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Great Hera!

Thor’s Jaimie Alexander On Wonder Woman: It’s Embarrassing For Me As A Woman

Thor star Jaimie Alexander’s name is one that pops up frequently on dream casting for Wonder Woman, and if you saw her kicking butt as Sif, you know why. But while the actress herself would love to play Diana, she’s not sure she actually would if asked. Why? Well because no one treats Wonder Woman with respect, of course. Click ahead to see the awesome truths Alexander laid down recently about women in superhero properties. 

Alexander was interviewed by MTV News about comic book roles in both the Marvel and DC realms.

“I used to be,” Alexander replied when asked if she’d be into playing DC Comics’ Wonder Woman, “and then I’ve seen how many failed attempts they’ve tried to make at re-making it and it’s embarrassing for me as a woman, seeing what they did with that TV show.” She was quick to add, ”It had nothing to do with that amazing actress Adrianne Palicki.”

She’s referencing of course the failed David E. Kelley Wonder Woman pilot for NBC which the creator himself recently said he’d still try to pursue in some fashion if The CW’s Amazon series doesn’t work out. “We made mistakes with ours. My only regret is we were never given a chance to correct them. We had a lot that was right about it and a great cast. In time, we could have fixed what we had done wrong, we just didn’t get that chance,” he said.

“Let’s talk about this for a second,” Alexander told MTV, “you’ve got very few female superheroes that are dominating films these days, unless they’re in a skin tight outfit and their boobs are pushed up to their chin, you know? And it’s not okay. It’s not.”

Moviegoers may recall a highly-capable, fully-clothed and armored Sif in Thor. I wonder how much of that was at Alexander’s insistence?

“There needs to be a positive role model,” she continued. “If you’re going to make Wonder Woman, make it like The Bourne Supremecy, you know. Let’s do something awesome like that. Like Alias was a fantastic show. Why can’t we do that? Why does she have to be in hot pants and spandex and all this stuff? And yeah, I get it, it’s visually stunning for, you know, half of the people, but at least make her grow a pair! I mean, I’m serious, ok. All she does is sit and eat ice cream while she’s crying over a boy. I know that never aired, but that’s what the script said and I was like, ‘What?!’”

“What?!” was the general consensus on Kelley’s Wonder Woman and while many are thankful it didn’t get a series order, it was disappointing to see the character fail because she wasn’t handled well. We may talk about these issues all the time but it’s nice hearing someone of Alexander’s status echoing our sentiments for a larger audience to hear. With her very valid issues in mind, would the actress play anyone besides Sif?

“I’m too old to play X-23. I’ve been told 100 times. It’s okay! I get it,” she said when asked about other heroines she’d want to play. “I always wanted to play Jubilee but missed that one too, I’m not a teenager anymore.”

Perhaps we can suggest other comic book characters for her to play but in the meantime, you can catch Alexander reprising the role of Sif in Thor: The Dark World come November.

(via MTV, image by Sue Schneider_MGP Agency)

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  • Captain ZADL

    How about Barda? She’s a character who can stand up to Wonder Woman on an equal footing, power wise, and I’m pretty sure has never once pined over Scot Free. As I recall, she pretty much just told him what the deal was.

    Or Jessica Drew, if she wants the more spy / investigator kind of thing.

  • Besomyka

    I think those comments just made me a fan of hers.

  • Anonymous

    “Let’s talk about this for a second,” Alexander told MTV, “you’ve got
    very few female superheroes that are dominating films these days, unless
    they’re in a skin tight outfit and their boobs are pushed up to their
    chin, you know? And it’s not okay. It’s not.”

    But a bare-chested Thor and Captain America are just fine? We’re talking SUPERHERO movies. Superheros are, by nature, physical specimens who wear skin-tight outfits. It comes with the territory.

  • Thalia Sutton

    The sad thing is, I’m sure there’s a 100 really good fanfics out there that would make better series than the ones that have been put-forth. Wasn’t there a comic at one point that showed her kicking ass with the Justice League while she went around the modern world being gleeful and yet brutal with everything? “What are these high sandals! They are useless for walking, but perfect for weapons!” –that sort of thing. Commentary on modern life and its complete lunacy once inspected. I would watch that forever.

    Personally, I would also adore a series, or an arc, or at least a Christmas Special, where Diana meets Thor and they go around smashing cups.

    Diana: “Is this how you do this, then? In Greece, we smashed plates for celebration! You might just be tolerable, strong man of the Barbarous Northern Tribes. Or at least, your appetite.”
    Diana: *grins and smashes plates on floor*
    Diana & Thor: “ANOTHER!”

    …yeah, like that. ;D

  • Pink Apocalypse

    Definitely Spider-Woman. I’m not just saying that because it’s my favorite character. I think she could really pull it off. And Kelley’s Wonder Woman was every bit as horrible people have claimed, and worse…

  • Joanna

    Wait…where are these bare-chested Thor and Captain America? I’m missing out here!

  • Anonymous

    Well Jubilee is also Asian so that’d be a horrible fit for a whole other set of reasons…
    She’d make a kickass Spider-Woman. Does Marvel Studios have the rights to her or is she under Sony’s umbrella?

  • Joanna

    I would watch the shit out of that.

  • Anonymous

    Did you see the movies?

  • Joanna

    What? I thought she was Native American! Damn, I need to reeducate myself on the X-verse. *hangs head in shame*

  • Lily Queen


    Superhero costumes show men as boys aspire to be (strong, powerful), and women as the girls that boys would like to ogle (purely designed for sexiness). That is a DOUBLE STANDARD. It sucks.

    There’s a great comic about this out there somewhere, but I think I’ve misplaced it.

  • Anonymous

    Nonsense. Thor, Captain America, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Batman, Spider-Man, all the Hulk movies, Wolverine, the upcoming Man of Steel (I could go on) ALL feature, at some point, the heroes shirtless.

    As for the costumes? Other than Iron Man and Batman, they’re all pretty skin tight. That seems to be a-okay for men, but when a female hero dons a skin tight outfit it’s misogynistic? THAT’S the double standard.

  • Jill Pantozzi

    Do Thor and Cap fight their battles bare-chested?

  • Joanna

    Yeah but they weren’t in battle bare chested. Captain America was topless during the experiment but that was for science!

  • Terence Ng

    2 seconds of Captain America and Thor being shirtless as civilians isn’t the same as them having costumes that feature them topless.

    Male superheroes being cheesecaked the way female superheroes are would be every male superhero dressed like Prince Namor (BEFORE he joined the X-Men). That Wonder Woman outfit must have been made with Wonder Tape for her to run in it.

    So unless in the sequel, Thor’s getting a zipper down through his breastplate and showing his man cleavage, that’s a false equivalency.

  • Terence Ng

    Yeah, they’re featured topless at SOME point, Then they change into an outfit that covers them head to toe or a sensible shirt and pants for the rest of the movie.

    Women wear superheroine outfits with boob-socks, tube tops, zippers down the front (because bullets aren’t a concern, apparently), and pants that inexplicably separate each ass cheek. As their costumes. For the entire movie.

    But hey, give them all the dudes a zipper where I can see as much man cleavage as I can for Catwoman, Wonder Woman, Power Girl, and Black Widow while in the heat of battle, then we’ll be even.

  • Anonymous

    Right. I can’t even with that excuse. Women are shown in sexy outfits through the male gaze. Wonder Woman often gets treated as the sexy female on the team. She’s written male gaze. It is embarassing. And guess what? The current treatment of her in the freaking Justice League book is part of that male gaze embarrassment. It’s always about making her alluring to men. But don’t worry…she gets to punch stuff so it’s ok! Except it’s not. Because she’s only allowed to be strong if she turns the men on first. It’s gross.

  • Anonymous

    Jubilee is Chinese-American. Her codename itself is supposed to be a pun since her last name is Lee. It’s an easy mistake to make because unfortunately a LOT of artists and colorists make her look like a white woman with blue eyes for some reason.

