The Downside of Internet Anonymity For Women

It is a nice idealistic way of approaching things, but the real backlash of the matter is that you still, especially as a woman or a queer person, run the risk of stalkers, harassment, creephats, slurs, and the like. I’ve done quite a lot of work to create safe spaces when I am not “anonymous” on the Internet, but it takes a lot of time and energy. While it is nice to feel like it is our job as the non-majority to pave the way for people noticing us, to shape anonymity, I don’t know if I feel entirely safe or comfortable being responsible for what the inevitable backlash is so early in the game. I think there’s better ways of creating friction without necessarily outing yourself everywhere.

I agree with this article. 100% When the internet started I’m sure no one thought it would be “male-dominate” but like so many other things, it turned out like that. There is nothing wrong with being on the internet, and are many girls on the internet for more than just make up tips and Google-ing cute guys.(Not that there is anything wrong with that.)

I have to agree with .mekoness. While I am not afraid to tell people I’m female in a situation I feel comfortable in, I am incredibly skeptical for a while before I do it. I’ve had way too many bad experiences, especially on X-Box Live for me to come clean even if asked. Most of the time they hear my voice and that’s enough. Usually I have to leave whatever I’m playing after that. *sigh*

But you have made me think about possibly not being as cautious to the point where I no longer play on Live. I’ve skipped it for years now due to this but I just might jump back in and hold my girl gamer head high, regardless of how I’m treated.

I agree with mekoness. I played a game a few years back. My avatar was a girl. All my friends’ avatars were girls (except for my guy friend). We teamed up with a random guy and played well with him for a couple months. My guy friend accidentally dropped my real name (which is quite girly). The random guy freaked. He started messaging my other friends. “She’s a girl, omg. Girls can’t play this game, we have to boot her.” Nevermind we’d been playing together well for months. Then my friends that he was messaging told him THEY were girls as well. He majorly freaked. But then a few days later he was back. Asking us all for pictures and telling us we should change our diets to look like the women he liked. It was annoying and gross and we had to break up a good working relationship.

This article unfortunately reads like a blame-the-victim piece. “Don’t get respect online? It’s your own fault!”

A tweaking of this article, with the headline, “stop assuming all anonymous are men” should go on Geekosystem main.

see it’s sad that you think that you might have to endure ridicule for a bit. This is not a female problem. We can hold our heads high and say, “we’re girls, we’re just as good as you are!” but chances are the men we would be saying that to don’t actually listen to women in the first place. This is really an issue that more men should be bringing up. If a man hears a comment he doesn’t like from another dude, he needs to say, “knock it off.”

Completely agree.

Yeah, while I like the article I do think you have a point.

And yes, I’m so sick and tired of when it’s found out that I’m female, immediately I must become a sex object and comply with requests for pics or questions of if I’m sexy. Seriously? I’m just trying to play fucking Halo.

Also how do you get your icon to show up? I’m signing in with Twitter but I’m getting the anon boy avatar.

lol at the male avatar thing XD

I’m signed in through Disqus.com, which a lot of blogs use for their comments sections. It allows people to use the same identity across various blogs and others can check out their comments from other blogs by clicking on their username

That was NOT a well crafted paragraph…

You might be able to use Gravatar as well, not sure if that’s still going.

by letting people know your gender and orientation you’re assuming anyone cares

While this is a little bit of “blame the victim,” I think the author has a point. If we don’t tell people we’re female, gay, whatever, they’ll never even KNOW that they’re being insensitive in the first place. Once they know, there is absolutely no excuse for their behavior. Their insensitivity is completely on them, and there’s no “blaming the victim” about it. They have a responsibility to behave like decent human being (which they should be doing anyway), and “outing” yourself removes all possible excuses for bad behavior.

I have NEVER had a negative experience either in forums or in MMOs when I’ve revealed my gender. No, tell a lie; I once found someone who got annoyed that I was using an icon with a guy on it (Hojo from FF7) when I was female… but that was just more weird than negative. The freak didn’t even know who Hojo was! >_>

Odd point of fact; when I go purely as Shard, people generally assume I’m female. When I use Aerliss they assume I’m male. I, personally, would have thought that it would be the other way around.

I quite enjoy revealing certain aspects about myself and my personality once someone has cemented their assumptions (gender, race, age, religious persuasion, newspaper of choice…). I like the o.O reaction I get. However, I don’t do it as a way to end the assumptions (ironically applied or not) made in certain forums or gaming circles *cough*/b/*cough*. I do it because it’s funny… for the lulz, you might say.

