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More Shipping Talk From the J.K. Rowling Interview That Broke The Internet


Harry Potter fans, you’ll always remember where you were and what you were doing the first time you heard about The Interview. You know, the one where J.K. Rowling said the Hermione/Ron relationship was “wish fulfillment,” and the two of them never should have ended up together. Well it turns out that particularly incendiary quote was part of a larger Wonderland Magazine interview (conducted by Emma Watson, by the way) that has since popped up on MuggleNet. In addition to Rowling talking about Hermione/Ron and Hermione/Harry, she also addresses the upcoming Harry Potter stage play and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them series. If you’d rather not jump back into the maw of ship wars, skip to the bolded text.

Rowling added to her “wish fulfillment” comment that Hermione/Ron is:

“…a young relationship. I think the attraction itself is plausible but the combative side of it… I’m not sure you could have got over that in an adult relationship, there was too much fundamental incompatibility. I can’t believe we are saying all of this – this is Potter heresy!”

Yes. Yes, it is. That said, people do engage in “young relationships” that grow and mature as its participants do, and Rowling admitted that that could be the case with Ron and Hermione. “Maybe she and Ron will be alright with a bit of counseling, you know,” she explained, before musing, “I wonder what happens at wizard marriage counseling? They’ll probably be fine. He needs to work on his self-esteem issues and she needs to work on being a little less critical.”

Rowling went on to talk about the individual characters, namely how “Ron’s used to playing second fiddle… but at a certain point he has to be his own man, doesn’t he?” and that Hermione “has a real weakness for a funny man. These uptight girls, they do like them funny… It’s such a relief from being so intense yourself — you need someone who takes life, or appears to take life, a little more light-heartedly.”

But lest you’re feeling too happy right now, Hermione/Ron shippers, Rowling also addressed the lightning-bolt-scarred elephant in the room: Harry. There’s nothing to say that Hermione has to end up with one or the other character, or even with anyone, but those who lived through the LJ days when the books first came out (god, typing that makes me feel old) will recall a very distinct either/or mindset that permeated a lot of fandom. Apologies in advance for the flashbacks:

“In some ways Hermione and Harry are a better fit and I’ll tell you something very strange. When I wrote [Deathly] Hallows, I felt this quite strongly when I had Hermione and Harry together in the tent! I hadn’t told screenwriter [Steve] Kloves that and when he wrote the script he felt exactly the same thing at exactly the same point… And actually I liked that scene in the film, because it was articulating something I hadn’t said but I had felt. I really liked it and I thought that it was right. I think you do feel the ghost of what could have been in that scene.”

The scene in question would be the “tent scene,” which was an island of Hermione/Harry shippery in a series that, of course, would eventually have Hermione/Ron as its endgame. Rowling goes on to talk about how “Hermione was the one that stuck with Harry all the way through that last installment, that very last part of the adventure. It wasn’t Ron, which also says something very powerful about Ron.” That’s more commentary about individual characters than ships, of course, though shippiness can always be read into E VE R Y T H I N G.

It irks me a bit the way Rowing seems to not like Ron all that much, but hey, to each their own. As for the ship aspect, I have no horse in this race. Remus/Sirius was my HP pairing of choice, so I’m well used to having a ship that should be canon (*waves fist the air angrily*) maligned by its creator. (Remus’ lycanthropy is a metaphor for HIV, but he’s still straight. Stop it, JKR). But I’m sure there are plenty of you who’d like to hash it out in the comments. Just keep it polite, please.

IT’S SAFE. NO MORE SHIPPY TALK. YOU CAN COME OUT NOW.

Of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, which will serve as Rowling’s screenwriting debut, the author noted that she was initially hesitant to OK the film, borne from a “feeling of slight panic that ‘I know some things about Newt and I don’t want you to ruin that for me!’ because I knew who he was.” But then she mulled on it, “collect[ing] my thoughts so that I could at least give them the backstory I’d imagined,” and ended up right a rough draft of the first film in 12 days. Not included in that rough draft, but something she’d like to be in the final film: Cameos!

“I want you [Emma Watson] and Dan [Radcliffe] and Rupert [Grint] in really heavy make-up in the background of a scene in Fantastic Beasts, and I’ll join you and we’ll sit in a bar room having a laugh for an afternoon… And we can mess around as extras in the background. And then we can see if anyone can spot us. I personally would like to be in drag, just to make sure no one can spot me at all.”

She expressed similar doubts about the Harry Potter stage play, a prequel that will take place before wee Harry gets his Hogwarts letter, noting that she’s gotten proposals from several people in the past wanting to do Harry Potter musicals. But “I didn’t really see Harry as a musical so we said no to all of that, but [co-producer] Sonia [Friedman] came along with a very thoughtful, very interesting idea. I’m quite excited about that.”

“Didn’t see Harry as a musical?” Someone needs to sit down with Starkid.

(via MuggleNet)

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  • Anonymous

    why did anyone have to end up with anyone?

  • Anonymous

    My coulple was always Seamus and Dean. I mean, i read at one point Rowling was going to make it Canon but didn’t want to distract from the main three (as a story like that would warrant more time). I mean, they HUGGED and she even said stuff about the trio when asked “shouldn’t they hug here” to which she responded “They’re british”. But Seamus and Dean DID!

  • Calum Syers

    I don’t mind anyone dating anyone else when the characters are seventeen. That’s what seventeen year olds do. My bigger problem is everyone being married to their high school sweethearts 17-years later.

    However, the positive aspect from this is that it opens up the possibilities of future stories, since it means JK isn’t against going back and revising, maybe she’ll look forward and see what’s happening with other characters. We could have stories following supporting or minor characters. I’d love to read a Dark Horse comic book series (think Star Wars, Buffy and Firefly) from Cho, Luna, George, Katie Bell or Angelina Johnson among others point of view. I know, I know, wishful thinking, but whatever.

  • Anonymous

    I like Ron & Hermione. Sometimes opposites do attract. Plus, I feel they balance each other well. Harry & Hermione would have been too obvious and clichéd.

  • http://thescienceofobsession.tumblr.com/ R.O.U.S.