  • Edcedc8

    all topless thor 2: sif for me, thor for her.

  • Terence Ng

    I’d love to see Barda. But minus the cape. I’m pretty anti-cape, and hers is so large it’s GOT to be a hindrance.

  • Anonymous

    I’ll acknowledge that Wonder Woman’s outfit is pretty ridiculous. I think that’s THE big stumbling block from trying to move her from comics to movies or TV. You keep the outfit, the actress is going to look silly. You lose it and she’s really not Wonder Woman anymore. So what do you do?

  • Edcedc8

    I agree, but that doesn’t mean that chris evans topless isn’t designed to appeal to women and gay men.

  • Joanna

    Turn it into a porno while we’re at it lol! *insert Thor’s hammer joke here*

  • Edcedc8
  • Joanna

    Maybe if he was the only male in a predominately female cast in a movie aimed at women, yeah.

  • Kay Livingston

    “Appears once bare chested” is very different from “has an exploitative costume”. When Thor has a stomach cutout down to his happy trail and Cap has a bikini and high heels for armor, then I’ll come back and talk to you about the rest of the institutionalized wrong you’re defending.

  • Joanna

    Lol! Reminds me of Dr. Horrible.

  • Kay Livingston

    Perfect human being.

  • Joanna
  • Terence Ng

    I think you could Xena-fy it. In that regard, modern throwbacks to WW’s Amazon roots make it a bit more accurate and far less sexualized. She’s got a breastplate, maybe with the W across the chest, but it’s an actual breastplate, not a tube top. Xena’s was a corset/tube top, but I think you have room to make it sensible and suspended by actual straps.

    You can do the pants, which I never minded, personally (provided they’re not those sparkly latex things in the pilot) or you can do the actual pteruges (like said modern throwbacks), instead of hot pants.

    And I think that all makes sense because she’s always a warrior. I don’t think she’s interpreted in a sexual way the way Catwoman is supposed to be (even though artists sexualize the hell out of her anyway) and I think that a uniform that reflects that is acceptable to an audience.

  • strife

    Not all women have sexy outfits to please the male gaze. What about all the women who choose to cosplay in those sexy costumes? I don’t think you can generalize every sexy outfit down to the male gaze. There ARE women who like to dress sexy/skimpy. Sometimes it’s about self-love or pride, which is healthy.

    That being said, Wonder Woman is not a sexy character. She grew up without all the social stigmas of girly femininity. I hate it when her costume is drawn too small. Chiang draws it right – no plunging back or thong. It can be adapted in a practical way.

  • Vintango

    You are so correct, I mean there’s no difference between Wonder Woman’s costume that completely shows off both her bare legs as well as her shoulders, arms and chest and Superman’s, who simply wears a red speedo that shows off his bare legs as well as his exposed arms and che…wait, Superman is covered completely except for his head and hands? Oh, and so is Batman, Spiderman, Captain American, and pretty much every male hero ever? Hmm. HMMMMMMM.

    I guess there’s that sexy, sexy Hulk that shows off an equal amount of skin, and we all know what a total object of lust that hunk of green is. Totally exactly the same as all the female characters fighting crime in skimpy swimsuits. No difference. At all.

  • Angela Rivera

    Well, you can change it as in the X-Men movies and make a joke about it.

  • Michael Sacal
  • Anonymous

    I’d be in favor of them altering the costume to make it look more armored or at least something that looks more like something a warrior would wear. I’m not terribly invested in the practicality argument (because realistically most of these people wouldn’t be wearing masks or capes to begin with, (*Insert Incredibles “No capes!” scene*) but Alexander makes some great points here about the skintight outfits.

    It makes sense for someone like Black Widow, but not every heroine is Black Widow.

  • Anonymous

    Spider-Woman has no relationship with Spider-Man so I doubt Sony bought the rights for her. The problem might be that the character isn’t popular to get its own film.

    Of course, I say that while there’s a Guardians of the Galaxy movie in production…

    Anyway, Spider-Woman is british so she’s gonna have to work on her accent.

  • Anonymous

    The rights are very weird so I’m not sure if it’s so simple. Fox apparently is able to use Madame Hydra in the next Wolverine film even though she’s primarily a Captain America foe and originated in his book. So I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as “She’s not technically related to him as a character”.

  • Lisa Lacey Liscoumb

    I’d like to see her as Rogue. Never liked Anna Paquin in the role – she always seemed too young to me.

  • Elizabeth Amber

    She’d probably make a pretty great Lois Lane too.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    What about Kitty Pryde? The new X-Men film is coming out and there’s got to be an adult Kitty Pryde in Future effing Past, right? HER. Not, please, PLEASE, Ellen Page. Or Paige. …Page? I’m not looking it up right now. My phone is a jerk.

  • Rich Civil

    Much of the marketing of arrow has been about the star’s body appearance.

  • Anonymous

    Of course this all goes back to a much broader problem, which is that there are generally very few superheroes in the movies right now who aren’t white males. It’s what, War Machine and Black Widow over at Marvel? And then the Falcon and POSSIBLY Rescue in the works? So until there’s a greater diversity (in both gender and race) of superheroes being offered by Hollywood we’re gonna keep having these probems.

  • Joanna

    Aw but I like Ellen Page Paige Page =(

  • &ahappynewclaire

    Cosplaying is a costume designed to please the male gaze doesn’t make the male gaze irrelevant to the creation of said costume. This does not mean that a woman wearing one of these costumes is herself trying to appeal to men.

  • Beth Johnson

    “No capes!”

  • Joanna

    OMG yes! She has very similar features to the Lois of the 90′s animated series.

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Me too, but as Kitty? : /

  • Amanda W

    Alias, Buffy, Dark Angel… all great shows with ass-kicking females. Why? Because the bad-ass came before the sexy. In all three shows you see the FMC in everything from business suits to sexy leather to evening gowns – because women like to have a large wardrobe, duh – but all three women kick ass and get the job done and have interesting characters that women want to emulate. Let’s see that happen with Wonder Woman! Come on!

  • Joanna

    I just like her in everything. I have such a girl crush on her ^_^

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    Sigh…well, maybe if she’s not wearing the matrix uniform. I just pictured someone that could be a bit more rugged. She doesn’t strike me as action hero material. I realize I’m being prejudiced, but I think it’s the height thing…and yet Tom Cruise pulls it off. Maybe it’s more about angles. If they hadn’t spend a decade building her up as a pixie, maybe a few Dutch angles would convince me that she’s taller than she actually is. Or maybe I’m still mad about Hard Candy.

  • Anna Sophia May

    So would I!

  • Jamie Jeans

    Me too!

  • Jamie Jeans

    She couldn’t play Jubilee or X-23 because she’s neither Chinese nor Native, and there’s been enough whitewashing as it is.

    And frankly, I don’t blame her one bit for her reluctance in wanting to play Wonder Woman. It would have to be a really awesome script, the kind that’s written with the same amount of love and respect that other Superhero movies like the Marvel movies have been done with over the past few years.

    And it’s not like Wonder Woman’s been the only one to receive that treatment. Hell, look at the crappy design for Catwoman in Dark Knight Rises. As awesome as Anne Hathaway was as Selina Kyle, and she damned well stole the movie, the fact that they 1. Never ONCE called her Catwoman, denying her any superhero identity and 2. stuck her in those stupid ass high heeled steak knife boots despite how ultra-hardcore realistic Christopher Nolan was trying to make those movies just undermined her character.

    It’s like there had to be a catch to how awesome and competent they made Selina Kyle, hence the ultra-stupid steak knife high heels…

  • Joanna

    Hm… I’ve always seen Kitty Pryde represented as a kid in any of the X-mens I’ve come across. Being in Ireland I never had a decent source of comic books so I had to rely on the TV and movie versions.

    It’s actually insane how tiny Ellen Paige is. I saw her on a live talk show before and she looked smaller on that than in any of her movies. On saying that, I’d like to see her in a role that isn’t chosen for her because of her height. Not all adults are 6 feet tall. =P

  • Jamie Jeans

    Oh wow, false equivalence much…?

