A Girl Walks Into A Comic Shop…

I liked it better on here. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaAZ0_bRc9U 

You should come to London, England. I can’t think of a single shop that doesn’t have women behind the counter. 

So this happens at the store that’s managed by a woman? I’ve yet to see anything remotely like this happen at any shop I’ve ever been at. It’s just as pathetic as when geeks or nerds are all assumed to be virgins living in their parent’s basement. 

This has happened to me. It was very very unpleasant. Especially when a 12 year old tried to hit on me. So yes, it does happen.

This is funny although I personally have never seen anything like that happening in any comic shop I’ve been to. :)

Sorry, but this reaction is now the exception rather than the rule. Two women work at my LCS and there are several regular female customers there too, representing a spectrum of geekiness and physical attractiveness. No one bats an eye at any of them. If you are a woman who has experienced the situation presented in this video, I’m sorry you have to deal with that sucky awkwardness. But this video presents a very outdated stereotype, one that’s no longer funny, common or relatable to most people.

I’d like to express my thanks to all the fellas who showed up here to tell us that this isn’t a frequent occurrence.  Now that I know how rarely this is happening to me, I can breath easier.

Don’t know how we’d get by without ya, guys!

the reaction was probably going into the shop after a weekend binge of comicbook reading without showering :b

I do remember it was rare going into a comic book store (when they still existed)for a girl to be over young teens to be into comic books.  The same thing with videogame stores too.  It was something they usually grew out of while boys continued.   

Obviously it was exaggerated, but yeah, I’ve had something like this happen several times. It more resembles how you feel when you walk into a room and everybody stops their conversations and you wonder if they were talking about you. But I think the size of the shop really matters, too. The larger 4 room shop I go to sometimes has tall shelves and you don’t see other people convening that much. The one room shop that I like a little better is much worse about the regulars chilling and chatting and shutting up like whoa as soon as you open the door. I realized recently that it’s just the dude version of the Yarn Store, where the lady regulars eyeball you. 

This happened to me the first and only time I went into a comic book store (four years ago, for everyone who’s claiming it’s “outdated”). Never again. I thought comic books might be a cool thing to get into, but not if those people were the ones I’d have to get past to buy them.

It doesn’t really matter if it “only” happens part of the time, or at some of the stores. When it happens, it turns women off comic books. It makes us feel unwelcome and it makes some of us feel like we should spend our entertainment dollars elsewhere.

My God, it’s ALMOST as if many nerds have difficulty in social situations and don’t know what to do when something out of the ordinary happens!

Yes, it’s stupid, it’s a real problem, it’s something that needs to be eliminated.  But this video is acting as if this is something male nerds are doing on purpose, as opposed to it being an endemic social problem that needs to be addressed.  Do you think nerds want to ostracise girls for the crime of being girls, that acting strange around girls is a conscious decision on their part?

Being belligerent (“Get over it guys!”) doesn’t address the root causes of the problem, and it belittles the nerds who have a hard enough time as it is.

how old were you when you went into the shop?  I cant believe guys would react any way at all to a 10 or 12 yearold girl walking into a comic book shop for the first time. 
With boys by the time your 16+ you have long since been a regular. The shop now has a list of stuff they automatically put aside for you each month for you to just pickup.  You typically were in and out of the shop right away.  You’ll give a quick glance of new stuff to see if anything perked ya interest .  Its rare to be wandering around the shop unless you got into a new comic or were hunting for back issues of one you were into.  If you were looking for back issues you wouldn’t even look up to even notice anyone entering or exiting the shop.  Digging in a box for back issues was always a  PIA.
Other then employees of the shop the only time i ever saw 17+ yearold girls walk into a comic book shop was with their boyfriends.   So i could understand the puzzled stares of boys of a girl wandering around alone but they wouldn’t go running away like that.  You might have some boys online staring at the girl as they are buying their comics ask the owner of the shop “whose that girl”?