    Remus/Sirius baby, the only one I ever really cared about.

    But the fact that JKR can’t make comments criticizing her own choices without backlash is ridiculous. It doesn’t change canon, it’s just an opinion on the outcome. Anyone who’s reached 30 and then looked back at their high school romance knows it’s a damn good thing to be able to change one’s mind about relationships.

  • Christopher LaHaise

    I’m a huge Harry / Hermione fan (oh gods, the kids…), but I’m also fond of the idea of Harry and Luna. That would have been an awesome pairing.

  • Georgethecat

    “Remus’ lycanthropy is a metaphor for HIV, but he’s still straight. Stop it, JKR.”

    Um, stop it yourself, writer. Re-read that sentence and recognize how very problematic that is; as you’ve just made a blanket statement about gay men and HIV.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a similarity to the changes Lucas has made to Star Wars. They always belong to the writers (unless you work for marvel or DC) but at what point do the stories stop being something that can be changed, because they “belong” to too many people?

  • Rebecca Pahle

    Is HIV a “gay disease”? No. Has that association historically been the cause of a ton of discrimination, suffering, and death in the LGBT community, particularly among gay men? Absolutely. I take issue with Rowling making the explicit connection between lycanthropy and homosexuality and then erasing the homosexuality aspect of it. As if it doesn’t matter. As if REAL PEOPLE in the gay community haven’t suffered because of the connection, the discrimination, that links “gay” and “AIDS” together.

    It’s like with the X-Men: “Discrimination against mutants is a metaphor for racism and homophobia! And you know who’s dealing with that here? STRAIGHT WHITE PEOPLE.”

    It’s erasure, and it’s bullshit.

  • http://www.according2robyn.blogspot.com/ According2Robyn

    “I wonder what happens at wizard marriage counseling?”

    Same as regular marriage counseling, except that instead of roleplaying out your spouse’s concerns, you’re actually turned into your spouse using polyjuice potion.

    It’s extremely unsettling.

  • Suzanne Larsen

    I shipped Hermione and Ginny

  • Travis

    For those few chapters I legitimately thought JK was going switch over to Harry/Hermione, which would have been an epic troll move to all the Ron fans out there. But alas…

  • Laura Truxillo

    “has a real weakness for a funny man. These uptight girls, they do like
    them funny… It’s such a relief from being so intense yourself — you
    need someone who takes life, or appears to take life, a little more
    light-heartedly.”

    Again, this is why Hermione/Fred is my go-top Hermione ship. Ron only takes life light-heartedly so long as he isn’t the butt of a joke. He can take a lot of things pretty hard indeed.

    The tent scene was nice and loaded, and felt shippy, but it also felt kind of honest, the same way Hermione and Ron felt kind of honest. These are teenagers, in dangerous, awful situations, with hormones running high. Even teenagers who wind up better as friends than lovers still often have a dance of “should we maybe…?” Because after all, we’re told that’s primarily how men and women interact, right? That if someone of the gender you’re attracted to is important to you that it must be romantic, right? And for a teenager, it’s especially easy for something to feel romantic–almost everything feels romantic.

    Meph. Neither of them, is the answer. Just three friends with no need to pair off and marry.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I especially loved them in the movie. He and Luna had some great chemistry there.

    Which slightly interferes with my love of Luna/Neville, but that can be easily balmed by Ginny/Neville. Aw yeah, tough girls/sweet guys.

  • locuas

    Please, everyone knows that Severus&Sirius are OTP!

  • Laura Truxillo

    I really always felt like Ron and Hermione were kinda cliched. The whole “they fight because they like each other” thing.

  • Anonymous

    Looks like you got a couple downvotes from the hardcore anyone/anyone shippers.

  • Austin Wildcatter

    Here’s what I never liked – Harry/Ginny. Talk about wish fulfillment! No no no on so many levels.

  • Anonymous

    But isn’t that what teens do? I saw their anger as less, “You annoy me!” and more venting. They were under a lot of pressure and they lashed out at the people they loved the most, and were also the people they were around the most. Teens are hormonal, and stupid in love. Add in life threatening situations coming at them, I sort of understood the bickering.

  • Anonymous

    NO ONE SHOULD DIE ALONE!

  • Anonymous

    Hagrid/Flitwick FTW

  • Mark Matson

    But remember there is no wizardry college. Of those who don’t go to college, marrying high school sweethearts is much more common, I assume. Combine that with the fairly small wizard community and I don’t have much of a problem with it. It seems fairly natural.

    They’re probably divorced, though.

  • Calum Syers

    Trelawny/Sprout shipper here.

  • http://pearlrose86.livejournal.com/ Maggie

    I shipped Lupin/Tonks. The rest, I sort of cringed my way through and it was a major reason that I couldn’t take the last two books so well. (I enjoyed Capslock!Harry more than Teenage Dating Do Si Do.)

    But the thing that I keep taking away from all of this is that no matter who gets shipped or made canon, there’s going to be somebody out there who’s unhappy with it. What’s done is done, the rest is what fanfic is for.

    I think JK Rowling’s comments are interesting, but it’s such a sharp contrast from John Green’s “books belong to their readers” mantra, where he refuses to reveal anything about a story once it’s finished. Both are somehow infuriating in their own ways. ;) I think I prefer John Green’s approach, though, because I think it keeps the door open for more possibilities and interpretations versus the one true way that things are what they are, just perfectly so.

  • Calum Syers

    I guess I can kinda understand that, but I still think it was done for the readers’ benefit more than for logic’s benefit. And I still think, even in the wizards’ world, they still go to jobs, some as densely populated as the Ministry, where there are chances to meet other people. I just don’t quite buy that they’d all be paired off with kids. It seemed to be done to please readers more than anyone else.

  • Anonymous

    aragog/buckbeak

  • Calum Syers

    Thestrals/Fully grown Mandrake plant.

  • Calum Syers

    Thestrals/Fully grown Mandrake plant.

  • Jill Peters

    What do these terms “ship, shipped, shippery, etc” have to do with ideas about a plot line? It sounds more like sending items through the mail.