    Yeah, it sure as hell didn’t take too damn long for someone to come along and derail this topic with a “What abouts the men?!” counter-argument.

  • Joanna

    It was actually the lack of cowl that bugged the crap out of me the most =/

  • Guest

    Sorry, physical strength/muscled was never something I aspired to, was never a “male power fantasy,” which is a generalization. Physically powerful or athletic people or people in power/authority were bullies to me as a kid. My fictional role models were people, men and women, who were intelligent, witty, thoughtful, compassionate, gentle. Desiring power is what villains do.

  • Anonymous

    You’re confusing false equivalency with actual equivalency.

  • Anonymous

    It’s not that weird: the studios picked and chose whatever character they wanted and negociated a price. Madame Hydra can be in Wolverine because Fox wanted to use the character and since I don’t think any studio own the right to Captain America at the time of purchase, she was available.
    The reason I think Sony doesn’t own the rights to SW is that I don’t think there is any reason for them to spend money for that character.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Well now I like her even more.

    It’s sad, because she’s a fantastic actress who GETS it, y’know. And she LOOKS like the perfect Diana. She’s beautiful, yes, but she also just radiates a certain strength that Wonder Woman should have. She would be amazing as Diana.

  • Anonymous

    Not this boy. Sorry, but physical strength/muscled was never something I aspired to, was
    never a “male power fantasy,”for me, which is a generalization, anyway. Physically
    powerful or athletic people or people in power/authority were bullies to
    me as a kid. My fictional role models were people, men and women, who
    were intelligent, witty, thoughtful, compassionate, gentle. Desiring
    power is what villains do.

  • Laura Truxillo

    Oh yes. Both of those. I love both of those characters so much and she would be so good as either of them!

  • Terence Ng

    Well, there was her stint as Kitty Pryde: Agent of SHIELD…


  • Laura Truxillo

    The sad thing is, even when it’s not pushed for the male gaze, people assume that’s what the character is there for.

    Take Black Widow. Yup, wearing skin tight stuff, that’s true. But so were Cap and Hawkeye. Bruce got naked. Thor and Clint gave us arm porn, and Tony supplied the bedroom eyes. Cap is introduced through a close-up shot on his flexing bum.

    But that’s not their defining characteristic in the movie. And Natasha being sexy isn’t HER defining characteristic in the context of the movie either. We don’t get blatant “male gaze” shots for her that override her actual character.

    But when, say, SNL does it’s Avengers parody, they mock Widow for being The Sexy One, instead of The Serious One or the Professional or any other thing they could’ve exaggerated as a joke. Because if there’s a pretty lady in a superhero costume on film, we all know she’s there to be the eye candy.

  • John Wao

    My respect for Jaimie Alexander just went up tenfold.

  • Laura Truxillo

    The same could be said for a lot of superhero/villain outfits. Very few of them can go exactly from the comic page to the movie screen as they are and not look completely stupid. The best thing to do, really, is to rely on color/pattern cues that the public already associates with the character in question. (Like Bruce wearing the purple shirt instead of somehow acquiring purple pants. Or one of my favorites–Doc Ock’s muted brown-and-olive clothes being a call-back to his ridiculous villainous-secondary-colors get-up of orange and green.)

    Certainly don’t put her in a bathing suit. Heck, give her a Roman-style skirt thing, one that looks like old-fashioned armor. Make it blue, give it silver studs/stars. It’s entirely possibly to make what she wears look more like Greco-Roman armor (or whatever the general public thinks that is) than a thong.

  • Adonos

    for “reasons”

  • Anonymous

    Agree that is dumb when specific artists alter Diana’s costume to look more like lingerie, but I don’t see a problem with bared skin for some of her costumes (shouldn’t most heroes have a few different outfits for different occasions?). If they made it look more like athletic gear, it wouldn’t be pandering. Go look at what female summer Olympians wear, or this image of female Roman athletes (the legendary Amazons were probably Sarmatian, but this is closer in era):
    I would also agree there should balance, that there should be some male characters baring equal amounts of skin.

  • Adonos

    Well, there was a movie that had supermen designed to be sexy… was called….Batman and Robin….that sure went over well…..

  • Louis Gonzales

    I really got nothing against the skin tight clothes. Personally, when I read a comic, I don’t mind female superheroes with revealing costumes (Sometimes, that type of artistic freedom can really set the mood of the story), yet what I do find offensive are the poses. I mean, the male characters are posed showing strength and independence, yet the female characters are posed in a sexually suggestive way simply for the male audience of the story. It’s total cheese cake. I think we can agree that it’s okay to look at attractive characters and want to see them look attractive. I mean, you can totally have an interesting super heroine character even if she wears a skimpy super suit, but it gets pretty horrible when the only reason for the female character is to please the male audience and that’s it.

  • Anonymous

    Here (you have to go back to the 70′s and 80′s):


  • Anonymous

    Ditto. And Anna Paquin never seemed *nearly* sassy enough to me.

  • Anonymous

    This is what historically accurate for a Scythian or Sarmatian woman warrior would look like:

    But iconic imagery is more important to superheroes/comic book characters than realism.

  • Aeryl

    I always thought Eliza Dushku would make an awesome Rogue, especially after seeing that grey streak they put in her hair in Dollhouse.

    Of course, her character’d have to be rewritten as a sassy woman from Boston instead of the Bayou, but I could live with it.

  • Anonymous

    Power Man and Iron Fist did, before male creators/readers became conservative.

  • Anonymous

    Wait, isn’t X-23 cloned from Wolverine? He’s not First Nations, so she wouldn’t be either.

  • Anonymous

    A woman choosing to show her body is vastly different from the reality of a male dominant industry that operates from the male gaze viewpoint in a sexist culture.

    I like dressing sexy sometimes too. But I’m I’m control of the choice which is not at all the same thing here.

  • Terence Ng

    I think that’s if you decide to take it from the theory of Scythian or Srmatian women being the true inspiration for the Amazon legends. You could also pull from the mythological depictions in historical artifacts and come up with something that retains the iconography of her costume:

  • Terence Ng

    I think iron Fist is debatable. It’s still a part of his costume to this day, but really it’s just there to show off his chest markings.

    I think the only character who fits the bill (and still fits the bill) is Namor. He went from speedo-wearer to upon pseudo-vest wearer (but with pants) within the past decade.

    Too bad they gave Luke Cage a regular t-shirt. :/

  • Not So Young Democrat

    The bigger problem for Jaime Alexander in playing Jubilee is that she’s not Asian. They whitewashed her for that awful tv movie years ago but given the dearth of quality parts for Asian American actresses, particularly in action films, that’s something you’d want to avoid.

    From what I’ve heard the David Kelley Wonder Woman pilot was an abomination, but I’m not sure Alexander’s idea for the character works much better. They’ve tried Diana as a secret agent before and I don’t think it works very well. I was a huge fan of at least the first couple of seasons of Alias but that’s not Wonder Woman to me (and I should also point out that Sydney Bristow spent a fair amount of time weeping on that show too. After all JJ Abrams logline for the show was “What if Felicity worked for the CIA”)