Mate this was pretty much always the exception & not the rule… Its essentially an excuse that women who were not comic book fans used to get out of going to a comic book store with her significant other. An trust me it has never been funny & it never will be funny.

Oh come off it Zen. you aren’t such a pretty princess that any one cares that you walked into a comic book store while in possession of a vagina. Personally i doubt this has ever happened to you & chances are that you are utilising exactly the same sort of hyperbole as the maker of this unfunny little video.

Actually Taranaich its not a problem. This cliche about the male geek not being unable to adapt to social situations is just as inaccurate as this hyperbolic nonsense about women in comic shops. There are very few comic shops i’ve been into in the last 20 years that haven’t had female staff.

There’s only one group that needs to “get over it” & thats the women who mistake people who look up to see who entered the room, with ostracising stares of terror. Its hyperbole that wasn’t ever funny as a cliche & still isn’t funny now, nor i doubt will it become funny in the future.

At least it was funny there. Not accurate, but at least funny.

My hometown LCS, the only one, has been owned and operated by women for decades.  This is a sweeping generalization.

Clearly there isn’t any real women comic book characters that girls like or they would be in the shop buying it in great numbers.  Maybe a super hero princes in a pink outfit would be popular :b

somewhere other than the kitchen.

Looks like someone’s word of the day was “hyperbole.”

Also, good job disproving that male geeks aren’t socially inept with these charming posts of yours.

Honestly, I’m not sure which is the bigger problem: The fact that some women do feel ostracized in comic book stores, or the fact that men are telling us that we don’t know what we’re talking about. (Because a handful of men posting comments to one blog post about the handful of comic stores they’ve visited with women on staff is reperesentative of everyone’s experience.)

Yeah dude, I mean, if you think it’s not funny that’s one thing, but don’t you feel it’s a little condescending for you to be saying LADIES THIS DOESN’T HAPPEN when there are a few people attesting the contrary on this very page? Especially when you’re going to use pretty aggressive language to address people that (presumably) you don’t know, you’re not really making a winning point. 

Rebel Rikki do you happen to know what an Attribution Error is?

Well, I can and did Google it, thanks. You could also address the situation directly instead of being oh-so-clever. And that doesn’t change the fact that it is super condescending to tell someone “no, you’re feeling wrong” when it is literally impossible that you could ever have had their particular experience. 

nope the word of the day was ”Fetial.”

The fact is that it is Hyperbolic. But its not just hyperbolic, it also suffers from a form of cognitive bias: This bias is know as a “Fundamental Attribution Error”, combined with just a smidge of ”Expectation Bias.”

So the person in question hold the expectation that she will be oggled when entering a comic store, when she walks in the people inside the store look up to see who is entering the store… Said person then attributes this action not to curiosity of whose entering, but to some sort of ingrained social sexism: Fundamental Attribution Error meets Expectation Bias.

In fact i might even go so far as to be really harsh & say its an “Ultimate Attribution Error.”

For those of you not in the know heres a description of an Ultimate Attribution Error: refers to a bias people commonly have towards members of an outgroup. 

Specifically, they view negative acts committed by outgroup members as a stable trait of the outgroup, and view positive acts committed by outgroup members as exceptions to normal behavior. The term is a variation on another common cognitive error, the fundamental attribution error.

Ultimate Attribution Error is attributing behaviors of entire groups to their stereotypes. In psychology, the Ultimate Attribution Error is considered one of the roots of prejudice.

Angel, we would likely be more forgiving if this video didn’t utilise an ultimate attribution error… Or to put it in simple terms: This video is getting negative commentary based on its attempt to
A. paint the entire fanbase in a negative light
B. Then tries to use rudimentary shaming language to “scold” the entire fanbase for this action she has painted us all as participating in.

Any negativity directed to it is well deserved.