  • Anonymous

    Her own fault if she didn’t follow her gut feeling. I think if you are telling a story you always should follow your inner feeling not your own wishes. The gut tells you how the story wants to be told. End of line.

    On related news, I just saw “Before Midnight” (Ethan Hawke & Julie Delphy) and wonder how any great love may turn out when you are married with kids and your job is eating you up! ;-) ;-) ;-) “BM” was quite frustrating for me.

  • Anonymous

    No, Serverus’s unrequited love of Lily Potter is one of the best things about this series. It was PURE and TRUE. Don’t you try to taint that!

  • Selkiechick

    Not near as interesting as these, but I was hoping for Neville/Luna…

  • Anonymous

    Part of me wants to up-vote you for your creativity and willingness to think outside the box. The other part of me really resents you for making me wonder about the logistics of those unions.

  • Anonymous

    But the sex is amazing…?

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    I want to say, “But he was a moron,” but I’d expect a response of, “all men are,” and then my rebuttal would be, “BUT NUH-UH.”

  • Lapin

    I like Harry/Ginny and Hermione/Ron just fine. But the only ship I ever read fanfic of was Remus/Sirius, so… I feel like I could actually care less about who the main cast ended up with. I found all the possible main cast ships (canon or Harry/Hermione) okay for canon, but… boring for fanfic? Tween me probably read enough fanfic to match the length of the books, so ‘would I read fic about it?’ was embarrassingly how I evaluated a lot of things.

  • Zombiepeep

    I never shipped Hermione/Ron…. nor Herminone/Harry. The three have an intangible bond that for me, didn’t have to translate to romance. I always thought Hermione would end up with some smart, philosopher type — someone whose quiet good sense and humor could temper her. Probably someone a bit older than she.

    It always struck me as so… silly… almost childish… that in the epilogue so many students end up married to people they met as 11 year olds. I know the pool of available wizards is small but it just struck me as so ODD and took me right out of the story.

    I always thought that Ginny’s appeal to Harry was more about his wanting to be part of a large, loving and accepting family than with Ginny herself. Which is sort of sad for her, in a way.

  • Zombiepeep

    I never shipped Hermione/Ron…. nor Herminone/Harry. The three have an intangible bond that for me, didn’t have to translate to romance. I always thought Hermione would end up with some smart, philosopher type — someone whose quiet good sense and humor could temper her. Probably someone a bit older than she.

    It always struck me as so… silly… almost childish… that in the epilogue so many students end up married to people they met as 11 year olds. I know the pool of available wizards is small but it just struck me as so ODD and took me right out of the story.

    I always thought that Ginny’s appeal to Harry was more about his wanting to be part of a large, loving and accepting family than with Ginny herself. Which is sort of sad for her, in a way.

  • dontmindme

    if by true you mean obsessive, stalker-y, and creepy. It’s pretty much already tainted.

  • http://www.according2robyn.blogspot.com/ According2Robyn

    Ha! All men ar…

    Oh.

    Nevermind.

  • Anonymous

    Am I the only one that considered Helena Ravenclaw and the Bloody Baron ghost sexing?

  • Anonymous

    The difference between stalking and true love is that a) True love is reciprocated, OR b) True love lives on and saves your progeny with another man long after your tragic and early death. There’s a handbook somewhere around here that covers this. I think it’s called Twilight.

  • Anonymous

    Not anymore, God dammit.

  • Anonymous

    “the LJ days when the books first came out (god, typing that makes me feel old)”

    My thoughts EXACTLY. This whole thing is such a hilarious throwback.

  • Anonymous

    honestly, i was disappointed when Cho was suddenly written-off as some crazy girl that harry avoided.

  • Anonymous

    If this fic does not exist in the next 24 hours, I will lose faith in this fandom.

  • Anonymous

    You would never hear that from me.

  • dontmindme

    Except said true love also led to abusing and bullying said progeny pretty much the entire time.

  • dontmindme

    But Ron isn’t a moron. He’s the least intelligent mentally speaking of his friend but given that his friends are Harry and Hermione, that’s nothing to be ashamed of.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Harry’s kind of doofy, too.

  • Anonymous

    Published stories belong to the writers in a legal sense, but in a literary sense, they belong to everyone and no one. I hate it when authors try to fiddle with published work. Steven King, this side-eye’s for you.

  • Anonymous

    Eh, Snape had to convince Voldermort to trust him. Yes, in the books Snape literally hurts Harry for his own good. Yikes.

  • dontmindme

    There’s also calling his supposed true love a racial slur and looking down on her family for not having magic. Lol, Voldy wasn’t around in books 1-3. And yes, I do believe Snape got some sick thrill out of bullying Harry.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Dang, I forgot about Bill Nye.

  • athenia45

    Well, that just makes me like Hermione/Ron more now. Hermione’s devotion to Harry in a small space speaks more about our ideas of what a dude/lady relationship should be like, instead of what it is.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I…suppose? I always get kinda sad when I hear people chime in with “that’s what teens do!” because…well, sure maybe some teens I knew did that. Teens that, incidentally, didn’t get married or aren’t married anymore.

    My point above was that I thought it was cliched as hell. It’s its own trope: Slap Slap Kiss. You could see it coming a mile away, from very early on that they were the couple Rowling wanted to put together. I mean, I picked that up as a kid and rolled my eyes with an “oh, here we go again.”

    Moving away from my original point, it really does bug me that it’s such a prevalent trope. I don’t think it’s as much the norm as people seem to think, and I feel like having it show up in everything is just perpetuating the idea that if you don’t get along with someone, you liiiiiiike them. And I think that, like Rowling is saying, with more distance away from the “passion” of that relationship, with time to cool it off, eventually many relationships rooted in mutually tearing strips off of one another don’t really last, or don’t last happily.

    People wrote off a lot of Hermione’s behavior as “oh, well, she was a teen” as if that meant it wasn’t really gross behavior that needed talking about. Physically attacking Ron when she was upset? Dating a guy she hated just because it would bug Ron? I’m sure that teens do these things, but hell, teens lash out and capslock like Harry did, and we still talked about what a little twit he was during that time. Hermione, especially in book six, was just gross. (Nevermind the whole not trusting her friends to make their own choices, etc etc.)

