA Begins” film?). I also agree with Laura, that WW souldn’t be used as a gimmick to have her link the characters and lead up to JLA movie. It’s silly. Wonder Woman is part of that pantheon of heroes of the DCU, not something just thrown in for what reason, Zack? IMO, there should have been a WW film three or four years ago–a stand alone film (Since Nolan would’ve balked at another character “sharing” his serious Batman universe; DC/Warners gave way too veto power over how their super hero films would be made. Once again–IMO). Well, it’s going to be awhile until this mess comes out. In the meantime, I can’t wait for CAP2: Winter Soldier; that looks to give The Avengers film a run for it’s money(Redford in super hero film? I would’ve never thunk it who himself couldv’e portrayed Steve Rogers say 50 years ago!).

  • Roberta

    I am afraid I would disagree on your second point. Wolverine in the original comics is portrayed as actually rather short, and well, wolverine-ish. But Hugh Jackman is quite a tall man, or at least not short. And they completely changed Fury’s character for Samuel L Jackson, which most of us were ok with (it being Jackson and all). Hollywood does make changes to male AND female characters all the time. Though I will agree that they tend to cookie-cutter female characters more often.

  • Anonymous

    Just the sort of answer I was looking for, thank you.

  • Charlie

    Apparently Winter Soldier is going to heavily feature Black Widow so I’m very excited for that. I really like Captain America, oddly most of my male friends don’t, much preferring Thor or Stark.

  • sean

    Whether we want to admit it or not we all love Gina Torres.

  • sean

    Whether we want to admit it or not we all love Gina Torres.

  • http://www.aeryllou.tumblr.com/ Aeryl

    Tony is the Han Solo of the Avengers universe.

  • Brett W

    That’s an overstatement. Yes, both characters are experts in stealth, infiltration, combat, tactics, and interrogation, but that’s about where the similarities end. Black Widow is very much a specialist. One of Batman’s defining traits, however, is that he’s good at *everything* (depending on the writer). He has Black Widow’s skills, Tony’s skills, and Cap’s skills all put together.

    That said, Black Widow’s skill set isn’t what stands between her and a movie. I’d say it’s more a matter of her not really having any arch-enemies, a supporting cast, or story arcs of her own. Because she’s always been a supporting character to my knowledge.

  • Anonymous

    There’s more to the character than just look. Besides, Christian Bale was filming The Machinist when he auditionned for Batman Begins. If could gain the necessary weight, so can Gadot and Green.

  • MeatyStakes

    Miss Carter’s portrayal, although lovely and deserving of recognition, is dated and a product of its era.

    Wonder Woman has evolved as a character, filling much more of an outright warrior archetype (both in characterization and appearance)in the past 2 decades.

    Linda Carter’s portrayal had its place, both on its own right and as a stepping stone, but that was 40 years ago and Wonder Woman, in addition to be about truth, kindness duty and honor, is a warrior amazon princess, and that has not been portrayed in live action faithfully, ever if I might say so.

  • Laura Truxillo

    ” I think the greater point is that I don’t trust Zachary Snyder and David S. Goyer to deliver anything that will make me happy.”

    That, I can give a sad, “I know that feel” fistbump to.

  • MrONegative

    That’s still ignorant. Batman is one of the 3 most iconic superheroes ever.

    You’re not understanding. Marvel is a collective. They’ve built this giant comic book movie machine, predicated on the idea that it’s a major event, every single film. They’re aiming at a billion every time now. And they only make so many a year, with the aim of each being fully distinct from the next.

    That’s why we’ll never get a Black Widow OR a Hawkeye film, because they’re just too lo-fi, their rogue’s galleries are barren, and their types of films wouldn’t have the marketability of any of their other projects. I mean, Jason Bourne was the biggest and best new espionage hero of the last decade, and its last film only made $450M worldwide. Salt made $300M with the biggest female movie star on deck.

    James Bond is an institution. When he comes onto the screen, you know it’s the height of his genre. You act as if I’m saying it’s not possible to make a good Black Widow film, worth watching. I’m not. I’m saying there’s almost no distinction between the type of story you’d get from a Black Widow film and an Agent of SHIELD episode.

    It isn’t to put down ScarJo or the character. It’s to say that, every one of these has more or less been an end of the world, big CGI deal. I don’t know how you build that around a character with no powers. How do you do that without it just being a SHIELD movie? And if it’s not a SHIELD movie, how is it not too lowkey for what Marvel is aiming at? And how does that steal one of their 2 spots for Marvel films a year? How do you convince people it’s a bigger event than “oh, I should check that out when it’s on Netflix?”

    If there’s ever gonna be a female Marvel superhero flick, I think it’s gonna be Captain Marvel. The best chance for a Black Widow film, I think, would’ve been had they somehow predicted how well received her character would be ahead of time, and put together a film for her, for the fall of 2012.

  • Anonymous

    Congratulations, you’ve graduated from bollocks to bullsh1t.