“And that doesn’t change the fact that it is super condescending to tell someone “no, you’re feeling wrong”"

I’m not stopping her from feeling anything she wants to… What i’m doing is saying her observation is flawed. Feeling something over a silly misobservation is just fine, sprouting nonsense based on a potentially flawed observation is not

“when it is literally impossible that you could ever have had their particular experience.”

/facepalm. Do you know what “special Pleading is Rebel?

Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional considerations without proper criticism of these considerations themselves. Essentially, this involves someone attempting to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exemption

So an assertion that the opponent lacks the qualifications necessary to comprehend a point of view, such as: You couldn’t possibly understand because you aren’t a woman, is special pleading.

When an inherent part of the discussion involves gendered attribution (GIRL in a comic shop), I really don’t think it’s fallacious to say that you’re not exactly the authority on it, friend. 

I’d also like to say that attribution error cuts both ways. You may be more likely to think that men don’t freak out when a girl enters a comic shop because you’re a man, and you keep your cool, and so obviously that’s what everyone else does etc. etc. Doesn’t mean it’s right. 

By the way… clearly you are a smart guy (and I mean that not snarkily). You know your shit. Some kind of psychologist or psychology student? Or just a good memory. Either way, I don’t want to start flaming here. I just think we have a fundamental disagreement here. Thanks for the food for thought though. 

Here’s a word for you to Google: mansplaining.

Theres no such thing as manspalining, there are just explanations that are right & explanations that are built on faulty premises.

The term Mansplaining is an reductio ad ridiculum, commonly known as an Appeal to Ridicule. Its an attempt to throw a red herring into a conversation when someone within an argument lacks the ability or acumen to refute the arguments on the arguments own merits/basis.

Do you have anything to say about the above hypothesised alternative of fundamental attribution error meets expectation bias, or where you happy to leave it at reductio ad ridiculum? Or would you like a second shot at it?

This is why the Internet rules :) This dumb video is 45 seconds long, was probably written and filmed on the same Saturday morning with a Sony Handicam, and people still think they need to dissect and critique it. Sweeping generalizations? Yes. Subjective bias? Yes. Is it funny?  …Depends on who you ask. But taking it to task for using hyperbole is like blasting “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” because stars don’t actually twinkle. This shit ain’t that deep. It’s a cheap LOL and I doubt it was meant to be anything more than that.

Wow.  I did not expect The Mary Sue to be host to quite so much defensiveness and mansplaining.   You do realize that being so incredibly dismissive and skeptical of people coming forward and saying they feel alienated by X behaviour only makes them feel more alienated…right? 

You’re a turd.

Those of us who have personally experienced it know it happens. Just ignore anyone trying to argue facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7O4izi1fQE&feature=related

Except that Twinkle twinkle little star is not trying to pass on some sort of message for social change.

Wow, way to jump straight to Ad Homenium Attacks. Would you like to take this chance to say anything about the actual statements made?

Personally, I have never had this happen at a comic book shop or video game store.  If anything, I notice the exact opposite.  I found that regardless of how pretty a girl is, she tends to get a lot more unwanted attention in places like that. 

See, that one is atleast funny.

Do you happen to know what satire is? (If not, RebelRikki might show you how to google it if you ask nicely.) Nobody has said, “This is the exact situation I face whenever I go to any comic book shop anywhere.” What we said – and have been saying for years now – is that we sometimes feel ostracized. In other words, if it’s not about you then don’t make it about you. If you don’t act like a sexist prick in the presence of female nerds (although from your comments, I highly doubt that highly), then fine. Whatever. But don’t belittle our experiences by telling us that we don’t know what we’re talking about. (By the way, if you’d googled “mansplaining” like Maselphie suggesting you would learn that what it means – for a man to tell a woman that her experiences as a woman are untrue or invalid.)

I’m just saying what we’re all thinking. You’re making a big deal about a 45 second video and coming off as quite the pompous asshole. I’m happy that you have an extensive vocabulary and all, but maybe you should spend less time with your head in the thesaurus and more time learning how to talk to people, and this is coming from a guy who just called you an asshole.