  • Anonymous

    I’m not trying to excuse it. Apologies if it came across that way. I do see your point, and for the most part, agree with it. I try to see it from the view that these were students who were away from their parents for most of the year, were not around adults in relationships while at school so they had no one to look at for reference, and, as I mentioned earlier, they were under a lot of stress. I don’t like how they acted, it wasn’t in any way healthy, but I can sort of understand why they did.

    I come from a small town and behavior like this was fairly normal, unfortunately. Perhaps that colors my view a bit.

    I was an adult when I read the series and I wish I could say I saw the Ron/Hermione thing coming, but I didn’t realize it until he started dating Lavender Brown. A massive over site, to be sure.

  • Mark Matson

    I have an image of Hermione and Ron’s marriage having lots of ups and downs at first, up until their first child. At that point, Ron becomes a stay-at-home dad and loves it. And is very good at it. From then on their roles are set and it is smooth sailing.

  • Anonymous

    This may not go over well but… is it a good idea to peer too closely at how likely fictional pairings are? No one ever seems to say “Ariel met exactly one human and boom he’s her eternal love.” “Aurora meets a guy in the forest with a nice singing voice and hey would you look at that, they are a hit!”

  • Anonymous

    Thank you. I really dislike sweeping generalizations.

  • Mark Matson

    Welcome to internet fandom.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Me too, although I was honestly thinking of my wife more than TheMarySue’s readers when I wrote my original response. Still, I can’t say I expect more than sarcasm and fanaticism in response when I comment about a topic with such a large fanbase. I’ve become very cynical and hypocritical in my board comments in retaliation (i.e. I do the same damn thing. And I can be childish. And pseudo-intellectual. And things.

    So, I like your approach. It seems calmer.

  • locuas

    it was a joke…

  • Anonymous

    YES.

  • Anonymous

    Same. Ginny had a crush on him this whole time, and very suddenly, to me anyway, he likes her back? Whut?

  • Anonymous

    I can fall prey to the lure of internet anonymity and be an a** at times, too. I love a lot of things that people tend to get fanatical about: HP, Doctor Who, Sherlock, but I try to stay away from being that person that screams at others because they have a differing opinion. I said try, so I have done it, I won’t lie.

  • Anonymous

    I can only imagine…who needs “wands” when you’ve got magic?

  • Xtine Lawl Ⓥ

    Sirius/Remus and the love-hate (non-cannon obviously) Draco/Harry will always be my favourites… Ah to live in the world of fandom fantasy..<3

  • Xtine Lawl Ⓥ

    Oh god AVPM was epic… JKR… oh JKR… don’t go there. :) (yes, even though it’s her creation!)

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Still. It’s an example worth following.

  • Silvermoonlight

    I fall more on the side of Hermione/Ron but I can see where people are coming from with Hermione/Harry as the films had some wonderful moments my favourite being the Little Train dance in The Deathly Hallows.The only problem I have with the idea of Hermione/Harry is that it makes Ron become to much more of a side kick as he would never get the girl, never have that great character development that he gets through being with Hermione as her close friend because a lot of that comes through his attraction to her and it causes issues between them. Scenes like his jealously for Krum made for great movie viewing. No offence to any shippers but I feel that Harry should not have been put with Ginny in the movies their relationship to me felt tacked on it lacked the depth that Ron/Hermione’s had.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Reminding me of their bickering also reminded me that the Harry in my head isn’t actually the Harry in the books or movies. He’s a combination of those, yes, but he’s also a bunch of DeviantArt snaps, as well as the Harry in Potter Puppet Pals and the insulting, shouty Harry in Reddit memes. They all have this central Harry core to them that feels right, so the version I imagine when discussing Harry Potter is this obnoxious, self-centered, cocky snot.

    And isn’t quite all that far off if the memes would tone down the swearing.

  • Anonymous

    It was consensus among my Potter reading friends that Harry, Ron, and
    Hermione would all end up in a PTSD fueled threeway marriage. Harry
    would try to date Ginny for a while, but she would dump him (gently, of
    course) because he couldn’t stop worrying about where Ron and Hermione
    were. So after some fab work trying to heal their own psyches and the
    wounds they inflicted on each other- Harry/Ron/Hermione OT3. Headcanon. I have it.

  • Natalie Willoughby

    Oh come on – we all have dated that one crazy girl/boy that we avoided for the rest of high school.

  • Morgan

    I appreciate everyone’s point of view and I love odd ships; I’m always rooting for the ones that will never end up together, but I have a hard time understanding when people have trouble seeing Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny. Being best friends with Harry is a bonding experience all its own. You love this friend who is a basket of feelings and doomed to die, and with his penchant for sulking, you know they spent a lot of alone time (together) feeling helpless. They get each other in a way Harry will never get them. Same for Ginny. I love that you didn’t see much of a relationship from his side until they spent what was arguably the best summer of Harry’s life together. He associates her with all the best things in his life (including being an express ticket into the family). I can easily see how canon pairings came to be.

    I love talking about this stuff and I like that Rowling still talks about this stuff. I just hate all the haters, man. Yeah, I can totally see Harmony, but I hope you can see canon, too.

  • Calum Syers

    Yup, me too. She was treated falsely by the films and books.

  • Natalie Willoughby

    I went to a pretty small high school, and a lot of my classmates ended up married to each other, even the ones that moved away. I picture Hogwarts like that – your class is your peer group that you grow up with and enter careers with, so it’s likely a lot of younger couples end up together the end.

  • Anonymous
  • Morgan

    I totally get how that sucks but for me its similar to George marrying Angelina. Part of it is going to be because of how much they loved Fred. I don’t think Ginny is stupid; I’m sure she knows being a Weasley is part of the appeal. I just don’t think its the only the thing.

  • Morgan

    You just converted me. I never thought about them.