It does have the same effect though; one more little itch in their brain saying “my assumptions might not be correct, I should try to stop letting them control my actions and the directions I go in in conversations.” Or something to that effect. But you’re not going to win this one completely, ever. I wouldn’t normally say “just suck it up” when it comes to actual, harmful bigotry (like K G’s team member’s actions), but for a small percentage of the time the best way to deal with the “TOGTFO” mentality is to simply ignore it. Just keep on trucking. Some people who act like hormone laden, sex mad morons unfortunately are exactly that, and THEIR anonymity allows them to keep being that way; it’ll only go away if we’re ALL forced to reveal who and what we really are.

By the way; “thanks, man” isn’t a gender assumption. It’s simply a verbal interjection. Scots say “thanks, pal” all the time, whether to a friend or a stranger, a man or a woman. Two of my best friends and I will use “man” and “dude” when talking to each other, whatever gender we are… we also use “dude” as an exclamation of amazement. But I know what you meant :P

This.

I’ve seen too many women get hit on when they introduce themselves to a message board or chat room for no other reason than they’ve identified themselves as female. But to throw another stereotype onto the fire, a lot of the men in the geekier communities really don’t have the social skills to connect with a woman in any meaningful way in the real world. They’re not all the Comic Book Guy (I, for example, do not have a ponytail–anymore), but I think for a lot of men the Internet provides the only outlet to practice that kind of human contact.

True story: Back when I was in college and we used carrier pigeons to send messages, I was shockingly, horribly shy around women and anybody else I didn’t know. But through various BBSs and chat rooms I was able to practice what I wanted to say and create appropriate responses to other people by giving me more time to formulate what is and is not appropriate. It gave me the skills to begin interacting with other people on a human level, which in turn helped cure me of my shyness.

I’m rambling (so much for helping me craft my answers). I guess what I’m saying is that the anonymity issue is a double-edged sword: while it might create a hostile gaming environment, it can on occasion educate those who need the most help.

And BTW, this is a great website so far. A site like this on a professional level has been a long time in coming.

I too rolled my eyes a bit at the awkward “default” male avatar in the comments. I realize it’s probably the default setting for whatever blogware The Mary Sue is using – but still, isn’t that kind of what we’re talking about here?

My theory which is kind of unrelated yet related, is how women seem to be slower adopters of technology. Simply put, you all ALLOWED men to ‘get there first’. Had girls in the 80s enjoyed video games more, let’s say equal to the amount of boys… there would be have been that many more joining xbox live and thus represent a majority on xbox live.

but that’s not how it happened. You take Pac-Man… a brand new technology in the 80s that literally had NO gender preconception… and what happened? More boy than girls. Why? Why did that happen? What was it that girls saw in Pac-Man that made them wrinkle their noses and say, “that’s a boys-thing”.

Did the inventors and distributors put Pac-Man machines directly into the hands of only boys, or places where only boys go? I don’t think so. Were there signs that said, “No girls allowed!”. I doubt it.

I understand your article… its now coming to a point where females DO want to be on Xbox live or PSN, but the children who reside there now utilize anonymity to be complete and utter assholes. That is a problem, no argument at all about that… but in considering the lack of female numbers in such techie-areas, one has got to realize that women didn’t warm up to these as fast and I never understood why.

not all women of course, I don’t mean to blanket that… but majority.

Here’s another unrelated but related story: My best friend liked games. But all she’d play were games like Super Puzzle Fighter, or Fable or such. Fun little cutesy things. “Try Halo!” I would say. “I don’t get the controls!” she’d reply. I explained, just PLAY it. It becomes intuitive over time. You just don’t jump on a bicycle and know how to ride. No, after 3 minutes, she gives up and says she doesn’t like the game. Then… fast forward several year to the release of Left 4 Dead. My best friend is in complete awe of this game. her bloolust begins to take over… she wants to kill dead things. As many as she can. Well… imagine this: In one session she mastered the controls of a First Person Shooter. She got SO good, that she eventually moved onto… Halo Reach.
Does she get harassed a lot on xbox? yeah… but she just tells them to go f*** themselves and keeps playing. Is she deterred by the a-hole? Not a bit. Again… this story doesn’t offer any solutions to the problem of too many a-holes hiding behind anonymity on the inter-webs, but its another story of how a female shied away from something technological, deeming it too difficult or too complicated or not interesting enough, until she found something that truly engaged her. This I think is a major factor of the lack of females on the inter-web.

Apparently they do considering the number of people who go from nice to asshats the minute they know the gamer they are playing with/against is female.

LOL yeah.

And woot, I’m no longer anon boy!

It is possible to change the default nony avatars on Disqus to whatever you want to be shown. It’s as simple as changing your own avatar on any other forum; just upload a new image and save. Perhaps the admin will look into it now.