    The only reason Batman is as prominent as he is is because of the tv series and films, the comics while important culturally were never that huge. James Bond also, yes the books are considered moderate classics but it is the films that made him famous. What you are effectively saying is that because Black Widow isn’t there yet, because she has no films, she should never be given films. That is ****ing absurd. Give her a good film, write her a brilliant spy thriller and it will do well. That is all. I mean by your logic Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy should have failed because George Smiley is a boring old man who doesn’t do much at all.

  • MrONegative

    Congratulations. You skim decently well.

    Had you read all of what I wrote, you’d understand that I never said there couldn’t be a successful Black Widow film. Any Marvel Cinematic Universe film is gonna be successful at this point.

    I’m saying:

    1) They are aiming much higher than what a Black Widow film would do. She’s lo-fi. No powers, no real means to powers, unless you greatly alter her to give her one. No known bad guys. You’d basically have a female Jason Bourne, which could do well, but Marvel is looking for $500M+ every time now.

    2) How would you separate her from SHIELD? Because any smaller SHIELD story should be on the show, and any bigger SHIELD story should be Avengers 2. And since she’s a strong part of the Avengers, how do you make a film of hers that isn’t just a prequel to Avengers 2, w.o the big battles and superteam?

    3) Their scheduled is packed with those bigger superhero films. Marvel made it clear that they’re only releasing up to 2 films a year, and they’re scheduled through 2017, with the likes of Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Ant-Man on deck.

    I’m not saying a Black Widow film couldn’t happen. I’m saying the best window for it to happen was the fall of 2012. But now…after Iron Man 3 and Thor 2 set the bar even higher for how much they want each Marvel movie to make, a spinoff of a SHIELD agent without powers is not something they’d choose over the other bigger potential superheroes they have on deck. I mean, they wouldn’t even make a Daredevil film.

    I think a female-lead solo MCU film that could stand shoulder to shoulder with the others is Captain Marvel.

    Odds are the best way for Black Widow to go forward is to join Captain America and try to steal the show, the same way Loki steals the show from Thor, and then…who knows.

  • comicbookfanwayback

    I’m betting she’s intro’d as an
    acquaintance of Bruce Wayne. The are an unofficial “Item” in Justice
    League (animated series/brave and the bold).

    The
    character of Diana Prince/Wonder Woman holds her own with any/every one else in
    the JL. She deserves/Commands the same respect they get.

    I
    can buy off on a “society function” intro if its done right and it
    leads into her own movie. Thor got a hammer in the ground after the credits in
    another movie.

    They
    had better pull in Linda Carter as an adviser/consultant. She ROCKED and
    defined the role of Wonder Woman and everybody out in TV Land is expecting as
    good or better.

    Warner
    Bros/DC…you on notice. You screw this up and I promise I won’t so much as
    watch it on DVD Rental. No Tickets. No popcorn, soda…nothin!!

    The
    character (and all the females she represents) deserves the best.

  • Anonymous

    1) Bollocks, there is no reason that just because she doesn’t have superpowers she can’t have an excellent story. The MCUs success so far has not been because of the brilliance of the characters but the excellent writing, acting and general production values/ Give that to Black Widow and there is no reason she won’t do as well as the others.

    2) Bollocks. She’s primarily a solo agent, even the show hints at this when it says she never has extraction plans. She can have some SHIELD backup, no more than is already going to be in Winter Soldier.

    3) Antman? The guy who doesn’t even create Ultron in the MCU as is an utterly pointless b-lister as a result? Or Guardians of the Galaxy? Sorry, but you’re spouting bollocks again. If they wanted to make an excellent Black Widow film they could, they don’t want to because Hollywood are a nunch of misogynist ****s. That is the issue here, not that a BW film is difficult or wouldn’t be profitable, that’s jsut the usual crap thrown at female lead films.

    I’m not expecting a Black Widow film either, I agree Captain Marvel is more likely and I really, really want that to happen. But it isn’t because Black Widow is difficult or a spy thriller with her couldn’t be successful, it’s because the people at Marvel Studios are men who want to tell the stories of men.

    Nothing personal by the way, I just feel very strongly about the lack of female representation in the MCU given how strong it is in the comics and I just don’t buy the excuses given.

  • Maus Merryjest

    And once again the incompetence at DC rears its ugly head.

    Here’s a tip, DC: Let Azarello write the screenplay, and let Joss Whedon cast the movie.

  • Natalie Willoughby

    Damn. I really wanted her to be a giant brown-skinned amazon lady. Oh well. At least it’s not Megan Fox.

  • https://www.dlisted.com/ AGuest

    Wonder Woman looks like someone who works out, is muscular, and can bench press a car while remaining completely feminine.

    Gal Gadot looks like the bench to be pressed. She is not muscular, she is not athletic, she is so bony you can see the ribs of her chest. She’d make a good Holocaust survivor extra — someone who needs saving — but not Wonder Woman, someone who does the saving.

  • https://www.dlisted.com/ AGuest

    What does her being Israeli have to do with anything, especially being a ‘win’?