  • Natalie Willoughby

    You’re forgetting this is high school, I think. And it kinda seems like you don’t really like Hermione. Absolutely that’s what teens do – hormones. You’ve never dated/hooked up with someone just to piss someone else off? Or gotten so mad you throw things at people? I was a very volatile teen, as were many of my peers, and I don’t consider that “gross” – I consider it being young and stupid. I have 2 friends from high school that were very hostile towards each other – the girl just turned 31 and they married last year. Often hostility is an overcompensation for nervousness (Hermione) or low self-esteem (Ron). I remember my mother telling me in middle school that a boy was mean to me because he liked me. Cliched or not, it happens sometimes. And Ron and Hermione ending up together isn’t necessarily as cliche as you say – opposites do attract, sometimes.

  • Morgan

    Ohhh, I like it, I like it!

  • Anonymous

    THE LENNY AND CARL OF HOGWARTS

  • Natalie Willoughby

    I completely agree with you. But do you think that JKR consciously made that decision? It’s totally on her and her editor for not taking this all into consideration, but I don’t feel like she blatantly made Remus straight, I think he was just always straight in her mind. Plus, it’s not like she’s a homophobe.

  • Anonymous

    I imagine Ron would just quietly morph into Arthur as soon as the baby pops out

  • Natalie Willoughby

    The movies, yes. But the books? Come on! Am I really the only one who dated that crazy person in high school that I completely avoided later?

  • Morgan

    Hahahaha! OT3 FTW.

  • Anonymous

    Was just re-reading PoA and got to the bit where Snape straight up tries to murder Trevor the toad because of I dunno, some sick Neville bashing fetish and I was just like, yep, remembering why I don’t like Snape.

  • Anonymous

    hahahahah then my deed for the day is done, and honestly who COULDN’T Hell the actors pretty much did the same thing http://thebacklot.mtvnimages.com/uploads/2013/08/deamus-dancing.gif

  • Anonymous

    JOKE NOT ABOUT THE SHIPS! TIS BLASPHEMY!

  • Calum Syers

    Believe me, I understand that this happens in small communities. My problem, I feel, is that it seemed to be done more to please the millions of [Enter couple here] shippers, more than it was done for logic. It didn’t feel organic, I guess.

  • Zombiepeep

    I don’t think that’s Ginny’s only appeal to Harry, though I can see how it may have come across that way. But I think it was a large part of her appeal.

  • Natalie Willoughby

    Fair enough. I don’t really disagree either – not only did I not marry my high school sweetheart, the idea of it makes me double over with laughter at how fast we would have divorced. And I think you may be right about it not being organic. I wonder if she felt pressured, either directly by the fans or indirectly by the fans through her editors to write the epilogue.

  • Morgan

    Holy hell, that is a great gif. :D This day is shaping up nicely.

  • Anonymous

    But who is making that connection between Gays and AIDS here? I never read anywhere JK Rowling saying that she was equating Lycanthropy with homosexuality? Equating Lycanthropy with AIDS and discrimination of people with AIDs is the connection she was making. i think Rowling is drawing from her experience of having worked in south africa with people who have been victims of some of the worst humanitarian crimes imaginable, as well as that region having a high percentage of AIDs sufferers (sufferers who are not confined to the gay community). I know many people saw Remus and Sirius as a gay couple, or even as Remus as being gay and thus having the gay/hiv metaphor. For all we know Remus was bisexual. but his sexuality is independant of his “condition” he was attacked. People who suffer from lycanthropy are attacked by inffected persons. If anything, Greyback comes off as a sexual predator (evidence that he attacks and at times turns children lends more proof to that) and Remus comes off as one of his victims. So Remus, could be seen as someone who was “assaulted” as child, becomes infected, and forever carries that stigma.

    That said, if there is reference to JKR explictly stating that not only is lycanthropy equated to AIDs victims, but ALSO equated with discrimanation against homosexuals, then i will just shut up

  • Morgan

    Definitely. I just didn’t think it was sad. It made it a more natural paring for me.

  • Calum Syers

    It certainly feels tacked on, which is a little disconcerting. As far as I can see, most of my, and plenty of other peoples’ concerns with the ending would be gone if that epilogue went, too.

  • Anonymous

    I should clarify that Lenny and Carl are married in my brain…

  • dontmindme

    I’m just going to leave this here, it was written before DH came out but it explains why, for me, they can work as a couple.

    http://hp-essays.livejournal.com/132755.html

  • Georgethecat

    Perhaps then the two should be separate issues. Yes, agreed, there were so few canonically recognized LGBTQ characters in the Potter-universe (and notably that they were only revealed after the books were published) and that is frustrating; however, it’s another thing to suggest that because lycanthropy is a metaphor for HIV, that therefore Remus should have been gay.

    As such, you’re essentially making the very same linking that you note real people have suffered from.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Okay, A: cliched does not mean untrue. It just means something we’ve seen a million times before and can see coming a mile away.

    “You’ve never dated/hooked up with someone just to piss someone else off?”

    No. No, I didn’t. Also, by the time I was a teenager, I’d learned that physically lashing out at someone as a response to being annoyed wasn’t appropriate. And I was a fiery little brat of a thing too.

    But you miss my point in regards to Hermione–it doesn’t MATTER if “teenagers do that.” Her actions are still WRONG. ACTIONS. Teenagers make a lot of wrong actions. But Hermione’s get this magic pass that we don’t often give the other characters. (And hell, I could write an essay out of examples of Hermione acting horribly in non-hormone-driven circumstances, things that always get justified by the plot, and by virtue of her being oh-so-clever, but are still kind of chilling to imagine a 14-17 year old child doing without batting an eye. Kidnapping and blackmail for one.)

    Okay, backing off the Hermione-hate for a moment and going back to my point… maybe teenagers do these things. But they’re still not really okay things to do. We call out Harry for being a selfish jerk in book five, we call out Ron for having the “emotional sensitivity of a teaspoon” in…well, the whole series, but Hermione’s super-creepy actions throughout most of book six just get a pass because, “Pshaw, that’s just how teenage girls are, amirite!”

    Which is such a creepy line of thought. Yeah, teenage years are a volatile time, but the idea that, “oh, it’s okay to physically lash out at someone or to deliberately manipulate people for your own ends–you’re a TEENAGE GIRL and your hormones made you do it!” It’s such bull.

    ” I remember my mother telling me in middle school that a boy was mean to me because he liked me.”