I am able to respect your opinions on the matter more because you seem to be pretty chill when explaining for the most part.  Unfortunately, as females we are still treated differently.  It may not always be to this extreme, but more often than not we have to work harder for our geek cred.  And God help if the girl is actually pretty, because then she will just be accused of pandering.  While there are some girls who pander, not every pretty girl is.  Just as not every guy in a comic shop acts like that video.

Matthew, neither is this video. Perhaps THAT is our fundamental disagreement. “Get over yourself, guys!” isn’t a philosophical treatise… it’s a JOKE. Of course there is truth in comedy and whatever, but you are giving this video far much more weight than it warrants. “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” is a great analogy. 

“Just ignore anyone trying to argue facts.”

Oh Jill i could just kiss you for this comment… Yes, lets not let something silly like “facts” get in the way of some good old fashion subjective conjecture. Because as we all know the plural of personal experience is emperical evidece. LOL

No ones saying that this has never EVER happened: In fact i’d be insane to say that as comic books fandom spans the entire global demographic, so its bound to happen at some point, to some one.

The problem occours when people try to attribute those properties to everyone within a outgroup & then declare; “this is the default for this entire group” & then scorns people for this being the default, even though its both an unfallsifiable statement, along with being a presuppositional claim.

Moslty it seems to be Expectation Bias combined wiht good old fashion Fundamental Attribution Errors.

Same goes for the logic being used here of “well its obviously happening to someone, so its obviously an issue” (i’m not attributing this quote to anyone specifically). This logic is another form of cognitive bias known as negativity bias: Essentially negativity bias is where negative associations are given greater merit then positive ones. So you can have 5 billion women never have this happen to them, but the import is on the 20 that did have it happen to them.

Once you combine that with the human tendency to be hyperbolic & you suddenly have videos like this one where it paints this as “all men in comic shops obviously do this.”

An thats a problem, because nothing keeps women out of comic shops as much as women telling women that we are keeping them out of comic shops.

~What i’m doing is saying her observation is flawed. Feeling something over a silly misobservation is just fine, sprouting nonsense based on a potentially flawed observation is not~

Why should a man’s observation on the experiences of a woman be privileged over the woman’s own observations? You call it “silly” and “flawed”, but who are *you* to say so? Call it whatever you want; it doesn’t make it untrue.

Why are you making assumptions about her age?

Satire is primarily a literary genre or form, although in practice it can also be found in the graphic and performing arts. In satire, vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, and society itself, into improvement.

Matthew just HAAAAAATES satire.

Thanks for keeping it respectful Silverpixiefly, its good to see some people are capable of proper discourse beyond, “Is so, because i say so.” or “Your opinion is well founded with words i don’t understand, so you must be mansplaining.” Its good to know some people can still read something without inserting a “tone.”

But i would take your statement of “females we are still treated differently” & go one step further by saying “We are all treated differently.” We are all by our nature individuals & as such should be treated as individuals. An nothing shows it as much as this topic.

There is a huge mixed message that comes across, when across the board you hear
A. Oh they all just starred at my boobs
B. They hit on me
C. They didn’t offer to help me
D. They offered to help me, like i didn’t know what i was looking for

An all these statements are passed off as being universal & indicative of the “Comic Consumer Culture” when it comes to women as consumers. It makes me wonder if this is actually the case, or if its a case of it happening to people rarely & is then over blown in female-centric echo chambers until we get videos much like this one, which then adds to the echo chamber in turn.

I personally have never seen the scene depicted in this video happen, but that might be a cultural thing as i’m not American but Australian. Who knows.

Yep i hate Satire, but i do love Soliloquy. Does that help? :D

~”Thanks for keeping it respectful Silverpixiefly, its good to see some people are capable of proper discourse beyond, “Is so, because i say so.”~

Yeah, it’s so frustrating when people do that:

What i’m doing is saying her observation is flawed.

