‘I would’ve turned right around and left’: New York woman meets up for first date. Then he makes a major mistake before it even begins
Everybody has their non-negotiables when it comes to dating. Since every person is unique, it’s tricky to know what dating protocols each date expects—there truly is no universal blueprint.
Enter Stacey Wilson (@staceandthecity), who’s sparked a major discussion on dating norms thanks to her viral TikTok. Since being posted on Jan. 16, it’s gotten over 1.2 million views.
What happened on this date?
For Wilson’s entire video, her camera is pointed at the ground, showing only the hands and the bottom half of her and her male date.
The video shows her date, a man in jeans and a green jacket, entering a restaurant in front of Wilson. He half-props the door open so Wilson can fully open it herself and walk through after him. He walks through a second doorway first as well, leaving Wilson trailing behind him.
“First date,” Wilson captions her video. “Please tell me what was wrong here!!!?”
In the caption of her video, Wilson writes, “I could’ve chopped my hand off.”
“He walked in first, held the door open for you,” one viewer commented. “But he should have opened the door to let you walk in & then walk in behind you.” Wilson liked the comment in agreement.
In an email to The Mary Sue, Wilson revealed this wasn’t the first red flag “in the beginning of the date that made [her] instantly know this was first and last.”
“We had already gone to a coffee shop and he didn’t open up the door for me,” Wilson wrote. “The reason why I started to record when we went to the brunch restaurant was because I knew for sure he wasn’t going to open the door for me again. He was really nice and respectful but just not a match. He wasn’t paying any attention to me throughout the date.”
A gender split: Commenters react
Notably, most women in Wilson’s comments section seemed to empathize with her, seeing this as a “red flag.” The fellas, however, were not on board.
“It’s insane how serious this is taken,” one male viewer commented. “Yet something so small and inconsequential.”
“Gentlemen enter an establishment first to protect the lady from any danger happening inside,” another man commented, taking a different approach. “Don’t forget taverns were hotspots for fights and gun shots.”
The ladies were overwhelmingly on Wilson’s side.
“Walked straight in that got damn door before you like you’re a stranger,” one female commenter reproached. “I would’ve turned right around and left.”
“Even the guy I’m not dating opens the door for me,” another commented, highlighting how inappropriate she thought Wilson’s date was acting. Other women agreed, with one saying, “My homeboys don’t even let me touch the door handle!”
“Train him!!!” urged another. “If every woman pitches in and make men correct their behavior eventually they will all be trained.”
First date etiquette for guys: Should men open doors for women?
The short answer: There is no widely-agreed-upon verdict.
While manosphere influencers continue foaming at the mouth to bring back widespread performances of traditional gender roles—door-holding included—the general populace has more mixed opinions. Protocol is so foggy now that online forums are chock-full of people asking this very question.
In one Reddit post, the OP said his female cousin “won’t get into a relationship with a man who doesn’t [open a car door] for her,” even as a female commenter remarked she “cannot fathom caring about this.” Clearly, it depends on the person, which is admittedly an imperfect and unsatisfying answer.
One man’s advice blog acknowledges “there are some women who are offended by it because they think it implies the inferior status of women–that women are too weak to open doors for themselves.” The same blog also points out “a woman can be smart and independent while still being playful about gender roles.” This gendered discourse is not new; because many so-called “chivalric” practices are rooted in old-fashioned gender norms, the notion that men should hold doors open for “the gentler sex” can sometimes be viewed as a form of “benevolent sexism.”
@staceandthecity I could’ve chopped my hand off?? #firstdate #datingstories ♬ son original – out of context hannah montana
What does feminism say?
Feminist writer Zawn Villines, however, argues that it’s not sexist to treat people differently. According to her, “fairness is not the same as equality.”
“Feminism does not demand that we treat everyone the same,” Villines writes. “A trivial example is that there’s nothing wrong with denying a childless man a private space during his workday, but there’s plenty wrong with denying the same space to a breastfeeding mother. Fairness demands that we give people what they need—and to the extent that we can, and that it doesn’t harm others, also that we give them what they want.”
Villines goes on to assert that “holding the door for people is an act of basic courtesy.” She says it should arguably be extended to everyone. Especially those, like wheelchair users, for whom a door is a different kind of barrier. Moreover, she says men holding doors for women specifically “does not in any way undermine feminism or the fight for equality.”
“Men in public aggressively take up space, and do not show consideration for others, especially for women,” Villines writes. “… Making it a badge of honor to open doors for women encourages men to become more mindful of women, and of how they take up space around them. Rather than an outdated act of chivalry, I see it as proactive way to counter the spatial selfishness into which men have been socialized.”
All in all, everyone clearly feels differently. It’s ultimately important to simply treat your date with the courtesy you believe you should uphold. Communication is key. And at the end of the day, if someone’s values don’t align with your own, trust that there are other fish in the sea.
For Wilson’s part, “as much as [she considers herself] an independent woman,” she’s a fan of her dates engaging in this type of chivalry. In her email to The Mary Sue, she said of course she “can open [her] own doors,” but that she understandably wants “to be with someone that makes [her] feel safe and protected.”
The Mary Sue has reached out to Villines via email.
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