    Yeah. I remember that too. Turns out, no, mostly they were just little snotmunchers. That is a seriously crappy thing that we tell to young girls as a way to make it seem like less of a big deal when guys make them uncomfortable. Becomes part of a lovely social narrative of, “Oh don’t complain, honey, it’s fine.” Gross.

  • Suzanne Larsen

    *laugh* actually I do say that, its one of the reasons Im not a Little Mermaid fan. Really, you’re going to give up your whole way of life for a dude you saw on a boat? Shop around a little, honey!

  • Anonymous

    Never read the books but seen all the movies … How come Harry didn’t end up with the Asian girl that was eyeing him when they were training?

  • Unity

    Team Wolfstar! Sirius/Remus: the ship that was never, EVER sunk in canon: it just got horrifically tragic in the middle, got slightly better and then was cut short by death. No hate for Remus/Tonks- that wasn’t even hinted at while Sirius was alive, and poor Remus deserved some happiness after all that. You know. While it lasted.

  • Mark Matson

    Ah, but don’t forget they are magic wands!

  • Anonymous

    Alyssa Rosenberg had an interesting point on Hermione/Ron: both of them have something unique in common in being overshadowed by Harry.

    http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2014/02/04/3243401/rowling-ron-hermione/

    Ron’s insecurities are pretty well spelled out when destroying Slytherin’s locket, but Hermione potentially has issues with it as well. “And while the novels may not linger on any frustrations or anxieties
    Hermione feels, there is something touching about the fact that the
    greatest witch of her age may have her brilliance reduced to a footnote
    in her friend’s story.”

    That’s gotta be a heck of a bonding experience, being the sidekicks of the chosen one.

  • Tallulah Alice Mae

    It’s weird to say because nearly everything I’ve read/watched since is so shippy-focused for me, but I don’t give two shits about any romance in Harry Potter. It’s my childhood, and I grew up with it, and I enjoyed reading Harry falling for Ginny and Ron/Hermione were cute but it’s maybe like the 48th most interesting thing about the story for me.

    This is also the reason I’ve never read a word of HP fanfic and will never, EVER go near that shit.

  • Tallulah Alice Mae

    What no I liked that in the book, how Hermione explained it. Ginny grew up and became smart and confident with herself, and that’s what Harry found attractive. I think that makes sense? And I don’t think it’s unrealistic to think that teenagers can “notice” each other like that quite suddenly.

  • Tallulah Alice Mae

    I was going to say the same thing – it’s a really interesting connection I never thought of, but unless JK has specifically stated that’s kind of the idea behind it, you’re reading way too much into it.

  • Anonymous

    I’m reading too much into it?

  • Anonymous

    God forbid she have normal human emotions after her boyfriend dies.
    Then again, it probably wasn’t great being the rebound…

  • Anonymous

    1) Let’s not talk about Fred. I’m not over it.
    2) I liked that Harry and Hermione were so close in the movies. It was my favorite thing about them, that addition to their relationship. Not, of course, because of shipping, but because Hermione felt like a 3rd wheel in the books fairly frequently, and also because I had male best friends all through high school and college, so it was nice to see that on-screen. Just because there’s chemistry or tension doesn’t have to mean anything, and I wish we saw people navigating these sorts of things more frequently. Just my 2 cents.

  • Anonymous

    Dobby comes back to life and marries Harry and Ron in a threeway wedding. Anyone who says otherwise is dead to me.

  • Ben English

    Also long as it’s not macho sexist DAYD-Neville.

  • Ben English

    Considering that Lupin was turned into a werewolf by a vicious attack and not a mistake by someone who didn’t know they were carrying it, I’d say Lupin’s condition is a metaphor for someone who acquired AIDS from being raped.

  • Ben English

    Snape was a nasty piece of work. And a hero.

    And a nasty piece of work.

  • Ben English

    Well Rowling’s not changing the story. She just said she regrets certain choices she made. I mean, Harry and Hermione could have easily fallen for each other when they were alone and Ron had left them. I don’t think it would have worked long term but it’s not impossible that two teens forced into a civil war, alone in the forest, could feel sparks that normally wouldn’t happen….

    But unless we’re going to see The Harry Potter Octology: Special Edition in 2021 with the Hermione/Ron and Harry/Ginny romantic scenes CGIed into the converse, then I don’t think the Star Wars comparison is apt.

  • dontmindme

    I don’t know about hero but at least he had enough of a moral compass to finally fight for the good guys and protect his students at least a little bit from the Death Eaters. That is pretty much all the credit I will give him.

  • dontmindme

    I don’t know about hero but at least he had enough of a moral compass to finally fight for the good guys and protect his students at least a little bit from the Death Eaters. That is pretty much all the credit I will give him.

  • dontmindme

    I don’t know about hero but at least he had enough of a moral compass to finally fight for the good guys and protect his students at least a little bit from the Death Eaters. That is pretty much all the credit I will give him.

  • Anonymous

    If she’s saying all about this towards Ron/Hermoine, does that mean she has her doubts about the Lily/James relationship now?

  • Zombiepeep

    I’ve never read any HP fanfic either… or, uhh… any fanfic anywhere. I’m probably in the minority there but I sort of LIKE canon, you know? lol

  • Ben English

    How does that follow?

  • Madeleine Odowichuk

    Agreed. Harry and Cho might have been a cute couple in book 4, if she hadn’t been dating Cedric. After that loss, Cho needed to properly mourn, to be believed and to be comforted, and she mistakenly thought he could find that with Harry. It makes me wonder if she had any friends at the time who believed Cedric was killed by Voldemort.
    I think people’s perception of Cho suffers from seeing her from Harry’s perspective in Book 5, as Harry is completely clueless and lacking in empathy for Cho.

  • Ben English

    Cho. Their relationship fizzled out in the books because Cho was so upset over her boyfriend being murdered by Voldemort. As Harry was the only eyewitness to his death being with him usually resulted in her sobbing uncontrollably which Harry couldn’t deal with.

    In the films it’s more suggested that their failure is due to her actions giving up the location of that training room to Umbridge.