There’s only one group that needs to “get over it” & thats the women who mistake people who look up to see who entered the room, with ostracising stares of terror.

~I personally have never seen the scene depicted in this video happen, but that might be a cultural thing as i’m not American but Australian.~

Because sexism doesn’t exist in Australia…

I think the best one is when the girl in Dorkness Rising enters the shop. Just saying. We need more girls like HER!… And if you haven’t seen Dorkness Rising, shame on you! It’s on you tube.

As is Journey Quest, made by the same people… You should all go watch that to because its amazing.

But… but… Hyperbole! Latin words! The Heisenberg uncertainty principle!

Accept that I am right or I shall write another  extraneous diatribe! Now begone!

Yeah, I’m just going to leave this here.
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/01/04/why-yes-but-is-the-wrong-response-to-misogyny/ 

What, she didn’t like Constantine? ;)

Sleeping with cousins don’t count.

I joke, I joke.

Of course it counts.

You’re link went wonky for me, see if this works for folks instead:

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/01/04/why-yes-but-is-the-wrong-response-to-misogyny/

Coming from the chick who runs the store that this was filmed in…
This discussion wouldn’t be taking place if not for the growing diversity among readers.  I found the video funny, maybe not quite accurate, but still funny in a spoof kinda way.  I’ve had some amazing visits to comic book stores in my lifetime, but also had some degrading visits as well.  Recently I was at the Retailer Summit (for anyone who runs a store) and was asked by three different males “Do you read comics?”  How many men at that summit were asked that question?  I guarantee you none.  So yes, i believe it is a valid complaint to feel less respected based on gender.  I still get asked “do you read comics” almost once a month.  But I can also attest to the progress being made.  The more female readers that come on board the less estranged they will feel. 

Once while working (when I was a wee peon) this goddess of a woman walked in, and the record screeeeched.  When she finally left, the whole store breathed relief, and we started discussing the strange phenomena – not that a chick that hot walked in but our collective reaction.  Even my manager, completely stand up dude who hired me, was totally dumb-founded by his own inability to talk to her.  I’ll admit I myself felt my neck pains from trying not to stare at this spectacular specimen, that it made me realize a chick that hot feels that alienation everywhere she goes.  Just as Chris Hemsworth would feel had he walked in.  (we geeks appreciate a god-like aesthetic, am i right?)

But dudes, don’t take offense to this video, you’re obviously a good guy who doesn’t see why chicks should feel like out-castes.  And to that I raise my glass.

But hey, at least it started a great discussion and gave me a chance to plug my store!  Buy comics at Graham Crackers Comics where we let a chick run a store!!  I’m in Edgewater, come say HI!  5443 N. Broadway!! 

Thank you, thank you, a hundred times thank you! 

Very well stated.  Thank you!

I used to work at a Comic Book Store in college which was more years ago then I would like to think about. Reactions were varied. Mostly guys were just shy and awkward but I’m no hottie. It was also a fairly small college town. 

I don’t collect books anymore because it made me poor but I still like to pick up the occasional trade or wander into the LCS when I travel. Again reactions vary. I think you get more of the fairly negative stereotypical reaction as satirically depicted in smaller shops in smaller towns. Nobody gives a crap who or what you are at Midtown Comics in NYC for example. 

So I would say that the region would matter as much as the sex of the person entering the shop. In some areas it’s more common to see varied clientele than other areas. This might attribute to the disagreement in the comments. 

Nicely put, Shanna. Do you read comics, by the way?

Plug: come to Graham Crackers Comics in St Charles on Sundays and watch me high five all the customers.

Matthew Lane is also welcome, so I can call him a turd to his face.

Here’s another word: “privilege”. When it comes down to it, when you aren’t a member of a particular group, you are not able to offer a reasonably accurate picture of what that group faces in society. Being in that group doesn’t give you carte blanche to speak for every member. But being outside of it it denies you the opportunity to speak from that experience.