    But I think there’s a lot of problems in developing a Wonder Woman property for live action. I looked on IMDB and while there’s a lot of Wonder Woman credits out there it seems that just about all of them since Lynda Carter have either been animated, video games, or satirical. “Serious” live action portrayals of Diana are few and far between. And part of that IS the costume. All of these superhero movies have had the issue of translating costumes, which were designed for the drawn medium of comics, to live action. Spider-man was pretty much faithful to the comics version. Captain America went the Ultimates route and made his outfit a bit more militarized. Xmen just junked the existing costumes altogether (except for Storms which, by coincidence came out fairly close to her early 90s costume). But I think these problems are especially acute for Wonder Woman. The costume is one of the most iconic super hero costumes ever and would be instantly recognizable to much of the public. But it’s also a profoundly silly costume, especially in terms of something an actual actress would have to wear. But her story is also much fuzzier than some of the other heroes. While we all have some idea of the story and setting of Batman there’s less on Wonder Woman. She’s not tied to a particular fictional city, her rogues gallery isn’t as established as Batman or Superman, her story is vaguer except in that she comes from Paradise Island. Batman is motivated by the death of his parents, but what makes Wonder Woman do what she does? She’s got the romance with Steve Trevor, but what’s the obstacle there? With Superman it’s that Lois likes the dynamic Superman but Clark wants to like him for his mild mannered civilian identity. With Wonder Woman what’s the problem? Superman’s about being the ultimate boy scout. Batman is about being the tortured urban avenger. What’ the hook for Wonder Woman? I think these problems are present in the comics too. Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of “The Big Three” but she’s clearly of lesser status than Batman or Superman. While those two have spawned whole lines built off of them Wonder Woman hasn’t. While they’ve been in continuous publication since their first appearance, Wonder Woman hasn’t. Some of this is attributable to sexism among the comics reading public, but I think some of this is due to the less defined nature of her character. While Batman and Superman remain somewhat constant in premise, Wonder Woman always seems to lurch from concept to concept as new creators take over her title.

    That’s why I think that Amazon might stand the best chance of actually bringing Diana to the screen in a workable way. By focusing on a younger pre-Wonder Woman Diana they can avoid some of the problems her concept presents. Another solution might be similar to what Captain America did where they embraced the cheese. That movie reminded me a lot of Johnston’s earlier movie The Rocketeer in that it presented a stylized portrait of the 40s wherein the cartoony aspects of Cap’s character seemed to make perfect sense. I think you could do a similar thing with Wonder Woman in WWII just arriving in “Man’s World”.

  • Not So Young Democrat

    No. About the only male hero who regularly does is Namor (although his more recent costumes cover up his chest more). I read a discussion of skimpy costumes somewhere where he was used as an example of it from the male perspective and the author pointed out that his costume makes sense because 1) he’s underwater much of the time and 2) Namor seems like the kind of guy who would want everyone to see his body all the time.

  • Not So Young Democrat

    Well Barda isn’t pining away for him cause she got him. They’re married. But she does throw away her life on Apocalypse, including a leadership position with the Female Furies, because she falls in love with him.

  • strife

    It’s not different if the designs are identical because that proves there is no inherent sexist quality within the design. The male/female gaze has been challenged in contemporary feminism. Calling complex cultures sexist is also a generalization that should be challenged. The comic book industry specifically the big 2 are not sexist by definition. They are guilty of inequality for a variety of reasons, but that’s not enough to label them as sexist.

  • Zaewen

    There is a huge gulf of difference between an artist creating and designing a sexified Wonder Woman and someone else choosing to take on that costume for cosplay. I’m pretty sure that’s because the latter has what we call agency and the former is literally an object created to elicit desire from the male gaze.

    Also just because a woman chooses to wear a sexy cosplay outfit does not strip the sexist and patriarchal origins away from that outfit. She may be doing it to enjoy herself for various reasons, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is enjoying herself with a problematic patriarchal paradigm.

  • Zaewen

    There is a huge gulf of difference between an artist creating and designing a sexified Wonder Woman and someone else choosing to take on that costume for cosplay. I’m pretty sure that’s because the latter has what we call agency and the former is literally an object created to elicit desire from the male gaze.

    Also just because a woman chooses to wear a sexy cosplay outfit does not strip the sexist and patriarchal origins away from that outfit. She may be doing it to enjoy herself for various reasons, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is enjoying herself with a problematic patriarchal paradigm.

  • Anonymous

    As much as I love Natalie Portman, I honestly think I’d enjoy seeing a bit more Sif this time around. I know I’ve fallen in love with this actress. She’s always so chipper and up beat in interviews, she makes me smile. :)

  • Chanel Diaz

    …”but at least make her grow a pair! I mean, I’m serious, ok.”

    A pair of what? Boobs? I wasn’t aware Wonder Woman had none.

    SERIOUSLY, I Feel for what she Basically Said, but I can never Understand why WOMEN Choose to use such Language that was Largely Pushed by Men about once again ‘Over-Glorifying’ Male Genitalia.

    Which, whaddaya know, brought us into this Particular Predicament. *Rolls Eyes*

  • Adam R. Charpentier

    :P And none of us can really walk through walls. I see your point. Agreed…it could work. And sometimes when you take actors out of their element, they sparkle.

  • Nick Gaston

    So, for the record…it WOULD be okay to have the heroine in a skintight outfight, as long as it’s mostly to show she has enough muscle mass to beat a Buick in a fistfight?

    Hmmm…I actually think I could make that work…

  • Edcedc8

    I think this movie will need a topless girl in it, to attract male audience members.

  • Edcedc8

    yeah, because you can’t see each ab muscle on superman.

    its a fictional character drawn with exagerated anatomy. exaggerated

  • Edcedc8

    I disagree, I think if wonder woman wore a pair of pants, not only would that be more dignified, but just to piss off ultra pc types, I’d like to say a lot sexier in a pair of tight leather pants.

  • Joanna

    Lol! Daire O Briain made a skit of that in his latest stand up. He calls it the “something for the dads” and scoffs at the idea that men can’t concentrate on anything unless it makes them horny. It was excellent, I never laughed so hard.

  • Anonymous

    Because policing other women’s language makes you feel superior? And not another tool who thinks women need to be perfect all the time or our opinion does not count…

  • Chanel Diaz

    No, I don’t feel Superior, Jaimie obviously cares about Women’s Issues. I’m asking women who say they Believe such things should really think about the Everyday Sexism they Help to Perpetrate. Subliminal Messages get Passed Along Culture to keep Society in Line and since we Live in a Patriarchy, Everyday Sayings are Laced with the Superiority of Male-Anything, Especially, of the Male Genitalia.

    I Try to Not just Talk/Write before Thinking and Research the History or Source Behind such Popular Words & Phrases. I’ve Noticed what “Grow a Pair” Meant not because of some “Urban Dictionary (Most of the Definitions are about Testicles, I’m Assuming that’s where it Came from Originally, but try to ‘Prove’ me wrong, if you can. ),” but by the Context and the way the Phrase is Used by People. Are you going to tell me “Grow a Pair” wasn’t started by men about “Testicles?” And somehow in the Context of people aren’t Appreciative of Female Heroes, saying women should “Grow a Pair” is really going to give us Respect as FEMALES?

  • Brenda/Lysana/either

    And if the entire industry centered on selling their stuff to twentysomething white heterosexual women, sure. And women had social power. And men had to worry about being raped and objectified on a daily basis.

  • Brian

    And her first name is Jubilation. That is… Maybe Mr. and Mrs. Lee were hippies.

  • Nicole Elizabeth Currie


  • Nicole Elizabeth Currie

    New OTP? Possibly.

  • Anonymous

    I know right? Like they have not enough white characters to draw, they still have to make the Asian character look as white as possible.

  • Anonymous

    It’s a very fine line. The problem is that many times the woman wearing the outfit (in Wonder Woman’s case a strapless bathing suit) is usually the lone woman on a team of men. It’s very easy for it to get exploitative and gross very quickly.

  • Anonymous

    It’s funny because her comment actually lines up pretty closely with something Amy Adams said a few months back. Amy basically said that while she wasn’t taking a shot at the sexy superhero costumes that she thought it was vital that women saw women in superhero films who weren’t wearing sexy costumes and were saving the world, in part, through just being a regular woman outside of that sexy image. She was basically saying that she thought Lois Lane was vital, in part, because she becomes a hero through her job and isn’t presented as a sex object. I’d say Amy and Jaime probably agree on alot of things in this regard.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t think the problem is Wonder Woman as a concept. I think the problem is that DC Comics has refused to take steps to actually putting Diana’s franchise in a position where she is marketable.