  • Ben English

    Harry is clueless but I don’t think it’s that he lacks empathy. Lacking empathy is basically the antithesis of Harry. He just doesn’t know how to deal with her grief. He was there, he saw Cedric die, not to mention he’d lost his own parents and had been emotionally abused for years by the Dursleys, and though deaths always hit him hard, he has highly advanced coping skills. Cho doesn’t. It’s not either of them’s fault, but it just wasn’t working.

  • Ben English

    I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s not wrong? Hermione is not a saint. There are very few characters in Harry Potter that come out without having done something morally dubious if not outright wrong. Neville and Luna, perhaps. Hermione and Ron both had a lot of growing up to do, and I think a lot of that happens in book seven.

  • Brent Jones

    So… ship is short for relationship? Is there more to it or is that pretty much it?

  • Niala Terrell-Mason

    YESSSS! My femslash OTP!

  • Niala Terrell-Mason

    Possibly. Rowling has said that Hermione is very much *her.* Not a Mary Sue (the trope, not the site) way, exactly, but that she was very much a Hermione-esque person when she was a kid/teen.

  • Niala Terrell-Mason

    I don’t know about the rest of the fandom, but all these renewed ship wars are pretty exciting (for me). Mostly because Harry/Hermione is my het OTP, so I am THRILLED and VINDICATED by all this talk. ;) That said, why aren’t we talking about the ship that can bring harmony and peace to the fandom? Yes, I do mean Golden Trio! Ron/Harry/Hermione are the perfect ship. OT3 4 life right here. I love Harry/Ron, I love Harry/Hermione, but the only way I can do Ron/Hermione is in Trio with Harry as a balance/mediator.

  • Madeleine Odowichuk

    You’re absolutely right. Lack of empathy was the wrong way to describe him entirely. He just didn’t know what to do in that situation.
    It’s actually nice, in a way, to see a relationship not work in a book, not because either character was a bad person, but that it just didn’t work because of the timing or personalities. It’s not the end of the world, but they both learned something for future relationships.

  • Hugo M

    Wow, this whole thing feels so bittersweet for me. I applaud JKR’s honesty about it all, but I can’t help feeling a bit sad and surprised that she’s saying all of this. That famous Mugglenet interview keeps coming to my mind (“DELUSIONAL!”) and yes, I can’t help thinking that from the beginning Ron/Hermione felt natural and inevitable (in a good way), and Hermione/Harry was a completely asexual friendship, with total lack of romantic chemistry whatsoever. JKR’s ability in weaving this kind of subtext in her stories is usually great (think about Dumbledore being outed outside the books, in interviews: it’s not explicitly dealt with anywhere in the books, yet somehow it feels natural, it’s there permeating it all somehow). I completely respect her opinions, obviously, and she’s the author after all, and I still adore her, but it’s the first time I feel this kind of disconnect between what’s said and implied in the books and what she says in interviews, and I can’t help thinking how it all feels surreal, and a tiny part of me wishes this was some sort of April’s fools prank!

    Well, at least she does offer a glimmer of hope for the couple. Yes, I agree they have a few isssues to work through, but I hope they do fine. Yes, I’m very attached to these fictional people and I talk about them as if they were real ;)

  • Anonymous

    Thank you very much.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Whenever you point out gross things Hermione did, the response is always: “But she’s a TEENAGER! Teens are like that!” Which isn’t so much saying “it’s not wrong” I suppose as it is saying that you can’t call her out on doing bad things because apparently it’s just normal for teenagers to do bad things.

    (The non-teenager-y bad things like walking all over the rights of people she was trying to protect, conning people into signing a blank contract, scarring a teenage girl for life, kidnapping, and blackmail always get justified with, “Yes, but there’s a war on!” Which is also true, and it’s true that a lot of those things saved the day, though some were pure nastiness, but it doesn’t change the fact that when there’s cold calculating Righteousness to be done, Hermione is usually the first person at bat. It’s part of her character.)

  • Anonymous

    Anybody else think that a Harry Potter musical before he gets the Hogwarts letter would be extremely depressing?

    “What’cha doin there, Harry?”

    “Oh, nothing, just talking to the spiders in my cupboard under the stairs. They’re my only friends…”

  • Raerae

    This is probably a very good reason why I hate the [years after] epilogue some novels give, like how the HP series ended. People still grow and change, and it’s likely you’d think the characters would too. Hell, years after you first read a series, you may think they’d grow and change differently upon the second time reading it.

    And this is true even for the authors that write this stuff. I know I’ve reread some of my own stuff, recalled what I thought would happen in the aftermath and wonder what the hell I was thinking.

  • http://www.justplainsomething.com JustPlainSomething

    The funny thing is, I’ve read quite a few really excellent Ron/Hermione fics where they’re adults and do deal with relationship issues. Even a few where they go to counseling. As someone who grew up with the books but is now in her late 20s, I can relate to a couple who have genuine relationship issues and aren’t on the same page with each other all the time.

    I do think her quotes got blown out of proportion (not helped by the media primarily, to be quite honest), but some of her stuff about Ron is a little disconcerting. Even if you don’t think his relationship with Hermione worked (I’m a multishipper, so I can take some of that in stride), I thought Ron’s fallibility was one of the most interesting parts of DH and that the whole point is not when you make mistakes but what happens after. Are you brave enough to face the people you’ve wronged and do everything you can to make amends? Are you brave enough to learn from your mistakes? For me, that’s Ron’s story in the last book.

  • http://www.justplainsomething.com JustPlainSomething

    Yeah, I’ve kind of seen the same thing going on. I’m just surprised that people are acting like having issues in a marriage or relationship is a deal breaker. I mean, that’s NORMAL. And while I know Ron was kind of thick when it came to girls in the books, I’m of the belief that he matured a lot in the last book and learned a lot of really important lessons about his own self-worth and how to treat the people you care about. If/when they had issues in their relationship, I really believe Ron would have been more thoughtful in how he handled it because he remembers the locket and what jumping to conclusions got him.