Does this happen everywhere, to every woman that walks in a comic book store? No. But there’s enough digital ink spilled – not just on this great blog, but across the web – to understand that the comic industry does have a problem connecting with women as people. Undergrad psych terms don’t negate that real and troubling tendency. If you don’t want to trust the anecdotes, fine, but don’t look at the sales data and conclude that it’s because women need to lighten up.

In lieu of a reply, I would like to yield back the balance of my time to the estimable Mr. Lane, so that he may continue to stick his foot in his mouth.

Nonsense!  Matthew Lane has already proven that this video is objectively not humorous.

Anyone who thinks they laughed at it is wrong.

I worked in a shop for 3 years (granted, one that was more ‘progressive’ in stocking comics/GNs/manga/pop culture toys/apparel but still a comic shop!) and most of the time it was totally chill. There were definitely customers I would make my (male) coworkers deal with at the register because at 18/19 I was uncomfortable (and still am) by being perceived as someone without a head. I also got asked out every so often, which, while generally harmless still unsettled me. 

I try to go to a shop in every city I visit. It isn’t always possible, but what it means is that I’ve been to a variety of shops and I’ve had a variety of experiences, some of which could be characterized by that video (not literally!!). So, yes, I’m comfortable saying that that is a thing that happens. And I’m pretty sure anyone saying that it absolutely doesn’t happen ever get over it pretty much just reinforces my conviction. It doesn’t really matter if a shop is run by women, or staffed by women, either… One woman in a place or owning a place or managing a place doesn’t actually change the reactions of customers at any given time. I know. I’ve been that one woman.

I used to frequent a male dominated comic shop. It was obnoxious. My fiance and I were regulars there and they only really acknowledged him, despite the fact that I was clearly there for the comics. I eventually stopped going in with my fiance and just had him buy my comics.
I was SO happy when a couple of my friends opened their own comic/video
game shop. I was stuck with that other place cuz it was the only LCS
around here. Now I have somewhere where everyone is friendly and will actually converse with me about comic stuff.
I experience the same thing when I go to video game stores, unless the guys I know are working. I always had to deal w/ crap (mainly from customers) when I worked at EB Games, just because I’m a girl.

I have to say that as much as it disappoints me, I actually have witnessed this happening, and have been “friends” with some self-proclaimed geeks that were utter pigs to women, even the ones working the shop!

Often times I had the burning desire to drag one guy I knew outside and punch him extremely hard for the way he treated women, but I am also happy to say that this is by no means the standard.

I have known guys that were pigs in comics shops or who even vocally discriminated against women, but I have also known a ton more guys who were just as happy to talk to a gal about comics as a guy, so to all the women out there who have been offended or disturbed by certain comic store twits in the past, could you give the good ones a chance please? 

(and possibly sock a jerk for me if you encounter one, as I would literally pay money to see that happen sometimes.)

Hey Matthew.
Thank you for your input. What I am about to say I base solely on my own experiences, take it or leave it.
The first time I walked into a comic store I EXPECTED to be treated differently, to feel out of place or for them to think it was weird that I was there. 
What I did experience was a very friendly (male) staff that helped me figure out what it was I wanted. This was wonderful and surprising and made me feel very accepted and helped me become hooked on comics.
Despite this I have also experienced SOME male customers look at me twice when I stepped into the store, and I have experienced clerks telling me that if “he”, as in the obvious male person that I was buying the comic for, didn’t like it I could return it.
As a woman who spends most of her day in a male dominated environment I am fully aware most men treat women like normal people. But I also know that some men can act weird/be afraid of/idolize etc. women. 
I am also aware that as a woman I can never fully grasp what it feels like to be a man. I am aware that as a white person I can never know what it feels like to be a black/asian/african/etc person. As a human being I can never fully grasp what it feels like to be any other given person on this planet. Sometimes I fail, but mostly I make an effort to understand where people are coming from. People are saying stuff happened to them- why would they lie?