Well, you’re lucky then. Because it’s been pretty much the opposite for me. Only place that wasn’t incredibly bad has been EQ.

I can see what you’re saying.

It just sucks that it has to come at the expense of my enjoyable gaming experience.

To be honest, I usually use an androgynous name, because I prefer them to feminine names, and because I find that, when gender has nothing to do with the subject, I don’t want to talk about it. If it does have something to do with it, then I will bring it up. I remember once, on a image collection site devoted mostly to anime-style images, but with some photos, someone commented on a photo with a girl with large labia minora. He said something about her clit being huge, so I retorted that he was being ignorant, and told him what he was seeing. He assumed I was male, and of course, told me I didn’t know what I was talking about, because of course, I’m also an assumed virgin. He was very taken aback when I revealed I was, in fact, female… then started asking for photographic proof. At that point, I just ignored him.

If playing a game, I tend to choose female characters, so that sometimes tips them off, but I also still use a gender-neutral name. I guess I don’t mind being anonymous. If they think I’m male, I don’t care. I understand the cause, but I don’t think that correcting people all the time is going to change much of anything.

I get what you are saying but I think you are missing the big point. The reason more women weren’t into that stuff then is because it was looked down upon. It’s like when my dad complained that when he was growing up women didn’t know about cars. So I asked why didn’t they take a class and his answer was “a woman? take a class about cars?” and then laughed. So, ok, you complain that more women don’t know about cars but you also won’t treat a woman who wants to know about cars as an equal?

I think that’s what the overall issue is which is why this site is such a breath of fresh air. While it isn’t really like that anymore, not to that extent, there is still a stigma with being a geek girl. I definitely remember being teased for it and I grew up in the 80s and loved all the stuff you mentioned. But I was told repeatedly “it’s not for girls.”

And BTW, I LOVE L4D2! Zombie killing at it’s best!

I think the reason many girls didn’t play games was socialization. Girls, from a young age, are socialized to play certain games, and to play with other girls during these games. For boys, they can play on their own all they want, unless they wanted to compete in something, like a sport, and a lot of the early video games encouraged that. Also: after video games started becoming more of a ‘thing’, it did start to be gendered, and that just deterred more girls. I’m not saying it’s men’s fault, I’m just saying, you can’t very well blame women for how they were brought up.

To answer your first question; because society deemed technology a boy’s thing and dolls a girl’s thing. Children are literally told what they should and should not be enjoying by their parents.

Example one; (FTR; I work in a small cafe attached to a large community centre with various halls and rooms that can be used by hobby groups etc) a little boy who comes in with his mom regularly loves watching the girls practice their ballet in the big hall. He’s four. I was talking to his mother and she explained that he really wanted to do ballet but his father would not let him. Poor kid.

Example two; I was talking to another customer about how the ballet classes drive mega amounts of customers through our doors. She didn’t realises why we were so busy because, and I quote “oh, well, I wouldn’t have known about the ballet because I have two little boys.”

Arg!

Parenting and equality fails all round… but this attitude is not uncommon, even now. Parents simply hand down their own ideas of gender (and everything else) onto their children.

Actually, I think that answers question two as well. Not only do parents tell their children what to enjoy based on gender, but they tell their children how hard they should push themselves based on gender. A recent experiment that Lise Eliot talks about in “Pink Brain, Blue Brain” involved asking mothers to say whether they thought their crawling baby could make it up various inclines on a ramp. The majority of the time mothers of girls picked maximum inclines that were shallower than those picked by mothers of boys, even though there’s no real difference to what a baby at that age can manage based on gender. The Xs and Ys haven’t really started to affect their physical strengths and weaknesses yet.

Parents have been shown to push boys, and tell boys they are capable of doing great things more than girls. Girls are virtually brain washed from birth, by those around them, to believe they shouldn’t try too hard; just find a nice man, have his babies and keep his house tidy (again, I see this attitude all the time at work, amongst the old ladies and the young mothers).

Of course, some people manage to say a big FU to what other people tell them (some manage it as kids, some take a little longer to realise they can do that)… and society moves on, grows up.

I’m posting a lot of essays in the comments here, which is nice… not wanted to interact with a site in this way for a long time. I might not agree with what’s said, but at least it’s said in a calm and intelligent way which is PERFECT for starting good discussions. *thumbs up*

And apologies for the comment spam XD

Damn good reply. =)

Luck definitely. I know those idiots are out there, I’ve just not encountered them on the internet (in the real world I have though >_> ). Yes, luck and the fact that I’ll rile up those kinds of idiots in other ways long before they realise I’m not what they think I am XD

Thanks XD That’s my one great post for the month quota fulfilled and it’s only day one of March!