    You mention Diana’s supporting cast. Yes, that’s huge. You are correct that Superman and Batman both have deeply developed worlds of their own that people identify with. Lois Lane has been the co-headliner of her own TV show several times over with Superman at this point. Their relationship is cemented publicly because for decades now we’ve seen it play out in different ways over and over again. We feel like we know how they should be portrayed before we even see them on screen because we know them at this point.

    Wonder Woman has never had that luxury and part of the reason is because DC treats her like a second class citizen. They don’t take time to develop her own supporting cast—they treat her as a supporting player in someone else’s story.

    The new 52 was one step forward, two steps back in that regard. Brian Azzarello took steps to really focus on Wonder Woman and give her her OWN story but in doing so he also gutted many of the most feminist elements of the story. Diana is a member of the team on Justice League but DC also has her stuck in this awful relationship with Superman as opposed to taking the time to actually DEVELOP her own narrative with Steve Trevor and Etta Candy and giving her her OWN narrative that can become iconic on her own and isn’t tied to another male hero.

    So there are lots of problems here that contribute to the issue you are talking about. I agree with you that Amazon might be a chance for this to finally change. It MIGHT be. But, as per usual, when it comes to Wonder Woman, she’s seen as a sex object first to DC Comics and a hero in her own right second.

  • Anonymous

    Of course he does but you are missing the point. First off, Chris Evans had his shirt off for like 30 seconds in that movie. After that point, he then was clothed and covered for the rest of the film and not sexualized at all.

    Third, that movie was run by men. The men were in CONTROL of the imagery.

    Do you not get how different it is for women in male dominated industries where their very relevance and livelihood is often dependent on what a MAN Tells them to do and how to present themselves. It’s about control.

  • Anonymous

    I teach contemporary feminism at a major University so I’m well aware of the conversations that take place in this regard. I’m paid to know it and I’m well educated on the subject.

    The reality is that even in the year 2013 American culture is steeped in troubling gender commentary and sexism (and racism) that is so “normal” to us now that we don’t even know that we are perpetuating it half the time. We are so conditioned to the inequality that we don’t even see it half the time. It does not make it any less damaging or real.

    Do I think there is an inherent sexism to the costume that MARSTON developed for Diana? No, I don’t. But then again, the costume that Diana currently wears in the comics is NOT the costume that Marston envisioned for her and he’d probably role over in his grave if he saw the way she was drawn and portrayed these days.

    Is the Big 2 sexist? They absolutely are. They operate in a male dominant industry and often incorporate everyday sexism that goes unnoticed and/or is brushed off and/or is just considered “not worth their concern” on a regular basis in their storytelling choices, their art and the way they hire within their company.

  • Edcedc8

    yes, I do ‘get’ that.
    and I am not missing the point. I am engaging on a different point.

  • leelooleela

    I know it still has it’s problems (bare arms/legs/boob tube), but I quite like what Stjepan Sejic did with the outfit, making it a bit more armour-like.

  • Life Lessons

    Two words: Joss Whedon. Oh WB you blew it big.

  • strife

    Those motivations are assumptions that cannot be isolated. The idea that “sexiness” is patriarchal/male in origin doesn’t hold up. Is there really patriarchal female sexiness versus matriarchal female sexiness? These are fallacies that ignore Natural sexuality, as in the nude form as it exists in nature and biological sexual drives.

    So no; there is no difference unless you want assume motivations and make generalizations. A person can wear sexy costumes to elicit sexual desire or they can wear the same costume for different reasons or a multitude of reason. Similarly, a creator can design a sexy looking character for a variety of reasons. It doesn’t all boil down to victimization by male gaze. Contrary to past iterations of Wonder Woman, it isn’t man’s world vs. paradise island. The truth is more complicated than that as current Feminism advances to understand.

  • Rizz Rustbolt

    Jaime Alexander as Miranda Zero?

  • Carmen Sandiego

    I think the problem was the horrible script, dialogue, plot….

  • Anonymous

    Someone needs to issue a restraining order against Kelley – he shouldn’t be allowed within 100ft of any superhero – least of all Wonder Woman!
    Alexander would make a fantastic Diana – she already IS an amazon!

  • natamaxxx

    Wait, isn’t Diana of Greek origin? As much as I like Jaimie, wouldn’t casting her just be more “white washing”? When considering actresses to play Wonder Woman, I really wish more people would take into consideration that she isn’t, in fact a white girl…

  • natamaxxx

    I’m with her 1000% on this! If they would just STOP trying to “improve” Wonder Woman every time someone takes over writing for her (comic, tv, movie, whatever) she would probably have a project worthy of the character right now. The David E. Kelly project was just pure ASS through and through! From the costume, to the premise, to the script…ugh! Jaimie is also right about the costume. WW will not be taken seriously in star spangled hot shorts and a strapless push up bra. There can be a way of designing a modern and functional costume that contains enough elements to honor the classic one.

  • RMCoyote

    Plus, when it’s EVERY woman… urgh.

    I want at least 1/4th of the characters (of both genders) to wear more than skin-tight clothes. A trench or jacket over a spandex suit is acceptable. It’s just especially bad with girls because it’s tight + super revealing (guys don’t usually have low v-necks and no legs on their outfit) + they are in the minority, which all = messed up.

  • RMCoyote

    You need to watch the “how fetuses develop” video.

    No, seriously. Look- many feminists like myself often use “grow a pair” as a catch all for the testies/overies because hey! Same object, and the ovaries are obviously superior thanks to the fact they are kept safe and not hangin’ out for anyone to kick.

    Is that what she means? Who knows. We don’t know her.

    But honestly, I’m really sick of people thinking every freakin’ word a person says is SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE OMG BRAINWASHING /flails.

    Look, believe it or not humans are smart. How about instead of panicking that a handful of phrases will RUIN FEMINISM /flails, we focus on introducing more vocabulary to the mix to give options? Because “grow a pair” is a great phrase, hilarious, and it tends to be used gender neutrally despite it’s origins being masculine.

    Of course, I fall on the side of “context + redefining/reclaiming is the way to go”, which means unless a person is using something in a sexist manner I don’t give a rat’s behind whether the roots of the phrase is sexist.

    TL’DR- I’m sick of people jumping on the tiniest thing wrong and acting so freakin’ condescending about someone who is doing most of their talk right, and who in context are kick ass feminists. Someone using “grow a pair” does not oppress me as a woman, shockingly. And one person’s feminism isn’t anothers. For all you know, she could have thought about those phrases and come out like I have, or others have, with a differing opinion. Don’t assume you know or can dictate someone elses’ feminism.

  • Chanel Diaz

    “You need to watch the “how fetuses develop” video.”

    I was Already Made Aware, even Before The Mary Sue Posted This:

    “But honestly, I’m really sick of people thinking every freakin’ word a person says is SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE OMG BRAINWASHING /flails.”

    You should Probably start Paying Attention to the TV, Movies, Internet, Video Games, and etc. to know what ‘Sexist Culture’ is,
    instead of just Mindlessly Taking in All the Information. If not, why are you even on THE MARY SUE, which Talks about Collective Mediums and how they Perpetrate Sexist Culture by what they ‘Say’ and ‘Do,’ while Discussing All the Positive Actions Done by Them. You Also Best to Take the Concept ‘Brainwashing’ Seriously, or just ‘Give Up’ Feminism, altogether, if “Sexism Is Just Human Nature,” and not just Beliefs “Pushed” by Sexist Elitists Mostly In Charge of Society, ‘Today.’

    I can’t get past a Series on TV Today (Even Those Rated “OK”
    For ‘Kids.’), that doesn’t use Phrases like “Don’t be such a Sissy/P*ssy/Girl,” or Say for Different Reasons, “Girly,” “Woman,” “Lady,” or “B*tch” to mean something ‘Bad’ rather than ‘Good.’ Or the way ‘Bad Females Characters’ are Treated so much Worse than ‘Bad Male Characters,’ by either the Other Characters, the Fandom, or Both.