People move. Thus the first time I walked into a comic book store in my new city I was 20. Sure the third time they know you, set aside your issues, but your logic is just weird. 
Also I like browsing, searching for issues or stuff I read about online, what is so weird about that?

ts not a case of lying so much as its a case of expectation leading to misobservation which is then repeated in ocations such as this one, which in turn leads to a greater expectation among said group in the future.

Sadly, that doesn’t mean as much as you may think.  Ask the girls if they have ever been harassed or dismissed by customers due to their gender.

Just gonna leave this here: http://www.silverpixiefly.com/2012/01/trials-of-geeky-female.html

Well, thank you so much for explaining to me what would and wouldn’t happen to me, during an incident for which you were not present and in a country and city of which you are unaware. It’s so nice to know which reactions I’m allowed to receive in your expert opinion. I’m sure anything I experienced that contradicted your predictions was just a figment of my imagination. /sarcasm

Did you ever consider that “the only time i ever saw 17+ yearold girls walk into a comic book shop was with their boyfriends” might be because of the staring? That 17+ year old women might not want to be gawked at while they’re shopping?

And you know, even if your magic mindreading skills of those guys in that shop four years were accurate, it doesn’t matter. I felt unwelcome. I left. The shop lost a potential customer.

I’d say the mansplaining is the bigger problem. A normal man might see this video and think, “Gee, now that I know women feel unwelcome, I’ll avoid this sort of ostracizing in the future” and go on to make his local geek community a happier, more equitable place. The mansplainers are seeing this, reading the chorus of agreement in the comments, and rushing to explain that the problem is all in our heads. They’ll most likely go on to make their local geek communities less hospitable to women and their concerns.

Denial of a problem’s existence only compounds the original problem.

I’d say that’s the flip side of the same coin. Unwanted attention is unwanted attention, whether it’s flirting or gawking.

“all the women out there who have been offended or disturbed by certain
comic store twits in the past, could you give the good ones a chance
please? ”

I realize you probably have good intentions, so I am letting you know in a friendly way that you’re coming across as if it’s the fault of women for giving up ‘too soon’, rather than on the twits that drove them away in the first place. If you think about this from a woman’s point of view for a second, you’ll realize that the only way for us to tell the good ones from the twits is by risking encounters with twits, and that it’s a little offensive to ask us to do that for a stranger’s sake.

A woman in a male-dominated field feels mistreated or stereotyped by other men? “It’s the woman’s fault!” Classic approach. Your mother must be proud.

“It’s the woman’s fault!”

Um, if your observation doesn’t match what is actually occuring because you attribute an ulterior motive to an action lacking said ulterior moitve then yes it is “the woman’s fault,” by definition. Its refered to as cognitive bias, a bias in observation performed by the human brain subconsiously.

If we then take a misobservation, an turn it into a cliched hyperbolic video then that becomes so much worse, as it adds to the very expectation bias that those false attributions are based on (when and if they occour).

And of course, in order to determine what is “actually” occurring, we must ask the men, not the women. Women have cognitive biases and make attribution errors. Mens’ perceptions always line up with objective reality, 100%. /sarcasm

Um, in this case yes…. Since its the men who looked up when someone entered the room. The question is did they look up to see who entered the room, or did they look up because, you know; Boobs.

We could always ask the invisible, inaudible, intangible dragon that only i can hear and see, if you prefer your opinion to come from a fictional source. But i don’t see how his observation is any less ridled with exactly the same sort of attribution errors.

Not all nerds no.  But many of them, yes.

@ Matthew Lane:

Mat Elfring was right. You are a turd. The fact you would rather ask an “invisible, inaudible, intangible dragon” instead of taking the word of the several real, live women (and men!) who have stated ad nauseum that Yes! shit like this happens convinces me that you are pile of feces who has somehow learned how to type. Bravo.