At the store where I work, I once overheard a grandmother tell her granddaughter, “No, you can’t have that, that’s a boy’s toy!”

It was a stuffed dog.

(Also, for anyone who’s interested in how toys & toy advertisements are gendered, I recommend the blog Sociological Images – http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/)

Completely with you on that.

I say essay your heart out!

I think the other commenters have covered the problem with your generalizations. I’d like to address the problems with your anecdote.

One problem is that video games are often intuitive only to those who have been playing other games in that genre. The fact that your friend wasn’t able to understand Halo’s controls until after she’d learned the controls of a FPS with a better tutorial does not point to a deficiency in your friend. She’s obviously capable of learning if taught well.

The fact that your friend is thick-skinned enough to say “f*** off” and keep playing is wonderful for her. Some women, though, just want to relax when they play games. They’re stressed out all day, from the normal stresses all people share plus all those unique to women like being paid 75 cents on the dollar and putting up with sexual harassment on the subway. The fact that these women would rather relax in a method that does not required tolerating a-holes is not a flaw of theirs. They shouldn’t have to put up with it any time, much less in their free time.

I’m also bothered by your dismissal of Fable and other games as “cutesy” and “little”. There’s nothing wrong about liking story-oriented games more than combat-oriented games.

The author of this article isn’t saying that at all. She’s saying that women shouldn’t have to be anonymous online, that the men who responded that way to you and your friends are the problem. Because those men assumed you were also men, because men are the default. I think the author IS saying that if more people are willing to “out” themselves online, maybe it will help to normalize the existence of women in online communities.

This is true, but I tend to think the “socially awkward” guy and the “tits or GTFO” guy are not really overlapping. And “tits or GTFO” guy is the real problem because he’s the one who really alienates women.

Are you kidding? Girls don’t like Pac-Man? More like they wanted to play Pac-Man, but the boys hogged the machine and made fun of them for wanting to play and told them they couldn’t because they were a girl. The way you assumed that women just aren’t interested in technology is just evidence of the problem. Similarly, it’s not that girls don’t like math or aren’t good at math, it’s that they’re constantly told that they can’t do math or shouldn’t do math or pursue a career in math.

Hm. I must say I love occasionally putting my clan tag as LADY and running up a pretty score. It’s very satisfying having it sit above “JAKE”, “PWNR” and “69″.

I’d want to snap at her: “No, it’s a toy AIMED at boys, but it’s NOT a ‘Boy’s Toy’ until a boy OWNS it. If a girl owns it, no matter what it is, then it’s a ‘Girl’s Toy’.”

I understand what the author is trying to say, but I think she is saying it the wrong way, and to the wrong audience. It is like when all the colleges/workplaces I’ve attended put up flyers saying, “Stop sexual assault; take self-defense classes at the gym on Tuesdays!” The writers of the flyer aren’t TRYING to say, “if you don’t take self-defense then it’s your own damn fault” but that’s the message that they ARE saying. I don’t think the author is TRYING to say, “women, if you don’t out yourselves online you deserve verbal abuse and images that make you feel uncomfortable!” but that’s the message she IS conveying.

I visited the UoT a few years ago and they had a flyer that said, “Stop sexual assault; don’t touch anyone sexually against their will.” THAT was a damn good flyer, and THAT’s the kind of message that needs to go out. Guys – stop being shitty to girls online.

I don’t think allowing women to prepare to defend themselves is blaming them if they can’t. That’s a huge stretch of the imagination. It’s just tools in a toolbox, there’s more than one way to accomplish similar goals. Defending yourself is one way (and a good way, until there’s a way to avoid all deviants in society – which will probably be awhile). But I don’t think everyone has learned how to behave themselves, and until they do, I will have pepper spray and kubaton.

Perhaps we shouldn’t have to announce our gender and call dudes out on being obnoxious. It’s just one way of dealing with a very prevalent – it’s not the only way, and it certainly is assigning blame just by offering one type of solution.

I agree 100% with this article. Whenever I comment or post something online I always prepare my self for the sexism, or some kind of battle that is always likely to follow such a move on a woman’s part. My user name is famine, but I don’t post pics of myself for fear of the harassment that is sure to follow, or the racism depending on the site. I mean I get sexually harassed online all the time, and I usually use a robot meme as my icon. That’s why I love this blog, you guys have made the geek-o-sphere online a safe and friendly place. A least for this geek girl. And for that Joasalisa salutes you again, and again.

Just had to mention…saying a game called “Pac-MAN” is gender-neutral? I mean it has MAN right in the title. And then there was “Mrs. Pac-MAN” I mean if that’s not typical gendering, I don’t know what is.