    I’ve always known Humans and just about every other Living
    and Non-Living Thing has Stick-Like & Ball-Like Parts, and Some DO Come In Pairs, to their Assembly. But Too Much in Society is anything Stick-Like (Sword, Worms, Sticks, etc.) and Ball-Like (Round Rocks, Doughnut Balls, Orbs, Balls, Etc.) So Strongly and Constantly ‘Suggested’ to be Penises and Testicles, Respectively, rather than just BASIC SHAPES That Only Grow More Detail to Be Specific Objects.

    You speak the Contrary, but I’ve just never really ‘Seen or
    Even Heard of the Idea’ of “Grow a Pair” being used in a way of ‘Suggesting’ Womanhood or just Adulthood, if you’re claiming they’re so Gender-Neutral in their Use.

    “Is that what she means? Who knows. We don’t know her.”

    I don’t have to ‘Know’ People to see a ‘Pattern.’ Like I said, from my Experience and the Growing Up in a “Patriarchy” that Worships Male Genitalia while Demonizing Female Genitalia and Other Parts (Breasts), What am I Suppose To THINK?

    Or by what you Suggest of just “Brushing It Off” I.E. ‘NOT THINKING About It?’ I ‘Prefer’ Not to Act like a Computer that Doesn’t Question it’s Preprogrammed Language Function like Some People.

    What Separates Human Beings from Animals and Computers is Critical Thinking and Self-Awareness.

    It’s like what kind of Sensible Person Doesn’t Question the Nonsensical Action of Someone Cutting Themselves (Unlike Physical Self-Mutilation, Sexism Hurts ‘Every’ Female.) when they ask for ‘Pain Relief?’

    “How about instead of panicking that a handful of phrases will RUIN FEMINISM /flails, we focus on introducing more vocabulary to the mix to give options? Because “grow a pair” is a great phrase, hilarious, and it tends to be used gender neutrally despite it’s origins being masculine.”

    I did say “Grow a Pair” was a “Literal Ambiguous Order,” and things like “Taking Back Language.” Which you seem to be Implying you’re Fan Of. Me, too, btw. And Along with “Creating New Vocabulary,” I’m Also a Fan of “Redefining Vocabulary,” Especially ‘Negative’ Vocabulary. If you Read Enough of the Dictionary, you’ll Soon Notice just how MANY Negative Words there are for Females than for Males and just how MANY Positive Words for Males than for Females. As long as People Agree ‘Communication’ is Critical in Relationships, Language, How it’s Said, What’s Said, are IMPORTANT as they Often Lead to Physical Actions and ‘Reflect’ Society as a Patriarchy.

    “Look, believe it or not humans are smart.”

    I’d Laugh if I were Cynical Enough, but not for the Ones in CHARGE, nor the Victims who GIVE IN to their Own Victimization. If Humans are so smart, why is there so much Rampant Sexism going on in the World, like for just ONE EXAMPLE, ‘Women’ PURPOSELY are Aborting Female Fetuses as a Demonstration of Female’s “Inert Worthlessness” in India and Slowly Leading their own Racial Group to Extinction ( )?

    With no one (From My Experience) Stepping Up, Saying, and
    Enforcing, “Grow a Pair” and Other Sayings are Gender-Neutral, while Men are Continuing to say “Grow a Pair” Means “Grow Testicles,” ANY woman who says it comes off as a Permissive Individual (Just Taking in the Sexist Bias of Male Genitalia is Better Female Genitalia.) rather than a Active One (Educating Female Genitalia is just as Valuable as Male Genitalia.). I Already said Women are not Appreciated for their Genitalia, I don’t Ever Feel Comfortable using the Word ‘P*ssy’ to Refer to Female Genitalia for how it’s So Often Used as as a Word for Cowardice and Weakness, while Seemingly, on it’s own, just Personally “Sounds” too “Disrespectful,” to Mean ‘Female Genitalia,’ to me (As I see Female Genitalia as Strong, Not Weak.).

    Women get called Sl*ts (Rather than Sexy or Something Nicer Saying.) just for Expressing their Sexuality. AND as long as Women Still Call Other Women, Degrading and Sexual Shameful Vocabulary like Sl*ts , Wh*res, etc. More Times than the Opposite, while men get called Pimps, Studs, Heartthrobs. Etc., I’m INCLINED to believe Female Genitalia is Not Appreciated, Not Seen as Powerful and if WOMEN want that NOT to be the Case than ALL Better Start ‘Preaching’ Pro-Female Genitalia Before They Start Practicing it, because Those that DO Care may Not be actually Helping, when they TRY.

    “Of course, I fall on the side of “context + redefining/reclaiming is the way to go”, which means unless a person is using something in a sexist manner I don’t give a rat’s behind whether the roots of the phrase is sexist.”

    THAT’S THE THING! There is NO CONTEXT. From My First Post, I haven’t a Clue from what she ‘Meant’ because of my EXPERIENCES. It may look like there’s Context from what she said with that Phrase in her Interview, but because she Didn’t or Hasn’t said Earlier to Clear Away the Ambiguity of the Phrase that’s Often Meant to Mean “Testicles” Mostly and said she meant “Ovaries (Note: The Urban Dictionary DOESN’T even give ‘Ovaries’ a Slight Mention like Breasts, at all.)” or “Breasts” there would be No Questioning her Use of the Phrase from me.

    Sadly, “Controversy’s” like this one are just going to keep Persisting, if Culture Keeps Praising Male Genitalia Over Female Genitalia, while Women ‘Without Explanation & Thought’ Continue Using Ambiguous Phrases and Sayings by Men, for Men, to Mean their Male Genitals (As Sexist Men just Love to have the Whole Universe Revolve Around Them.).

    Simply, Despite your Claims, I’ve never even seen Feminists Populating the Phrase as a Gender-Neutral Phrase Meaning Both Female & Male Genitalia as Powerful Symbols. I’ve seen Sl*t Walks, P*SSY Riots, B*tch Magazine, and although I will Argue Against the “Positivity” of those Words Used for ‘Females,’ because I ‘Feel’ & ‘Think’ those Words as ‘Negative’ Ones, where’s the “Grow a Pair” Website, Magazine, Organization, or Multiple Articles “Claiming” this Phrase like those Words? I would actually get BEHIND that ONE, unlike the Rest, if I Heard of it, but as I Said, I HAVEN’T. Where did YOU Hear This, that’s made YOU Under the Impression EVERY Feminist has At Least Become Aware About This Rendition of “Grow a Pair?”

  • Kelly Green Redwine

    I think your argument about proper use of words might have come across as having more weight if you used your words properly. By which I mean, lay off the unnecessary capitalization, please!

  • Thalia Sutton

    I love you for this.

    And can you imagine the possibilities with Loki?! He wouldn’t know what to do, with TWO of them!

    Diana, to Loki: You are a fine man. But much too skinny! Eat meat! Here, have leg of lamb!
    Loki: Did I … just … I think I just got a compliment. Sort of. I need an adult! D:

  • Thalia Sutton


  • Chanel Diaz

    Check it now. You’re welcome. And the Text still ‘all caps’ isn’t mine, but from the ‘reply’ above.

    I’ll keep that in mind in future discussions about ‘serious’ matters, it’s just that I keep mixing my proper English class writing with my internet-style writing. I only try to use ‘all caps’ as a last resort when I can’t figure out how to ‘italicize.’

  • Jill Pantozzi

    I believe the commenter meant “unnecessary capitalization” and not “all-caps.” In all of your comments on the site you capitalize random words for, seemingly, no reason. I’ve wondered why you do this myself.

  • Chanel Diaz

    Internet-style of writing from force of habit. Sorry and I’ll be sure to correct that in the future.

  • hinoema

    Well, there’s skin tight and there’s ridiculous. The only way to have the male equivalent of the female cat-suit would be if the fabric of the trousers perfectly outlined and separated each testicle. (And no, that’s NOT a suggestion! *blerh*)

  • hinoema

    THIS. Plus, if I see Portman giggle at Thor one more time, I’ll reach through the screen and slap her.