Since you probably haven’t been out of the anus for very long, I knidnly tell you that intent isn’t magic. If somebody says that he didn’t to run over your foot with his car, it doesn’t make the bones heal any faster. In this case, even if guys don’t mean to alienate women by acting like sexist pricks, some of us still feel that way. And besides, how are we to even know that isn’t intent, when they refuse to even acknowledge us?

My own personal experience as a sci-fi geek/gamer/collector of classic doctor who target books has been varied. Sometimes, I don’t get a reaction, sometimes I do. One of the most awkward was the time I went to one of the earlier cons in NZ and was lucky enough to meet Colin Baker and Katy Manning (and get photos and sigs!). I remember I was arse deep in the target novelizations, trying to get hold of some I hadn’t yet collected (I got an excellent 10th planet hardcover novelization!), and I turned around, and there were all these guys STARING at me. And then my boyfriend turned up, and they all scurried away. It was almost as bad as the video linked above. I’ve also had the, “buying comics for your boyfriend, love?”, etc, etc. Nope. Buying them for myself, mister!

No one here is saying this has never ever happened, or that it isn’t common.  Just pointing out that we all have anecdotal experiences that conflict with this broadbrush stereotype, which is getting explained away as merely “satire”; describing as such, or using the term “mansplaining,” isn’t a trump card that automatically negates someone’s gripe, or ends discussion.  I, as a transvestite who has encountered negative behavior and attention from women in female-centric stores, would never try to assert such as the norm, even in a joking manner.  It would be inaccurate and unfair.

So, is this video a serious portrayal/discussion of this issue, or is it merely satire that we shouldn’t be offended by?

Listen, you keep saying that women are just misinterpreting the looks they’re given. Do you really think most women have never been looked at in an innocent way and can’t tell the difference? Most people are are around people enough to know when they are and are not being ostracized.

“Do you really think most women have never been looked at in an innocent way and can’t tell the difference?”

Yes. I think that this hasty generalization about women in comic shops has been made so often without merit that it has fed into an expectation bias that particular women have indeed internalised & as a result they see what they expect to see… They then repeat it on websites which again feeds into the expectation bias of other particular women who suffer from the same expectation bias.

An what it boils down to is this. There is no evidence either way that what these specific women say occours actually occours at all. I’m sure it has occured to someone at some point, but i don’t think its nearly as prevelent as people try to make it out to be & there is no evidence either way.

I think a lot of the “oh they oggled me as i walked into a comic shop” are just fictional stories invented by people who have an invested interest in still being able to play the victim, by shaming men. Unfortunately we now live in a time period where very few people will accept personal testimony as evidence for anything, because personal testimony is not evidence of anything. A fun experiment would be to record a comic store for 6 days of operation (wednesday to wednesday) & then let that data speak for itself.

Actually, quite a few people were denying it, that’s why there’s a huge discussion above…

Matthew Lane said:

“… Its essentially an excuse that women who were not comic book
fans used to get out of going to a comic book store with her significant
other.” 
and later said
“There’s only one group that needs to “get over it” & thats the women
who mistake people who look up to see who entered the room, with
ostracising stares of terror.”

which is why I eventually posted, in response to these comments, which were denying and dismissing…

I do however agree with you that it is a broadbrush stereotype that we are slowly getting away from.  one thing that might have helped this “invalid” stereotype is if Kevin Smith hadn’t wiped women out of the first season of Secret Stash and renamed it Comic Book Men…I’d be in a better mood.

This happens to me quite often, obviously in a less spoofy/comedic way. When looking at comics I even have guys say “I’m sorry, madame…” or “Excuse me Milady” as they walk in front of me, along with other unnecessary things (Resisting the urge to make a list). They don’t even say ‘Sorry’ to guys they pass. It’s just really awkward when you have severe anxiety and you just want comics with no social interaction.