I’m a little like your friend. I didn’t play VS type games until just recently. Why? Because I was new to them. So I got slaughtered. Over, and over and over again. It was impossible to learn because I was getting killed all the time, AND being insulted for it. And since I game for FUN, THAT, is not fun. At all. Like your friend, L4D was my first shooter, why? I could play as a female. Game developers reinforce this by primarily making the main characters male.

I agree that it is useful to learn how to defend yourself on many levels, however blaming the victim is not much of a jump when the *only* message out there to stop sexual assault is to take self-defense.

The “problem” with women in any area is generally accepted that its women’s fault. That THEY need to take strides to correct the problem (i.e. standing up and waving their gender flags proudly). The fact that many (not all) men make it an incredibly hostile place is often overlooked. After all, boys will be boys.

Yeah I’m pretty sure there isn’t anything in school or elsewhere that explains exactly why rape is bad and that you shouldn’t do it. People just assume it’s being taught or that they just know. Well, as statistics show, that isn’t the case.

I don’t mind knowing how to possibly defend myself (even though a woman isn’t going to overpower a man on 99% of cases) but teaching that sexual assault is wrong should be the first step.

Seriously I have played WoW as a female character and other players still assumed I was a guy. I do not hesitate to politely correct when I get tossed a “thanks, man”. What gets me is that there are still some ignorant BOYS out there who are surprised to see women on the internet or gaming. This doesn’t upset me so much as it causes me to have complete contempt for those little boys who really need to get a clue. That is such a 20th-century attitude.

Gravatar works.

While I think the tone of this article is not very victim-blamey, I totally agree with calling people on their shit.

Pac-man was notable for being completely appealing to both genders, the 50/50 gendersplit for that game was repeatedly commented on in mags and news of the day. The gender divide was nowhere near as pronounced.

There was an uproar – not dissimilar to the uproar about pinball before that – about how these newfangled video games were making the children into twitchy dissolute quarter-sucking thrillfiends. Then all of a sudden 2 things entered the public narrative. Really expensive games funded by the military that concentrated on warfare – and doctors appearing to say “It improves hand-eye coordination” like a mantra to reassure worried mothers.

I prefer my games not to give me PTSD so no – 1st person shooters don’t float my boat. But I played every single game that came out between space invaders and mortal kombat. I loved video games and I still do – but I feel like its a wasteland of military training engines and FPS and games I almost like that are too easy or dumb because they’re aimed for little kids. I don’t *blame* game companies for this. They need money just like anyone. The real money is in either designing military simulators or in using engines made for military simulators.

A game like psychonauts just wont get the same benefit of funding, of distribution, etc. And, yeah, I know lotsa girls like games where they go after military abjectives and rip out peoples spines and all that. I’m not saying women dont like violent games. But when I was a wee lass, I didnt think “One day I’ll be a soldier and kill lotsa people.” And I think thats pretty common. Nobody says “Look at Susie – she sure is active. Maybe she’ll be a cop when she grows up.” And this does affect her choices. So games may present a neutral character, but most often its males. And that’s a subtle but definite signal that Vulvas Need Not Apply. Not that I’m complaining. I look good in pants.

I’m fully open about being a girl on WoW and any form of online society that I’m in. However I find it vexing that the moment you are opened about it the men in the room think, “HEY GUYS I HAVE A CAVE! PLEASE TRY TO GET WITH ME” *Girlish giggle* When in reality I just want equal treatment. I go on the internet for myself, not for men, not to amuse them, and especially not to get with them. I find it alarming how guys do automaticlly think your a guy when you and play and then when they do understand they have to change the relationship make up. For instance, I’ve been friends with this guy on WoW for four years. The moment he figures out, which by the way I thought he knew I was a girl, he feels the need that we have to date. It’s silly and just shows how the internet is making people ignorant of their opposites.

I’m fully open about being a girl on WoW and any form of online society that I’m in. However I find it vexing that the moment you are opened about it the men in the room think, “HEY GUYS I HAVE A CAVE! PLEASE TRY TO GET WITH ME” *Girlish giggle* When in reality I just want equal treatment. I go on the internet for myself, not for men, not to amuse them, and especially not to get with them. I find it alarming how guys do automaticlly think your a guy when you and play and then when they do understand they have to change the relationship make up. For instance, I’ve been friends with this guy on WoW for four years. The moment he figures out, which by the way I thought he knew I was a girl, he feels the need that we have to date. It’s silly and just shows how the internet is making people ignorant of their opposites.

I think my brain completely skipped the Fable comment as being too absurd.