  • Thomas Wild
  • mellyhugs

    I think you make a great point. Female heroes should be allowed to be sexy – SOMETIMES. There is no need for them to be tarted up on a regular basis. Alias was a great example of that. The only time Sydney was overtly sexy was when she was using it as a tool to achieve a goal.

  • Anonymous

    She’s brilliant! 100% right about everything.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly. Sometimes clothes are supposed to be form fitting for better aerodynamics or better movement or whatever. Skin tight, but uselessly revealing is just dumb, as are the sexual poses. Remember the ridiculous Mary Jane (not a super heroine, but still) pose that was going around? The attempts to replicate it cracked me up:

  • Anonymous

    Also, I just came across this little winner…a guy trying to replicate the poses of women on the covers of fantasy books:

  • Anonymous
  • Sara Potter

    Whew. With all due respect to the biological back-and-forth, I say “grow a pair” sometimes too…but if I’m talking about women, I’m talking about ovaries. My reasons are linguistic and cultural, since that sort of terminology was used frequently in Spain when I lived there in the late 90s/early 00s, and I’ve heard it quite a bit in various circles since returning stateside. It makes sense; they are both gonads, after all. Who knows what she meant? To be entirely fair, you’re the one who assumed she was talking about testicles.

  • Anonymous
  • Chanel Diaz

    To be fair, I used to not even know what “pair,” in “grow a pair” meant, until the “public” “educated” it to me.’

    I.E. I looked it up on the internet, and mostly everyone implied “pair” meant ‘testicles.’ And the fact that mostly men use it when referring to other men, while saying things like “don’t be a ‘sissy’” and”p*ssy (they use it to mean vagina, not that I agree with that definition)” it’s like I always experienced a “constant reenforcement” of this cultural phrase about “male genitalia pride.” Not only that, I see enough women shaming other women for just ‘expressing’ their sexuality, while even using “sissy” as a ‘weak’ word, so it’s hard for me to believe, that women SUDDENLY are expressing “female genitalia pride,” all of a sudden.

    In the context of some internet “slang dictionaries” like “The Urban Dictionary (” and NO Feminist groups making a sub-group of women “claiming” the terms like “Nuts, Pairs, Balls, Sacks, Nutsacks, Ballsacks, Seeds/Seedsack, Nads,” such as what has ‘B*tch Magazine,’ ‘Sl*t Walks,’ and even the ‘P*ssy Riots’ have done, I “can’t help” but question women who use the phrase when referring to other women, because I don’t know if people like Jaimie are just saying ‘culturally weighted phrases’ like that just because it’s “popular” or if they truly are “reclaiming” it for “ovaries.” If I had seen women just TELL people what they MEAN when they say those phrases, like “grow a pair” when we’re living in a “patriarchy,” a LITTLE ‘reassurance’ goes a LONG way.

  • Anonymous
  • sheila porter

    DC Made an animated direct-to-DVD Wonder Woman movie in 2009 which has a lot of that sort of commentary. I really enjoyed it!

    The high heels line you mention was in the deleted scenes (sadly), but she did use one as a weapon in a fight scene, and had a bunch of other lovely moments with snarky social commentary. I highly recommend it!

    Unfortunately, there is no Thor or plate smashing. :(

  • sj286

    I love the animated movie they did. as part DC Universe direct to video series I think its excellent. All they have to do is just make it like that one but in live action and it will be awesome!

  • Jackie Seamon

    Wonder Woman is white appearing though, as quite a few Greek people are, so it wouldn’t be a stretch to also have a white person play her.

  • Jezzer

    Yes, it is exaggerated. Male superheroes are drawn with exaggerated musculature, to emphasize power. Female superheroes are drawn with exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics, to emphasize BOOBS.

    And then, to add injury to insult, the women are always drawn in tortured, provocative poses, where it’s all out on display for the drooling male eye. Because dislocated spines are sexy, you see.

  • Edcedc8

    good point on those gross poses, however that doesn’t change the fact that essentially superman looks like a guy with blue bodypaint and a red speedo.

  • Jezzer

    The point is intent. Superman is drawn to appeal to male readers as something to envy and aspire to. Superman gets a neck-to-toe, full body suit. His muscles are on display, but his ass and genital area are as bulgeless and non-threatening as a Ken doll. Meanwhile, Power Girl gets a high-cut unitard with a window for her boobs, and Supergirl flies around in a damn miniskirt.

    If male characters in comics were given the same presentation as female characters, there would be a goddamn uproar from straight male fans. Don’t believe me? What’s the one thing EVERYONE remembers about Schumacher’s “Batman and Robin”? Three words: “rubber bat nipples.”

  • Edcedc8

    namor. :P

    I get what you are saying, and my minor spot on the autism spectrum can make it hard to get the thoughts I have out of my fingers – but that blue suit is fictional, namor and superman are wearing the same amount of clothes IMO.

    I’m not arguing about women characters being sexualised, I die a little when I see wonder woman in a thong, as my mother was one of the first cosplayers in australia, way back in the 60′s she dressed as wonder woman, so nowadays I see WW as someone who should be respected first, and considered a fierce fighter, amazing diplomat, crusader for dc women’s rights, military genius, friend to all good people, and a cultural leader.
    recalling that incident as a boy, combined with my difficulty with the disconnect between reality and fantasy – e.g. some comedian makes fun of your haircut and, knowing full well it was a joke, you still obsess over it all night until you can talk to the comedian afterwards and ask him if he really doesn’t like your haircut in private, just to hear what you already knew – it was only a joke – made the sexualization of the character infuriating as a boy, and annoying as a teen.

    in fact that’s why I was looking forward to wonder woman wearing pants, not only would it be more respectable, which is good, it would also mean she would be more sexy, but in a ‘commanding’ way. more diana rigg than baywatch.
    also, I seem to remember that nightwing when drawn by mcdaniel would get letters about his great ass, just fyi.
    anyways, thank you jezzer for the great talk.

  • Nicole Elizabeth Currie

    I like it.

  • Jeffrey Penelope

    How about Domino?

  • Thalia Sutton

    Thanks for the note! :) Gotta watch it for sure.

  • Richard John Warren

    Would she consider it if Joss (Whedon, of course) wrote and directed it?

  • George Foryan

    Although this legend may not be popular among many in the States, and quite unknown, the ancient legend of Queen Semiramis of Babylon would be a perfect role for Jaimie Alexander. And this is not a super character of the DC Comics based upon a sexually illustrated heroine strutting her stuff among us mortals. This is a story of a beautiful, dark, mysterious, powerful woman ruling a large, palatial empire of antiquity in a time when only men were chosen to rule. The story has all the droppings of mystery, intrigue, volatility, romance, battle scenes among an historical backdrop of ancient Assyria & Babylon (it is not a biblical setting). Hollywood tried to make a movie, a B movie about her in an early 1960′s, “Queen of Babylon” with Rhonda Fleming and Richardo Montalban but by today’s standards….it is quite lame. With today’s modern filming techniques with computerized models and elaborate special effect…This modern day “sword & sandal” setting would give “Spartacus, Game of Thrones, Legend of the Seeker, The Vikings” and many others a run for the money. Queen Semiramis has class and substance, intrigue and mystery, romance and deception, and overall enjoyment for people who like these ancient tales. See pictures of Jaimie adorned as this great queen on some of her Facebook pages and decide for yourself. Thank you!

  • George Foryan

    Outside of Jaimie playing Wonder Woman, I believe a much classier and substantial part for her to play is the Legend of Queen Semiramis of ancient Assyria and Babylon.How many would agree?

  • Jeremy Parks

    The days of men being men and women being women were the last of a sane world.

  • Anonymous

    nope, in fact script had them both put on shirts before the scene ended (if memory serves).