  • http://www.justplainsomething.com JustPlainSomething

    Something else to think about is how most of the books are seen from Harry’s pov (3rd person narrative, but still in his head) and he is not a particularly perceptive narrator when it comes to these things. Remember how he thought Tonks was in love with Sirius in book 6? He doesn’t always see what’s going on in the same way other characters would and he’s usually busy trying to not be killed by a noseless psychopath. There are a lot of aspects to the Ron and Hermione friendship pre-their kiss that we don’t get to see because we’re in the Chosen One’s head. I would love to know the conversations Ron and Hermione had as prefects in Book 5, for instance.

  • http://www.justplainsomething.com JustPlainSomething

    Yeah, the books did a better job explaining why Cho and Harry didn’t work. It felt really natural because it was a mix of her standing up for a friend (long story short: her friend sold their group out about sneaking off to train and Cho was mad at Hermione for retaliating) and her feelings about Cedric and there was also a REALLY bad Valentine’s date they went on that was the epitome of awkward. Basically a lot of things happened and their relationship sort of collapsed on itself in a very “first relationship” sort of way. The movie glossed over pretty much all of that.

  • http://www.justplainsomething.com JustPlainSomething

    I might be the one Ron/Hermione fan who was okay with the tent scene. It felt like something that could easily happen in an extremely stressful situation … they almost find that solace in each other. They consider it for a brief moment because they’re lonely and scared and need comfort. But in the end, Harry wasn’t Ron and Hermione wasn’t Ginny. And the moment passes.

    I don’t know, am I crazy for seeing that as a good thing? That for a moment they consider each other in a new way but decide against it?

  • Laura Truxillo

    Nah, I think even if I liked the ship, I’d still like the scene. Or be okay with it, at least. As you say, it’s the sort of thing that could easily happen, but in the end, they’d rather have one another as friends. Sometimes that’s the sort of conclusion you have to walk right up to the edge of to really get.

  • Anonymous

    Yup. Fandom 101- A ship is short for a relationship. The act of “shipping” is supporting and enjoying watching (or imagining) that relationship. So if I say I ship Hagrid/Giant Squid, it means that I support their obvious and clearly eternal love. Or their hatesex. You know, whatever.

    The Potter fandom was WELL known for its “shipping wars” in which shippers (those who supported a given ship) would flap about all over the internet creating much drama and sometimes lasting friendships over who Snape should have been boning. The internet is weird, yo.

  • Ben English

    Well I don’t think that either of them is awful for the other, but that’s sort of why this interview hurts me so. Ron the abusive jerk, Ron the Death Eater, Ron the brainless moron are fan tropes that grow largely from obsessive Harmonians. They gloss over Hermione’s flaws and exaggerate Ron’s because they think Harry and Hermione have this pure and perfect love, and there’s no shortage of, as you say, creepy ideas caught up in this. (See also people calling Ginny a slut because she dated boys before Harry.)

    I don’t really deeply care about shipping in the specific sense, but in the context that the characters are assassinated to make it happen, it’s just aggravating to see Rowling throwing fuel onto a fire that I thought was finally dying out.

  • Suzanne Larsen

    woohoo! “HMS Minds on Fire” forever!

  • Anonymous

    Was also referring to my favorite erm…toy, but yes :D

  • Anonymous

    The way it was done, made it came across as “well of course they have to end up together!” Similar to the idea that every dudebro movie has to have a love interest.

  • Anonymous

    I understand where you’re coming from; the idea that tragedy can bring people together. I would hesitate in using PTSD; it dwells on the stereotypes of that mental state.

  • Laura Truxillo

    I just think it’s silly that the Harmonians see it as an automatic win. Whatever the headlines said, I don’t recall seeing Rowling actually saying Harry/Hermione was the better endgame. Just that Ron and Hermione seem like the sort of relationship to her that seemed like a good idea at the time and weren’t.

    I’d be platonic trio all the way. Hooray for a girl getting to be part of the main cadre of guys without having to pair up with one of them.

  • Silvermoonlight

    Yes I’m well aware of that fact and I know that the the books are very different, my post was aimed at the screen romances because there are a lot of people out there who have not read the books hence why there was no reference to them in my post because I would be giving plot lines and spoilers ruining it for them by pointing out the differences.

  • Amy W

    I actually thought Harry’s attraction to Ginny always seemed a little Oedipal, myself. Yes, the getting-to-actually-be-a-Weasley was part of it too, but I couldn’t help noticing how many similarities Ginny had to Lily Potter, in looks and personality.

  • Amy W

    I just really like your comment for so many reasons. I agree with pretty much everything you said, sure, but I also like it because you’re just so positive and friendly about it. And I was driven to commenting back by “I love talking about this stuff” because I was just sitting here laughing at myself for so enthusiastically reading ALL of these comments– why on earth do I still care about this?– yes, it really is fun to care so much about the lives of fictional characters, isn’t it!

  • Amy W

    I remember an interview early on in the series where she also said that Ron was based on her high school best friend. Perhaps she WAS having little regrets or what-ifs– this interview I saw was long before she married her current husband, and all her work on the books up until that point she was in an unhappy marriage at first and then single. So… who knows?

  • Anonymous

    Thank you for the information.

  • Zombiepeep

    I never thought of that — good point!

  • Brent Jones

    Ah. Thanks for the info!

  • Morgan

    My thoughts exactly! I read every single comment before writing this. I’m the only obsessive Potter fan I know so it pleased me to no end that everyone has put as much thought into everything as I have. Plus they turned me on to ships I didnt even know I needed. Potter fans are the best. It helps we have such an awesome mythology to work with, too.

  • Fiona

    I honestly only see Harry and Hermione as a brOTP, they were my brOTP growing up and Ron/Hermione was my OTP, so when it became canon I was very happy. Remus/Sirius WAS a ship of mine (though I didn’t know all of these terms back then), and it all started when I watched the movie and saw them together hugging so happy to see each other. My immediate question to my mother was, “Mommy, are they in love? Were they boyfriends?” My mom just shurgged and said “I don’t know, maybe” and from then on I shipped it. I started reading the HP series the day after POA had its television premiere, and at the age I was reading it at, a lot of little things (like Remus’ and Sirius’ chemistry) didn’t really jump out at me as easily on the page as they did on screen, but definitely once I re-read it I saw it.