Fable’s a ‘fun little cutesy’ game? Well, maybe Fable is, never played it, but if Fable II, III, Black & White and Dungeon Keeper are anything to go by it is far from being just a cutesy game “for girls”. I mean, seriously, Fable II won various editor, critic and player chosen game of the year awards. Fable III has been hotly anticipate by gamers pretty much since the arrival of Fable II. The sound track was composed by Danny Elfman for crying out loud.

Gah. You can’t just dismiss a Peter Molyneux game (that isn’t a business sim, ’cause let’s face it; played Theme Park, played ‘em all) as something not worth playing simply because it’s not an FPS… although a Molyneux FPS would be a work of true beauty.

There is more to life than Halo!

Ooookay, I feel better now…

I don’t think the dating thing is found only online. A lot of people seem to think you can’t be good friends with someone of the opposite sex without wanting to date them. And by god, if you’re gay and friends with someone of the same gender then you’re OBVIOUSLY lovers, even if the other person is completely straight.

Still, better than a few of generations ago, when two single people just talking to each other more than once a month was assumed to be leading up to marriage >_>

You.So.Rock.

Anyone who mentions Dungeon Keeper is made of awesomesauce in my book. LOVE.THAT.GAME.

And yeah, it kinda makes me think you don’t know much about gaming or game mechanics if you are writing off a game as “cutesy” just because it looks nice. I love playing Gears of War as much as the next person, but it is in no way the best game I’ve ever played.

That would be the Bioshock series in my case. =)

I was too busy attempting (and still failing as I no longer have a 360 in the house :( ) to complete FF13 and Fallout III when we got Bioshock so I contented myself in watching my housemate play (it’s her 360, she took it with her when she moved out, hence the failing to complete).

It IS pretty awesome. I love games/books/films that have you believing one thing right up until the middle of the final act and then slap you in the face with a complete reversal.

Sweet, sweet betrayal!

And of course the entire look and feel of Bioshock is perfect. The claustrophobia, the crazies (they’re terrifying even when you don’t have the pad in your hand), the way the story is told mostly through random bits of audio as opposed to cut scenes (though I love cut scenes), the alt-Cold-War-history designs…

But yeah, I didn’t actually PLAY it XD

As we’re on the subject of the best games we’ve played; Metal Gear Solid. Omnomnomnom.

Recently played it most of the way through again on a 42″ screen. I was *this* close to licking the TV. I will never, ever get tired of playing it. You could lock me in a room with no other source of entertainment than MGS on a big screen and it’d take me at least two years to completely lose my marbles. I’ve played it at least once every year since its release and I STILL haven’t beaten it on extreme (because I keep trying to beat my time and score on medium), so at least I’d have a goal to aim for.

I completely understand and that really is annoying it happens all the time. It always ends up a sex, I think it has to do with trying to seem ultra male. I see it all the time, men and women expect males to act a certain way (always thinking about sex) so they go out of their way to do just that because it is expected of them. It happens to my boyfriend he never brings up anything sexual about females to his friends or pictures of scantily clad women but they do and wont stop until they get him participating and make fun of him if he doesnt. I tell him not to worry what they think doesnt matter and they are the weird ones.

My husband recently picked up Bioshock to play since I loved it so much and dood, I couldn’t do anything but watch him play. So.frakin.good. And I love that they based it on objectivism. I’d read Ayn Rand stuff before and when I heard that’s what they were using, I wasn’t sure how well it would go over since that’s some deep content. But holy crap does it have a great story. Andrew Ryan and the destruction of Rapture played perfectly with that movement.

I hear Bioshock: Infinite is based on western imperialism so *squee* I can’t wait, lol.

There’s no reply button on your latest comment so I’m having to reply here.

Interesting. I know the very basics of objectivism (Atlas Shrugged being one of those books that will likely eternally be on my I-Should-Read-This list) so… education time!

SPOILERS for Bioshock! Ye be warned, fair reader.

Objectivism, as far as I understand it, states that reality in not subjective, as some of the big name philosophers would argue, but objective. What is out there, is out there no matter how we perceive it and it is up to us to perceive and interpret it correctly through logical deduction.

We may be fooled into believing reality is set up one way, even when it is not, but if we follow the logic, connect the dots in numerical order, we will eventually discover the the true reality.

In Bioshock the player is given one version of events, one version of reality and it is up to them to seek out, through deductive reasoning, the true reality and history of Rapture and Andrew Ryan. When they have, they must stop doing tasks to bring about the happiness of someone else and follow the road to their own rational (or enlightened, as I’ve heard it in other circles) self-interest.

Am I even close?