    And in Cap’s case he put on a shirt right before the action/destruction/death/call to action/etc started; I’m not saying it’d be *better* if he was shirtless while chasing down Sir Guy [I mean the 5th Column/Nazi/HYDRA Spy] but it is kinda odd in hindsight:
    Shirtless Scrawny Guy->Shirtless Muscly Guy->”put a shirt on him”->ok cue action lol

  • Anonymous

    also Hercules in Marvel while not always fully bare-chested; he only wears a sash no shirt most of the time (related: Sorbo Herc rocked the open-shirt pecs when not w/o said open shirt)

  • Anonymous

    yeah they worked better with the open-shirt look; Iron Fist still does sometimes like in Daughters of the Dragon, but I think in trying to pull Luke Cage away from his original “Blacksploitation” look and “Power Man” name they ditched the open shirt

  • Anonymous

    absolutely this :)

    I hated that SNL sketch and hated that Renner participated in it :(

  • Anonymous

    I remember in “Superman Returns” where Superman floats into orbit and listens to the shouts of Earth to try to thwart robberies. Imagine Wonder Woman doing the same…but preventing violence against women in the process.

  • Anonymous

    Jaime Alexander is the real deal. My friend Kalman did the covers for the X-23 series and met Alexander when she did a signing at the Silver Snail while promoting the first Thor, and she gushed over what a big X-23 fan she was when the owner introduced Kalman as the cover artist, and expressed exuberant interest in playing X-23 in a movie…despite acknowledging that it was probably less than a pipe-dream given that she was entirely too old for the character at this point (which she acknowledges above).

    After seeing Thor and hearing that story I’ve become a huge fan of hers…get her a franchise STAT! It’s such a huge waste of not only talent but genuine enthusiasm for not only the genre but the medium of comics. How many actors being cast in superhero roles are actually fans of the comics? I’m not saying it’s a prerequisite, but I do think it brings something to the role to have that kind of enthusiasm and insight into the character. I’d cast Jaime Alexander in any superheroine role she wanted, and she’d be pretty great in all of them!

  • odango atama

    I instantly thought of a male superhero in a Daisy Dukes onesie with a V-neck to his navel. ROFL And hairy legs!

  • Anonymous

    That movie was really exceptionally good. I never understood why it got so little press. It would be an excellent template to do a live action Wonder Woman movie off of.

  • Becky Garbrick

    I know this is three months late, but I wanted to say that I never actually considered how odd the whole adding a shirt before the action started was. Gave me some real food for thought.

    (also I feel the scene would have been much better if he had remained topless. And if somehow RA’s top vanished as well. For artistic purposes.)

  • Anonymous

    lol, that’s ok; did you see how many months “late” I was to the discussion? ;)

    well, while I’ll begrudge no one their desire to see Richard Armitage topless, I’m not sure how it would fit organically into the narrative ;) Cap on the other hand was already topless and could have easily remained so for the entire action scene that followed.

    [I suppose you could have Cap somehow de-clothe him during the action, but that sounds just a little odd to me ;)]

    Also as we get into racier territory on this topic: the original poster talked about MoS look as “form-fitting” in a false equivalence to say it’s the same way that a female outfit as Jaimie described involving a “skin tight outfit and their boobs are pushed up to their

    -MAYBE, maybe! if we started seeing Supes back in the Red-Underpants/speedo-over-pants-look and it included a cod-piece one COULD at least suggest a similarity without sounding utterly ridiculous in their argument!

  • Anonymous

    Thank You, and lol, that’s ok; did you see how many months “late” I was to the discussion? ;)

    well, while I’ll begrudge no one their desire to see Richard Armitage topless, I’m not sure how it would fit organically into the narrative ;) Cap on the other hand was already topless and could have easily remained so for the entire action scene that followed.

    [I suppose you could have Cap somehow de-clothe him during the action, but that sounds just a little odd to me ;)]

    Also as we get into racier territory on this topic: the original poster talked about MoS look as “form-fitting” in a false equivalence to say it’s the same way that a female outfit as Jaimie described involving a “skin tight outfit and their boobs are pushed up to their
    -MAYBE, maybe! if we started seeing Supes back in the
    Red-Underpants/speedo-over-pants-look and it included a cod-piece one COULD at least suggest a similarity without sounding utterly ridiculous in their argument! (although it still wouldn’t be “form-fitting” until they lose all pretense of it being armor and go back to the original film’s style where it was clearly made of a rather thin material and go further to the point where it hugs the actor’s body like underarmor brand clothes)

  • Tyrone Biggums

    Superman is Kryptonian but you don’t see people asking for a Kryptonian actor. The actors/actresses ethnic background should not be a factor unless it’s a totally obvious difference. Like getting a Russian actress with an uber-heavy accent to play an English lady. White washing is for more ethnic-specific roles. Nobody said that about Henry Cavill as Supes or Andrew Garfield as Spidey. It’s not really serious unless you get a white person to play a character who has been explained (in canon) to be Asian. In terms of more closely related ethnicities, an American Caucasian playing Wonder Woman would not be outlandish. Neither would an actress with more exotic features. I don’t think the whole concept of the Amazons should be a specific race. It could be a multi-ethnic tribe or world of strong, beautiful female warriors. Women who flee and find solace and protection from the barbarian, misogynistic world of man. Maybe at least 1/3 of them could be lesbians? Just trying to keep it real. I’m not trying to generalize the Amazon mythos, but there has to be homosexual Amazons on Themyscira. It’s just not believable that all of them are straight considering the fact that they isolated themselves from men…..

  • Anonymous

    I really don’t get why Wonder Woman is such a difficult character.

    First, the outfit. Classic Grecian armor ala the great cosplay by Meagan Marie, or Rileah Vanderbilt’s outfit in the fan trailer by Rainfall Films.

    Second, the story. Something along the lines of the Wonder Woman animated movie they did a few years back. The Greek goddesses, concerned over Ares’ growing power in an increasingly violent and hostile world, grant the wish of their devoted servant Hippolyta and give her a daughter, each blessing her with a different trait. Flash forward, and Steve Trevor lands on the island, being chased by [insert relevant evil-doers here]. The Amazons kill the evil-doers, but Trevor warns that others will come. Cue the contest for the next Wonder Woman. Diana sneaks into the contest and wins, goes with Steve. She’s met by one of the goddesses who explain they need her to stop Ares, and set her up as an intelligence officer. She eventually discovers a pattern leading to a corrupt businessman. With enough evidence, she goes to arrest him, but discovers that he’s more than he seems. He’s Maxwell Lord, and he’s brought Superman as backup. They fight, she stops Superman and kills Lord. The world ostracizes her, but we see Batman isn’t quite ready to cross her off the list. We switch back to Lord who gets up, revealing he was Ares all along. Possibly introduce Nubia (Ares’ “adopted” protege and Diana’s sister) as a character for the next movie, to introduce some diversity.

    Third, the actress. There are plenty of great choices. Jaimie Alexander would be great. I also think Cote de Pablo would be a natural, like Lucy Lawless would have been 10 years ago. Zeva is as close as you can get to Wonder Woman. She has the fierce determination of a warrior (the episode last season where she is training after being in a car accident captured that perfectly); she can fight; they’re both Mediterranean (the characters, not the actress); they’re both fish out of water. Add to that that NCIS is the #1 rated show on TV, and she is quite popular, which could give the movie a boost to the box office.

  • Anonymous

    We’ve never had a sane world. There are too many imbeciles and aholes in the world for that to happen. Like neanderthals who think they have the right to decide who someone else should be.

  • ToTripoli

    So… original Aquaman.

  • ToTripoli

    I could see her as The Question, or the Huntress (with some hair dye), or – best yet – Spider-Woman.

  • odango atama

    LOL Ever laugh so hard you cry?

  • Laralock

    “I always wanted to play Jubilee but missed that one too, I’m not a teenager anymore.” Ok. I love this woman forever more and a half. She just keeps adding the awesomeness!

  • ToTripoli

    Glad I could entertain. :)

  • Tim Keating

    Alias is a terrible example to cite. Jennifer Garner was in her underwear in every freaking episode of that show.