As for “Infinite”; I think I’m looking forward now more to the reaction of certain media groups and individuals who, let’s say are fangirls of America and all it stands for (and, depending on exactly where they go with the idea, the haters) than I am to the game itself.

It wasn’t even aimed at boys, though. Like, there was NOTHING about it that was at all gendered, this lady had just arbitrarily decided that it was inappropriate. I had to bite my tongue to keep from yelling at her, honestly.

In my experience (which, compared to many who have already posted, is the exception rather than the rule) I have never had a problem with being openly female. I have been in z number of guilds in WoW and personally have been well received. There seems to be a faintly large percentage of the guild identifiably female too. My only bad experience was a very strange one. My guild leader called themselves Solmina, played a female and acted very female. There was even a picture of a girl on the forum avatar. However, after playing with ‘her’ for about 3 years I found out it was not a girl at all. He had used a photo of his sister and had been whispering girly things to me all that time. I felt betrayed! It shouldn’t have mattered – we got on well and played well together, but if that is how guys feel when we reveal we are female I think I can understand. It really hurt!!!
One reason I may not have had bad reactions I think is because I am open about it, and also my husband plays, so I mention him every now and again just so they realise there’s no point trying anything!

It’s true, it should be more of a two-pronged approach. And defense isn’t the only way to go. But I don’t see it as the only message that’s getting across, and that could just be a matter of perspective (or even the context in which is was presented to me at the time).

And I didn’t see this article as saying gendering up was the only solution, just an option. Clearly, some of these guys need to learn how to behave. But again, it’s something that I took as a given and wasn’t necessarily spelled out in the article, I guess. But the tone of the piece wasn’t one that smacked of blame – merely suggestion.

Exactly. Back in the 80s, I wanted Transformers toys and video games, but my parents always got them only for my brother, no matter how much I asked for them. And then he never let me play with them. And my parents were not even that bad, as far as sexism goes! But even I got socialized.
And the math thing: there’s a documented phenomenon called Stereotype Threat, Chang. Look it up sometime.

Agreed.

Men have just as much pressure to “act normal” as women do and it’s sad. Why can’t people just let us be people?

Yes your knowledge of objectivism is pretty much right on.

Where they went with the Ryan stuff was more from Rand herself on “looking out for the self” above all else. She was very into saying screw everyone else as long as it works for me. That’s Ryan all over and it ended up tearing Rapture apart. Just all the parallelism and stuff, gah, I’m a dork. LOL

And I agree about Infinite possibly causing some shit storms. I’m American but that doesn’t mean everything my country does is good or that I agree with it. Sadly, that’s not the case for some and I can see them not wanting to see the ugly truth of bad decisions made from misplaced pride.

My husband is a HUGE Transformers fan. I liked them when I was little but I couldn’t see past Star Wars mostly, lol. But I had no issue with him decorating our kitchen in Transformers. Now all along the top of our cabinets are all the statues and busts he could get his hands on.

They are just damn cool.

I see what you mean, but that’s completely different. He was intentionally leading people on. We are just playing. Why does picking a male avatar mean I’m a guy behind it? How could someone possibly feel upset when they were the ones who assumed I was male? I talk the same, I act the same. I just don’t like female avatars. I don’t freak out when the female avatar I’ve been socializing with turns out to be a guy. If I’m having a good time, I’m having a good time. I don’t care what gender you are. So why is it not the same in the opposite situation?

This guy sounds like he may have had some kind of issue. He was hiding he was a guy. What we are talking about is when we are just going about our business and we get flamed for having breasts and wanting to pwn some n00bs in Halo.

Sweet! My husband still has his Transformers that he played with as a kid. We’re giving them to our son, and if he were a girl we’d still do it. So far, though, the Boy hasn’t shown much interest. He has played with his kitchen set and legos far more. Goes to show how much “loving Transformers” and “playing kitchen” are NOT hardwired male and female gender traits, respectively. :P
We have all kinds of toys and Star Trek ship models and figurines and comic books. Geek marriage FTW!

The social conditioning is all very subtle and like you said, sometimes it’s what girls DON’T hear that is important too.
Like upthread when I mentioned my clueless parents never buying ME Transformers and video games, only my brother, even though I loved them just as much as my brother (who do you think played Transformers WITH him every day? He never let me play with them by myself, though. It always had to be with him, and he always got to be Optimus. >_<). When I told my dad recently about it, and how it was an example of subtle, unconscious sexism, he was shocked. It just NEVER OCCURED to him that that could have been damaging or unfair to a girl. He felt kind of bad about it, but I assured him my goal wasn't guilt, it was just to illustrate how well-meaning people can still enact sexist social conditioning without even being aware of WHY they are doing it.

Awesome!!!

We just had our first and she’s going to inherit the Transformers collection as well. So far we can’t get the 360 controller away from her, lol.

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I have actually resorted to using only certain races in WOW to avoid harassment. Undead or tauren: no problem. Blood elf *anything*: endless psts. It is very frustrating! I feel limited in my choices because I want to focus on the game and not the perceptions of the other players and how they react to my toon.

I consider the fact we were quite poor and all my toys were hand-me-downs from my male cousins. I don’t know if this affected me in some subconscious way because I have only very recently thought about it. However, from as early as I can remember I liked toy cars and blue and hated dolls and pink.

The weird thing is, I would never wear trousers as a little one. I hated trousers. Then one winter my mother forced me to wear trousers to school. I was probably eight. I can remember literally thinking “these are AMAZING. I can climb trees and throw myself over fences without getting the hem of my skirt stuck!”

From that very day onwards I’ve only worn dresses on special occasions, when it’s been my own choice.

I play WOW and am pretty addicted. I rarely have problems in groups (guild, raid, dungeons), but I stay the hell away from the trade channel – it’s brutal because it’s a bunch of troll monkeys performing for an audience and they egg each other on.

The other day on WOW a female player mentioned in passing that she was a girl in the trade chat. Two lines later she’s being called a whore, bitch, dyke, by several other players.

I’m not excusing the trolls, but I think it may be the way boys/girls interact with each other. Girls are conditioned to “play nice” with each other. Be polite, be friends. When boys play, they insult each other mercilessly and they don’t worry about hurting feelings. My bf is on HALO or COD and he’s called terrible names all the time and he doesn’t care. He doesn’t ever register them. If someone called me a whore online, even once, there would be a showdown of epic proportions.

When male players ask me “hey, r u a girl/r u hot?”, I reply “yes, but I’m old enough to be your mother”. I get some MILF comments but generally they start calling me ma’am and treat me like an old auntie or teacher. This is fine, I suppose – I can play the game in peace – but it’s a few days later and I still feel guilty and angry about the girl in trade chat. I didn’t speak up and defend her. I stayed silent to prevent being dragged into the drama. The vicious man-trolls ARE the main problem IMO – but I enable that problem when I don’t vocally support women players who get trashed and retreat behind my anonymity so that I can preserve my playing experience.

Just slightly off topic… it’s probably a good job I don’t like using actual voice chat; I have a sailor’s vocabulary while gaming. Soulcalibur tournaments are monstrous in our household. It’s all completely friendly though, so I think you’re partially right about it being a difference in how boys and girls in general interact.

If memory serves me right, wasn’t Pac-Man explicitly created to APPEAL TO WOMEN!?!!? I recall a story where the creator overheard a group of women talking about stuff they liked, and it always led back to eating (LOL) so he made a game about a yellow dot thing that ate fruit. :S

(and of course, Ms. Pac-Man >>>>>>> Pac-Man)

I think my kid’s first word will be the F word.

Especially if she’s around when I’m playing L4D2.

Aww! That makes me sad for those boys. My son is totally allowed to take ballet if he wants. I forced my husband to give in on that one as long as he is allowed to play hockey or soccer (again, if that’s what he wants).

I didn’t get to play video games much as a child because my parents could not afford it. We had an Atari 2600 that broke and then a NES after the Super Nintendo came out. :( But I kicked ass at some SEGA games and never really gave up.

I’m sure I’ll get flack for this, but I know a lot of women who do give up at the first sign of resistance or because it’s not “normal”. When boys used to make fun of me for being a tomboy, I just kicked ‘em in the nuts and went on to being myself. But I also wanted to grow up to be Indiana Jones.

And I stand up for other girls and women when men are being douchebags. Some people just need a champion. And those of us who want to do something about it need to be that champion.

Kicked ‘em in the nuts! Classic!

“Some people just need a champion.”

True. Not all women, not all men, are physically or mentally able to fight back. The rest of us need to be there for them.

Even with a female character and Vent, guys still say you are a 12 year old boy

Not all boys do it, just the jerks.

Author’s admirable for encouraging her peers not to give a shit and stand up for themselves and get in people’s faces, that’s awesome.

But sexism isn’t on them, it’s on men. It’ll stop when we stop putting up with it from our peers. If you care about anyone who isn’t yourself, you need to get pissed whenever anyone pulls this shit and put them in their place. I don’t care if it was an “ironic” tits or gtfo, or even just “Nice data recovery article, also chick who wrote it was hot”. This garbage is unacceptable and we must show no mercy.

This has undoubtedly already been said, I’ve just been reading a lot of similar crap lately it makes my blood boil.